 Poster: A snowHead
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Firstly, let me say that I'm fully in favour of getting proper lessons by instructors on the mountain. However, I only really get to go once or twice a year so I'm wondering if there are any decent books out there on skiing technique that might useful to read through in between actual skiing time ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Skier's Edge, by Ron Le Master
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just been looking at a few reviews on Amazon. This book doesn't seem to touch on carving technique much. Any thoughts ? Obviously, carving on steep black slopes is more difficult anyway so you are more likely to use skidding technique but...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| The Skier's Edge, by Ron Le Master |
I like that one, although it does seem more suited to experienced skiers. I also like the DVDs by Phil Smith.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Obviously, carving on steep black slopes is more difficult anyway so you are more likely to use skidding technique
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absolutely. Does anyone carve on "steep black slopes"?? Most of us recreational skiers struggle to carve a whole turn on an easy red slope and we need to learn to do it on easy blues. Have you seen those guys on the videos hopping down the couloirs? Carving isn't everything but it's certainly dealt with in Le Master's book, which is heavily illustrated by pictures of the best skiers in the world (ie those that get fastest down the slope and through the gates) with their skis edges at impressive angles. Around tight gates there's a lot of turning the skis with the leg going on too. The first of the Warren Smith Ski Academy videos has some good things on starting to carve turns, but also on the importance of other methods of steering the skis more rapidly, essential on steeper slopes. That's what I've been trying to work on recently; independent leg steering and what I think the French call "braquage", swivelling the skis. This is given useful attention in the Ski Academy video and Phil Smith's Ultimate Control video too. Did I say carving isn't everything? I watched an ESF instructor hopping down an unpisted and mogulley black run last week, with his lone pupil struggling along behind. Supreme control, made it look easy, graceful, relaxed. All the time in the world to make the turn, no rush. A million miles from "carving".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Anybody can be an expert skier volume 1 and 2, by Harald Harb. Books come with a dvd. Or essentials of skiing.http://www.amazon.co.uk/Harald-Harbs-Essentials-Skiing-Fastest/dp/1578262178/sr=1-2/qid=1171196920/ref=sr_1_2/026-2272513-9119630?ie=UTF8&s=books&tag=amz07b-21
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jimmjimm,
You may find Easiski or WTFH having words with you shortly.
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| T Bar wrote: |
jimmjimm,
You may find Easiski or WTFH having words with you shortly. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The one Fastman has not gotten around to writing yet  (I'll get him to do it somehow)
although I think he has given up writing his long treatises atm... for various reasons... but any of the stuff he has already written is quite good.. nice simple language
If you want a carving one many folks seem to like "skiing and the art of carving" by ellen post foster (I think i have that right)
The skiers edge - as suggested by Pam is very good - very technical...
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GordonFreeman, Have a look at "All Terrain Skiing" by Dan Egan and his OH. It's all common sense stuff and has got some useful exercises to help you understand the effects of terrain and gravity. There's not a load of stuff about perfect carving technique, but as I mentioned t'other day, perfect carving is just one small bit of skiing the whole mountain. And once the techniques described by Dan Egan have been learned then you don't even need to think about carving - it's all arrived at through hip angulation, upper body positioning, and so on. Lessons in just carving won't get you through moguls, down couloirs, and so on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have read one of of the Harold Harb books - "Anyone can be an expert skier" - and it definitely helped my skiing.
My only comment would be that he takes an entire book to explain a pretty simple concept/technique ... what he calls the "phantom move". It's a trick that does seem to work (for me at least), but I'm sure this could have been explained in a few paragraphs, rather than a whole book.
Also, I was a little thrown by his advice to keep you feet close-together ... as this seems to conlict with what I have been taught when taking lessons, about keeping your feet wider  .
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Distance between feet surely depends on what you're skiing - for stability when carving or at speed on the piste then shoulder width apart, but if doing short radius turns or jump turns down the steeps then the lateral distance between your feet will need to be smaller and the vertical distance greater (with a wide lateral distance then the vertical distance because of the slope becomes too great), or in moguls then they need to be closer together as your feet need to be taking the same line.
. jonflat2, what's the "phantom move"? Can you elaborate a bit on what HH says?
Cheers.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
jonflat2, what's the "phantom move"? Can you elaborate a bit on what HH says?
Cheers. |
- think I've just found out myself - slighly lift the tail of the outside (new inside) ski to unweight it while tipping it from big toe to small to inititate the next turn. Please let me know if this isn't the case.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Don't know if it's the same thing but on a recent lesson I was reminded of keeping skis close together and when turning (sliding turning) to tip the new inside ski on the front therefore initiating the next turn. Same thing?
I've also had a lesson before with an exercise holding a wooly hat between my knees and not dropping it. This is how close your feet are supposed to be.
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Poster: A snowHead
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petemillis, that's pretty much it. I have to say it seems to work, - by concentrating on tilting the inside ski, it does seem (to me at least) to bring your weighted ski on to it's inside edge, which helps me to carve cleaner arcs.
However, from my memory of the book, Harb seems to be saying that your feet should be close together nearly all the time, and also that pretty much all your weight should be on your outside ski all the time. Now, it may be that I'm not remembering all the details of the book correctly, but as you quite rightly say, shouldn't the terrain should be dictating how far apart my skis are, and also how my weight is distributed?
