 Poster: A snowHead
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Ever shrinking glaciers, packed with ski clubs training, racers looking at you as if you don't belong there... know the feeling?
This report (in French) on the death of a 26 year old Swiss man who, according to the report, was standing with another skier when struck at speed by a young 19 year old Frenchman, in Zermatt (Petit Cervin) for a race training camp. The local secouristes were unable to prevent the victim from dying from his injuries at the site of the accident. The gravely injured French skier was taken to hospital by helicopter.
An enquiry has been opened to establish the circumstances of the accident.
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The race training corridors themselves are often crammed into far too small a space. On the Tignes glacier at the end of August, it struck me how poorly organised the admin was. Runs are booked in advance, then the courses are set by the coaches on a first come first served basis - no official checks whether they are too close together or not. All you get is trainers from various countries haranguing each other, to little effect. Eventually, mid- to late morning you get someone from admin who checks that no one is there who shouldn't be.
Ok, the skill level is such that most skiers can turn on a sixpence, and to a point I feel safer with racers speeding past than on most resort pistes at the start of the season, surrounded by 'bombers'. Still when an accident happens, as with Régine Cavagnoud, it's often very serious....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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High speed collisions on race courses are a very serious and known risk. One example was an FIS official some years ago who wandered into the middle of the race course and was hit.
Certainly a very high level of discipline is needed, with obvious indication of where you can and can't go. This is so serious it probably needs legislation, because the responsibilities can be easily and fairly defined.
From your description, PG, it's possible that this man was standing in an approved location at the side of the course and the racer strayed out of control. Of course, that risk occurs at the side of motor rally courses, where spectators are sometimes hit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And then this happens.... not summer down under of course, but it makes you reflect on the dangers of race training.
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A highly ranked 18-year-old American skier is dead after a high-speed accident at Treble Cone Ski Area yesterday.
Eric Nageotte, from South Lake Tahoe in California, was in Wanaka attending a freestyle skiing camp as part of a graduation present from his parents.
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"I don't think he had ever skied that run before. Eric was a really strong skier but these kids get so powerful and sometimes they think they are invincible."
An eye witness who was the first on the scene said Mr Nageotte came hurtling down the mountain and disappeared into a creekbed at the intersection of the Mid Wave and lower Main Street runs.
"He was really flying. I saw a black silhouette out of the corner of my eye and then he vanished into the stream," said the witness, who is on holiday from Auckland and wished to be identified only as Mike.
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DG, I don't know how courses are set at this particular location in Zermatt, but on the 2 Alpes and Tignes glaciers they cover a broad expanse of the designated areas, with no separations - in fact they 'interlock', with gates on parallel courses barely 4 or 5 metres apart in places. It's impossible to stand between individual courses, only at the outside edges of a group of runs. Skiers have to... or should ... stagger their starts, because if a mistake is made they invariably get close to or cross into the neighbouring run.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does that link work OK ? I have found loads of what look like good stories in the Otago Daily Times but I always get Internal Server Error. Emailed them to tell them but no better.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I suspect the Otago Daily Times is still using hot metal. A very elusive website indeed!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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looks like you can't link directly however you will find the story by going to their front page and selecting the general news stories
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Having run training camps on several european glaciers, I can confirm the fact that the lanes are not as wide as they could be.
The set of courses is dictated by the first coach to set and those who follow will usually shadow the first course, this being the safest way to avoid racers skiing toward each other.
Common sense usually prevails but, as with any sport involving an element of danger, accidents will always occur. The training groups and coaches usually work together to minimise te risks.
Unfortunately, some members of the general skiing public and those with no common sense will always try to ski in the courses or across the designated training area.
My opinion of these people is that they obviously have no sense of self preservation and if myself, or one of my trainees was injured due to one of these idiots, I would have no hesitation in pursuing them through legal channels.
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That's great, but are these courses physically taped off with "danger, high speed skiers. Do not cross this tape" signs in three languages?
People probably stray on to race courses because they think there's nothing happening, or they don't realise how quickly they can be hit. Isn't it necessary to have stewards on walkie-talkies down the course to keep people off the course?
It may sound O.T.T. but we're not always dealing with idiots. If holidaymakers are known to traverse race courses because they really don't know what's involved, then the 'idiots' are those in charge of the race not taking sufficient protective action, surely?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, speaking as someone who has helped out with the DHO races we always have the course cordoned off, marshals with walkie talkies at regular spots and several spare personel in case of emergencies.
Unfortunately we still get people dodging past barriers and people which can make it very dangerous 
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philbski1, the fact is that as things stand the general public is entitled to ski across designated training areas on the glaciers in many cases. They are not roped off, or marked "closed".
I would think you would stand a better chance of gaining redress, should a racer/trainer be injured, by taking the resort to court for not making the area safe in the first place!
As for coaches cooperating, within limits that's quite correct. That said, the Italian and French spent most of their time insulting each other in the neighbouring courses to ours last week. Italian youngsters regularly did course inspections shadowing their run, but skiing into our racing line. There were a couple of near misses.
[edit] have just seen DG's comments which sums it up nicely....
DGO, we're not talking about races as such, but race training - especially in the case of glaciers the areas concerned are rarely cordoned off...
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Wed 8-09-04 14:27; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds completely mad. Maybe this glacier training shouldn't be done at all if it exposes kids to a foreseeable risk of that magnitude.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You can get an idea of the problem here.... The GS courses are not mixed with the slalom courses, but all the same they are very close together. Unfortunately you can't see the gates to the left of the stubbies run in the photo, closer than the gates to the right.
The 2nd gate (red stubbies) shadows the blue GS gate to the right. So in theory racers are not on a collision course at any point - unless a mistake is made, or some daydreamer wanders across.
Altogether at this point there were some 20 parallel courses stretching across the glacier.
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PG, yes I realised that, but seeing as the DHO races are carried out on a regular piste that has been cordoned off, it seemed a reasonably close comparison, there will always be people who do not take any notice of the safety precautions
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You know it makes sense.
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D G Orf, Yes there can be close calls at races too. That said, the majority of the course is usually not cordoned off, except in major competitions - just the piste entrance and arrival zone usually. Off piste skiers/boarders can and do intrude regularly, some seem both oblivious to the presence of gates and deaf to the shouts of gate-keepers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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PG,
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That said, the majority of the course is usually not cordoned off, except in major competitions - just the piste entrance and arrival zone usually
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which is usually what happens at the DHO races, with the addition of crew at any side pistes, some people will always take no notice of safety, they are usually the ones tearing down blue runs or sitting down having a sandwich just below a jump
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Poster: A snowHead
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PG, and David Goldsmith, I use the word idiots to describe the people that ski across race training pistes as common sense and self preservation dictates that this is not a sensible thing to do, much in the same way that whilst it may be possible to cross a busy dual carraigeway, it is not sensible to do so.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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philbski1, Yes, the onus is on the skier to use a minimum of common sense when practising this dangerous sport. Still, novices are allowed on the slopes, and if they find themselves in a race training area that has not been closed off they cannot be 100% responsible for any accident that may ensue. The slopes are there for all to enjoy, and resorts should be obliged to ensure race training areas are properly marked as closed.
In my experience, this happens extremely rarely.
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