 Poster: A snowHead
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Where can I find the steepest pistes in Europe? I'm looking to work on my steep technique this season. I know I can find plenty of outrageous stuff off piste but I often ski on my own so I'd like to minimize the danger factor. So far the steepest pistes I've encountered have been in Les Deux Alpes. Skied Kitzbuehel, Verbier and Cortina last season and there wasn't much challenging piste action at all, although Verbier does have plenty of silly off piste. Thanks y'all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You might like to try the Chavanette piste above Champousin, accessed from Avoriaz. Also known as the Swiss Wall it's part of the PdS domain and is one of the steepest pistes I know. It's left unpisted and the moguls get very large, often closed because it's too dangerous in bad (icy) weather, less difficult after a fresh snowfall.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Go ski La Grave. The main runs are pistes, in the sense that they're the primary routes down the mountain, but they're not marked, groomed or patrolled. It's a fabulous area if you're after steep challenging stamina-building terrain.
If you're up to skiing with the top ski school classes, go to St Anton where the best classes are off piste all day (so cheaper than using guides). A good test is the first pitch off the Valluga summit, which is accessed by a tiny cablecar that only admits skiers with guides or instructors.
Have fun!
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brian
brian
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Courchevel has 3 couloirs, 1 officially a piste and the other 2 marked itineraries. They're all safe enough to ski on your own and accessed easily from the Saulire cable car. It has other not especially steep but excellent black runs, Suisses, Chanrossa, etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Of those mentioned I've skied the Valluga, one of the Courcheval couloirs and the Chavanette. They're all pretty steep.
As David mentions the Valluga is only accessible with a guide so it's not the sort of run you'll be able to do lots of times. Also the steep part isn't particularly long so it might not be what you're after. There's other steep stuff in St Anton though which should keep you busy.
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I tend to agree with the runs suggested apart from La Grave - you would be safer off-piste in other resorts than exploring La Grave. Although Chavenette (the Swiss Wall) is the famous run in Avoriaz it is only the top that is particularly steep, what makes it a challenge, apart from the ruts caused by people too scared to turn, is that it is South facing so melts in the afternoon and freezes overnight to become solid ice. A better choice in Avoriaz might be the Combe du Machon that keeps its snow and is uniformly and unremitingly steep.
The trouble with most steep pistes is they soon become heavily moguled (I used to love moguls but not now my knees are shot). For unmoguled steeps you will have to venture off-piste. Incidentely I remember Tortin and Mont Fort in Verbier as being quite steep, but it was a long time ago.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry 
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No need to be sorry, happens to the best of us 
Don't let my fastidiousness (is that a word?) put you off!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mont Gele in Verbier has some nice steep bits - not sure if they are on piste or off; Super St Bernard just up the road from there has two nice bowls that go as steep as you want to, they also have few rocks below so a fall isn't too bad, its all off piste (just about), and no queues!
I would agree that 2 Alpes has a reasonable number of steep pistes - super diable, la fee, grand couloir etc, not really skiied a resort that has the same proportion of steep blacks as it has.
Further afield, Whistler has lots of steep stuff, couloirs etc, lots of them are marked piste (double black diamond) despite being almost extreme off piste by euro standards.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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G-Rock, were you disappointed by Mont Fort, keeping right? I think thats the steepest piste I have skied, blue ice on the downslope of every mogul, 2 deaths in the week I was there. Grand Montets in Chamonix has some pretty steep stuff, Zermatt has some gunbarrel blacks and the Triftji mogul fiield. Best is to get skilled on the less steep in good snow and then the real steeps seem less scary.
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Thanks for all the replies. Martin, totally agree with the idea of preparing in good snow, steep pistes do seem to get moguled and icy very quickly. I skied Mont Fort twice in pretty bad visibility so didn't tackle that steep wall you're talking about. I remember the bumps being monstrous though. Ouch. 2 deaths?! Was that last season? Avalanche or horrible long falls?
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You know it makes sense.