I'm confused...!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GordonFreeman, sorry. Didn't mean to ignore your last post - was typing as your least message went up!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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jonflat2, Here's an interesting PSIA thread where they're discussing stance and Harb
http://www.psia.org/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=56&posts=1&start=1
I think people often get confused by the stance thing.
If you watch someone carving fast and with lots of tilt on the skis and lots of lean, it can look like they have a very wide stance but, in reality, their legs are still close together (i.e. no wider than hip width apart). The appearance of an exceptionally wide stance is to do with the angle that the skiers legs are to the snow - from the skier's perspective, their legs are still quite close together but one leg is a lot higher than the other (i.e. inside leg bent, outside leg straight, and with the inside ski perhaps alongside the outside knee or higher). And when people try to emulate this at a much lower speed, they end up spreading their legs beyond hip width apart to get a big distance between the skis (as that's what you see when someone is leaning a lot).
But at slow speeds, the angle of lean relative to the snow is less - you still keep your feet hip width apart, and the outside leg will still be straighter than the inside leg, but the inside leg is less bent than in the high speed turns. The inside ski now is perhaps only at the height of the outside ankle or shin, so the distance between skis is smaller - thus giving the illusion of a narrower stance. If you are spreading your legs a bit to keep the skis further apart, then your legs are wider than hip width apart and this is perhaps why you are told to narrow your stance more.
The problem when you start putting legs wider than hip width apart is that the natural movement of the legs, knees, hips and waist becomes inhibited. Try running along with your legs apart and you'll see what I mean. I think this is possibly what Harb is trying to get at when he says to use a narrower stance.
In the same way as angle of lean will affect position of one ski relative to the other, then so will steepness of slope.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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petemillis, makes sense, and a good link. Thanks
GordonFreeman, I have to say, the narrow stance advocated in Harb's book put me off at first, it seemed a bit old fashioned - but there's definitely some good stuff in there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
but there's definitely some good stuff in there.
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and some not so good. e.g. telling you that if any instructor talks to you about twisting your skis actively (as opposed to just putting them on their edges) you should run away immediately.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w: yep, definitely a case of cherry picking the good bits. But, that's probably the case for most books.
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| T Bar wrote: |
jimmjimm,
You may find Easiski or WTFH having words with you shortly. |
I guess it's a case of: "Everyone must eat chocolate nut ice cream, even if you're allergic to nuts, cause any other ice cream is fake" versus "There are lots of flavours of ice cream out there, grab a spoon and enjoy the differences!"
Allegedly Mr Harb's new book, "The Essentials of Skiing" is quite good. But I'd suggest that you read it with balance - such as Ron LeMaster's book as mentioned above, and do your best to find the signal through the noise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| hellfiresliding wrote: |
GordonFreeman,
I've found 'The all mountain skier' by R.Mark.Elling very good.
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Second vote for this. There was a copy at the chalet at which we were staying. I read through a few sections in detail, and skimmed the rest. I'm definitely going to get a copy. What I like about it is the analytical detail, and the step-by-step, meticulous approach. There are loads of drills in there for improving technique. I also liked the (apparent) lack of gimmicks (eg. "Adopt my new half-folded stance and you'll improve x3 within 15 minutes" etc). It seems to be just good technique, broken down. Lots of the situations described I recognised (like arc shapes of turns, and what it says about your skiing).
And a good bit cheaper than many of the other options, too! One downside is that it's a bit dry (... another way of saying "it's analytical"), so you have to be committed to it. If you're of that mindset you'll enjoy it. The other downside is the lack of photos. There are some, but not copious, and some drawings, which convey the information, but aren't terribly pretty. You won't be wowed by the look of the book, but the information is great.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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On the Book theme.....as anyone seen Jimmy Oden's book 'Freeskiing'?
www.freeskiing.nu
Looks great but I'd like to see a real one before buying. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hellfiresliding, I've got Freeskiing - it's an excellent book. Great photos and illustrations and explains a lot of avalanche theory / mountain safety in easy to understand language. It's quite expensive but worth it I think.
WRT instruction books - Go Ski by Warren Smith is worth looking at, especially if you read it in conjunction with his DVDs
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You know it makes sense.
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| BGA wrote: |
| WRT instruction books - Go Ski by Warren Smith is worth looking at, especially if you read it in conjunction with his DVDs |
Go Ski by Warren Smith is available online from Waterstones ->
http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/navigate.do?ctx=100272017330767
The book comes with a 30 min instructional DVD and the price has been reduced to £7.09. P&P is free if you have it delivered to your local Waterstones.
Also available at Waterstones (online) is Go Snowboard by Neil McNab This has been reduced to £6.79 and also includes a 30 min instructional DVD. The same P&P deal applies.
Both books cover the basics / fundamentals of each sport.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Legal Steve wrote: |
| hellfiresliding wrote: |
GordonFreeman,
I've found 'The all mountain skier' by R.Mark.Elling very good.
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Second vote for this. |
Third vote for this! Just as Steve tells it.
Have read it and also got the first of the DVDs that was produced later to accompany it. Both quite useful for fundamentals, for powder and for moguls. A bit old style generally though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Core Performance by Mark Verstegen
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| comprex wrote: |
| Core Performance by Mark Verstegen |
Which one comprex?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, it's an excellent book, though, as slikedges says, a little dated. But allowing for that, probably the best skiing book I have read in 20 years
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PhillipStanton, the red and white one.
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FAQ
