 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are you due to go sking in the next 10 days?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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kosciosco, My 2p is this:
Weather's weather. Snow will come when snow comes. Nature is just un-predictable and the season is far from over. I detest all the scare-mongering which the media and all the depressants try and produce and take it all with a pinch of salt.
kosciosco, I'm with you on this one 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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kosciosco, it has been reported on other threads that over 2400 metres the conditions are normal and average for this time of year
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Well, my local slope, Jarjatte, has opened for a week and then closed. When the snow arrives again, it will re open. Only 4 drag lifts, good for beginners and practice.
Devoluy is about 40 minutes away, but had relied on artificial snow. As I had friends over last week, we tried Orcieres, north of Gap, for the first time. Slightly slushy at the bottom, but excellent further up.
Is the season over? No, but I can empathise for those who are stuck with their one ski holiday for the year!
No one here is panicking, but they do have the luxury of choosing when to go.
(and the locals tell me there's more snow due next week. Nothing to do with local knowledge, I think they all have Canal satellite...)
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Whats all this with the season's over rubbish - to be honest.... Its just not started!
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PatMan, welcome to snowheads, i have had two great weeks so far and had 30cm of fresh snow on 9 december for the first day of the season. peeps need to mek the best of what they get and remember that a day skiing beats a day in the office......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Skimottaret , ta for the welcome!- a day skiing beats a WEEK in the office!!
Surely everyone must know that booking early (earlyish) always has an element of risk - thats why the Christmas/New Year crowd do it!
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I'm pretty mellow as I'm not going to St Anton till March. However I have every sympathy for those going to Les Gets/ andorra etc in the next week or so. From my persepctive I am confident there will be a couple of major dumps between now and March. Hoever if you are going next week and have one week's skiing a year you may have reason to be upset. a little compassion
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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kosciosco, Im trying- i find all this hysteria quite tiresome!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Please, someone, anyone, introduce a more measured, calm, detached view of the situation
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Well, to be fair, there are far more posts looking objectively at the meteorology for the next couple of weeks (with cautious optimism at the moment), or reporting factually on the poor conditions at some resorts, than those intensely irritating "winter 2006/7 cancelled" efforts. Factual reports of good, or bad, conditions, and weather forecasting based on an intelligent interpretation of the models, can only be helpful. If somebody's only week in the snow has been disappointing because of the mild weather, they are entitled to a moan. Moaning about the present is OK; moaning about a baseless vision of the entire season being the same, is not OK. Of course, if it does turn out to be a rubbish season (and rubbish seasons happen now and then) all the doom mongers will be saying "we told you so". But if it turns out OK, or even very good in parts, they'll be lying low. 
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brian
brian
Guest
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| pam w wrote: |
| [ Moaning about the present is OK; moaning about a baseless vision of the entire season being the same, is not OK. |
.... and moaning that worst case AGW predictions have arrived already and the alpine skiing industry will be on its knees by April is even less OK
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You know it makes sense.
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Well I'm of to La Clusaz in 10 ays time so there better be some decent stuff left. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| kosciosco wrote: |
What is going on here?
There seem to be a lot of people panicking about the lack of snow. I fully accept that it has been a fairly dismal start to the season and that the abnormally (soon to be more normal, perhaps) warmer weather is a problem
BUT
Its only mid January
If I read the phrase "The season's all over" once more I'll flip my lid!
Please, someone, anyone, introduce a more measured, calm, detached view of the situation, before everyone starts cancelling trips right, left and centre!
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We are nearly 50% of the way through the traditional 8-month Oct-to-May Alpine season, and snowdepths remain way below-average almost everywhere.
Natural snowfall has been limited.
Temps have been high.
Therefore, you should expect to hear relatively downbeat commentary.
We will be into the second half of the season in just a couple weeks' time (Feb).
Within just 6 to 7 weeks from now (end-Feb / early-Mar), we will have passed the peak of the season.