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G-Rock, It was 1989, a snow drought year, and the rocks did the damage for the two unfortunates. Needless to say we didn't go down it twice!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Try the Flypaper at Glen Coe in Scotland. Its 30 degrees. More info and pics at
http://www.snowspots.org/index.php/Fly_Paper
Which, by the way is dedicated to building up portraits of great pistes, runs and spots. It's a wiki, so people are free to add and edit. So if you can portray your favourite steeps, do paint a picture.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've skied La Grave a few times, but nothing terrifying. I have stood and looked at skiers negotiating Triffide 1 with varying degrees of success. The ones who tried to walk back out did not look happy. I'm looking forward to reading Tears in the Snow, thanks for that. But my original question about looking for steep pistes is not because I want the thrill of steep fear. I've skied a couple of relatively steep things, the Electric Couloir in 2Alpes, and the descent to St Christoph so I know what it's like to be standing at the top of something with legs like jelly. What I want is steep pistes that are easily accessed so I can practice on them all day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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G-Rock, it might be a bit short or not steep enough for you but the World Cup Slalom course at Wengen Switzerland may just work for you steepest section 30-36 degrees verticle drop 190M over a distance of 644M as of this winter a high speed quad chair will take you from the bottom back to the start, mornings tend to be very quiet and icy with no ques at the chairlift. I would guess you could do about 6 runs an hour more technical info on the official Lauberhorn web site at http://www.lauberhorn.ch/ choose tech. daten. and then slalom for a graphic of the course, the left hand side of the piste as you come down is the steepest side, watch out for the hazzard part way down marked with yellow and black poles if the snow is not too deep, also be aware of out of control skiers coming from the left at the end of the course as this is where the downhill race course joins. Obviously avoid the 2 weeks befor teh race as the course will be closed or being repaired and so on, best time is the last week of Jan first week of Feb
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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One slope that is fairly steep and never moguled if the tongue of the glacier at Tignes. I spent one morning doing it over and over again getting used to some new boots. It is easily accessed from the chair lift that starts by the Tignes funicular. If the snow cover is thin the exit back to the piste can be tricky though.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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go harakiri!. In mayrhofen i went in december 2009 and i think it was closed then. But it is very steep! 78% 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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nice bump!
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I'm new here, and I've noticed that some of the moderators are asking newer members not to post in old threads (over a few months old). I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind that. I can't think of a reason why that would be a bad thing.
I frequent a few other aquarium related forums, and I've never heard of this rule before. I often post in older threads if I can add something useful. I even encourage other members to post in older threads if they can add useful information, or updated information. I believe it helps to keep all of the information in one place, rather than having to start a new thread, or not posting at all. A thread does not exist only for the person who started it and asked the question originally, it exists for all of the people who will read it in the future.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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II, what's the steepest aquarium?
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I agree with all of the above, with the exception of La Grave, (not yet had the opportunity).
My favourites are Triftji bumps (Zermatt), Swiss Wall (Avoriaz), Mont Gele (Verbier, probably my favourite), Mont Fort (Verbier), top of Vallon D'Arby (Verbier). couloirs on Col Du Vez (Nendaz), Streif (Kitzbuhel), Valluga (St Anton), Riffelscharte 2 (Rendl, St Anton), and some pretty awesome ones but dont know the names in Tignes down over Le Lac.
On my list are couloirs below Schindler entry at St Anton, Maroispitze at St Anton, Mehlsack (heliski access only only in Zurs), Schimmelegg (St Anton), and many others!!....................take a guide to some of the above, as required by snow conditions, gradient, time of day, wind etc.
Great stuff 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Forgot - Kandahar at St Anton (and variants off it) first run down when 15-20cm new powder it has to be one of the best...............also compromised a bit though at peak times with big crowds and when its hard-packed, also Argentiere black on Grands Montets (and also off-piste to the right, but be careful of cravasses).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Doesnt Harakiri at Mayrhofen claim to be the steepest pisted run?
Wouldn't exactly consider it overly difficult though as it was well groomed when I did it so didn't have the added difficulty of bumps which was the main challenge in getting down the Swiss Wall.
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II, I'm also new and for some bizarre reason I was googling steepest pistes in Europe and it threw up a forum thread so interesting I simply had to register to post in it.
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, welcome to snowHeads
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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May be we should classify a steep piste as "groomed" or "ungroomed".
The Harakiri run in Mayrhofen of Austria claims to be the steepest in Austria. It is a groomed piste. The 78% gradient is 78 units vertical against 100 units horizontal making it 37,9 degrees.
This is an important bench mark as Harakiri can only be groomed when attached to a steel cable on a winch. This means we should not expect a groomed piste much steeper than 37.9 degree because the snow bashing machine may not be stable beyond such gradient.
In a way if we compare steep "groomed" piste then there is a limit of around 38 degree. Beyond which the gradient can be steeper if the piste is not groomed.
The American resorts operate single and double black diamond black runs. The steepest has "e" and "x" printed inside the double black diamond. It appears the standard is not uniform but those stated in say Winter Park the extreme double diamond black piste is reserved for "Extreme terrain contains cliffs,very steep slopes (50 degrees or greater) as well as rock or other hazards".
The double diamonds black piste without the "extreme" insignia features widely in the North American resorts and are rarely groomed. The standard is also not uniform but those printed in Aspen Highland generally have between 40 to 45 degree gradients. The runs in Aspen Highland have killed several skiers causing the part of the mountain shut down for a number of years.
In Summary
A groomed piste is not expected to be steeper than 38 degree.
Ungroomed double black diamond black piste may go up to 40 to 45 degree.
Double diamond black with "extreme" insignia is reserved for 50 degrees and greater.
For off piste the gradient can be anything but then we are no longer talking about a recognised piste.
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Poster: A snowHead
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G-Rock, pistas 2 & 3 in the Espace San Bernardo (La Rosiere & La Thuile ski area) are both 38 degress, as they are both in trees they can get very icy at times, I've never seen moguls on them as I guess they don't get enough traffic.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ischgl has some of the best steep, groomed, non-mogulled pistes if that's what you're after.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Steepest routes (marked, avi protected, not groomed) I've seen/skied are the 'extreme ski routes' down the couloirs from the top of Nordkette (little ski area above Innsbruck). They're reported to be between 40-50 degrees, and certainly the entrance pitch of teh one under the cable car (Hafelecar I think) is seriously steep and narrow (most people cut around a short offpiste section to enter lower down, I've only dropped in once form the very top). Steep enough that in non-'elf n safety' Austria they have a signpost at teh lift warning that a fall = danger to life. Helluva lot steeper than the 'extreme' (lol) offpiste route that is the (actual) Hahnenkamm race route in Kitzbuhel, for instance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Tigger wrote: |
There's always the Flying K in Les Arcs, but if they catch you doing anything other than straight lining it you'll be in trouble! |
There are also some ungroomed but marked pistes off Varet where they don't mind if you make turns.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Steepest routes (marked, avi protected, not groomed) I've seen/skied are the 'extreme ski routes' down the couloirs from the top of Nordkette (little ski area above Innsbruck). They're reported to be between 40-50 degrees, and certainly the entrance pitch of teh one under the cable car (Hafelecar I think) is seriously steep and narrow (most people cut around a short offpiste section to enter lower down, I've only dropped in once form the very top). Steep enough that in non-'elf n safety' Austria they have a signpost at teh lift warning that a fall = danger to life. Helluva lot steeper than the 'extreme' (lol) offpiste route that is the (actual) Hahnenkamm race route in Kitzbuhel, for instance. |
Totally agree - great, under-rated steep-skiing area. Here is a photo (taken by a friend of mine who lives in Innsbruck) that shows it very well:
http://www.biglines.com/image/seegrube
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nordkette sounds fun, must take my kit when in Innsbruck!
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Helluva lot steeper than the 'extreme' (lol) offpiste route that is the (actual) Hahnenkamm race route in Kitzbuhel, for instance.
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Downhill courses don't tend to be that steep, remember that once you're started, you're coming into steeper pitches already doing 70+ mph. That tends to put rather a different complexion on "steep".
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I've not done any of the above except Grand Montets in Cham which is great for the amont of steeps in one place, however the steepest marked route I think I've done is the tunnel at ADH. Not very long before it actually goes uphill but was wondering how many degrees that is?
Just like to add I managed to do it on the opening day in perfect powder, and find it sad that after the opening week it is a field of moguls for the rest of the season! 
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| SussexSnow wrote: |
Try the Flypaper at Glen Coe in Scotland. Its 30 degrees. More info and pics at
http://www.snowspots.org/index.php/Fly_Paper
Which, by the way is dedicated to building up portraits of great pistes, runs and spots. It's a wiki, so people are free to add and edit. So if you can portray your favourite steeps, do paint a picture. |
Its about 38-40degrees at the steepest (measured). I certainly havn't come across anything steeper on piste anywhere else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Another vote for the Flypaper at Glencoe - reputed to be one the steeper marked black runs in Europe.
Short (300m vertical) but vicious (40 degrees). Too steep for the piste machine.
Here is an early season, low tide, photo. In a good year the rocks and cliffs are covered.
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FAQ
I've taken the liberty of deleting 2 of your treble postitis 