In short, people are right to be less than happy about the season so far. It has to-date been relatively poor.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Bah.
The season's over. In fact, it's the end of european snowsports as we know it. It'll never snow again. And if it does, it'll be the wrong sort.
It's an American plot, next part of their world domination plan.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whitegold, 8 month alpine season? crikey but you are an optimist!
But yes, while you are IMHO correct in that it has been relatively poor, the true conditions have not been reflected in much of the media coverage, and a bundle of outrageously pessimistic posts here and elsewhere.
So we should be endeavouring to keep a sense of perspective on what's being said.
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well,Im of to st anton nkt sunday and have not started to panic just yet,...But my daughter and co have just spent all their hard earned cash on a lovely week in soll and as we type are crying in their beer in a snowless resort with green fields to lookat in the morning,so please do have a little think about what we type so as not to upset all those out on holiday right now....picking daisys and chasing goats.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm going skiing tomorrow, its pissing rain, the wind is currently about 118mph where I'm going, and the road to the ski area contains a newly formed ford with 18inches of fast flowing river and no the season isn't over it, far from it.
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A week ago i would have got wound up by whitegold's pessimism and posted to that effect. But being out here in austria and seeing just how bad it is (don't trust strategically placed web cams) i share some of his views. The locals i have spoken to cannot remember it being quite so thin. Without snow machines i doubt a single slope here in saalbach would be open, and it's been too warm for canons today and the sun was melting the snow as you watched it. In this piece of austria at least it has been a very poor start to the season. That's all it is a bad start to one season. But a very bad one.
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I went to Flaine for xmas 1987 with school for my first holiday. We had no snow at all, and i remember skiing over grass on the lower slopes. But i have had many, many seasons of really good snow since, a few poor ones here and there, but mostly good.
It's "swings and roundabouts" and we can only cross our fingers for the rest of the season.
I'm off to La Plagne on Friday and will ski all day, every day.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Whitegold, 8 month alpine season? crikey but you are an optimist!
But yes, while you are IMHO correct in that it has been relatively poor, the true conditions have not been reflected in much of the media coverage, and a bundle of outrageously pessimistic posts here and elsewhere.
So we should be endeavouring to keep a sense of perspective on what's being said. |
8 months is the total period when snowfall should be expected in the Alps. Oct to Feb builds up the base. Mar to May is when it melts away.
The media have been mostly correct in their reports about conditions.
On balance, snowdepths are way below-average right across the Alps, the Pyrenees and CE Europe.
Natural snowfall has been modest. Temps are high. It has been raining at an eye-opening rate.
It is not the worst season on record, but it is a bad one.
To be sure, the snow will arrive some time between now and Mar. Every dog has its day.
But, right now, on balance, based on total conditions across Western Europe, the season is struggling.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you're working in a ski resort (outside the Rockies), this has not been a great season and something very special is going to have to happen to change that.
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| Spindrift wrote: |
| If you're working in a ski resort (outside the Rockies), this has not been a great season and something very special is going to have to happen to change that. |
Yes, I know 2 people who have already called it a day and have come back. Sadly, for most alpine businesses it'll already be too late to make the numbers up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wouldn't it be funny if the snow came and lasted all the way through to July!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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its on its way,its on its way,everyone go crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 
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petemillis, it might  but the lifts won't be running much past Easter in most places.
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You know it makes sense.
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Bode Swiller, Surely they would if the snow arrival dictated it? Surely they'd re-open the lifts to take advantage of it and market their places like mad
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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They wouldn't have the staff or get the business to make it worthwhile
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Oct to Feb builds up the base. Mar to May is when it melts away.
The media have been mostly correct in their reports about conditions.
On balance, snowdepths are way below-average right across the Alps, the Pyrenees and CE Europe.
Natural snowfall has been modest. Temps are high. It has been raining at an eye-opening rate.
It is not the worst season on record, but it is a bad one.
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Temperatures are certainly high. But is the rest of this accurate? First, I believe that depths are pretty average at the higher altitudes. At lower altitudes I don't think that October is when the base is laid; snowfall in October generally melts completely; for goodness sake, the cows are up on the ski pistes till around Toussaint (end of October), many years. I have had a mid October holiday here for each of the past four years and in every case have been out walking in shorts and T shirts. Very importantly, I don't believe that it has been raining at an eye-opening rate either, generally precipitation levels are still worrying low in much of France including much of the Alps. It is precisely because there has been no precipitation worth speaking of that the rather modest snowfall we had on 1/2 January is still providing some good skiing, even on slopes with no artificial snow. The stunningly high pressures which have been dominating the whole of the area have swatted away all the depressions which have dumped so much rain on the UK.
For this resort at any rate the alpine ski season began the weekend before Christmas and it will end towards the end of April (probably with great snow, as is often the case). Around 18 weeks, of which we have so far had 4.5 of which one (1 - 7th Jan) was terrific and the following week not bad, with the whole domain open, albeit slushy down in the Arly Valley. So, of an 18 week season, we have had one excellent week, one quite good week, one week getting icy and some lower links closed and one week (Christmas) with fairly grotty snow conditions but belting sunshine.
Not for another month will we be half way through our season, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mr.Si wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, Surely they would if the snow arrival dictated it? Surely they'd re-open the lifts to take advantage of it and market their places like mad |
No, uneconomic. Lots of things come into play... charter aircraft start heading for the sun, tour ops from all over Europe stop their programs, many independent-minded folk start turning to summer sports, resort staff have summer jobs to go to etc etc etc. Basically, very few paying punters. For loads of resorts the end of the season is maybe only 10 - 12 weeks away. Frankly, a bad season has been long-overdue... we've been thoroughly spoilt in the noughties so far. Anyway, only 4 more sleeps til the deep of Utah.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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29 more for me. The Ziller valley should be stocked up by then. But I guess, if not, then there's always Hintertux.
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Well the high pressure that's been haging over the UK is giving way over the next couple of days to low pressure from the west. Perhaps the high pressure will be leaving the rest of Europe as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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petemillis, Again, at the risk of appearing thick, is high pressure bad for snow? Is it low pressure we should be hoping for?
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Anniepen, broadly speaking, precipitation (rain or snow) is associated with low pressure.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| Mr.Si wrote: |
| Bode Swiller, Surely they would if the snow arrival dictated it? Surely they'd re-open the lifts to take advantage of it and market their places like mad |
No, uneconomic. Lots of things come into play... charter aircraft start heading for the sun, tour ops from all over Europe stop their programs, many independent-minded folk start turning to summer sports, resort staff have summer jobs to go to etc etc etc. Basically, very few paying punters. For loads of resorts the end of the season is maybe only 10 - 12 weeks away. Frankly, a bad season has been long-overdue... we've been thoroughly spoilt in the noughties so far. Anyway, only 4 more sleeps til the deep of Utah. |
I believe that last season was extended by two weeks in the 3V due to the excellent late season conditions.
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| Spindrift wrote: |
| If you're working in a ski resort (outside the Rockies), this has not been a great season and something very special is going to have to happen to change that. |
I'd say its been pretty much a banner year so far in the Cascades, Coastal range, Okanagan, Monashees, Kootenay-Columbia, Purcells and Bugaboos too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Oct to Feb builds up the base. Mar to May is when it melts away.
The media have been mostly correct in their reports about conditions.
On balance, snowdepths are way below-average right across the Alps, the Pyrenees and CE Europe.
Natural snowfall has been modest. Temps are high. It has been raining at an eye-opening rate.
It is not the worst season on record, but it is a bad one.
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Temperatures are certainly high. But is the rest of this accurate? First, I believe that depths are pretty average at the higher altitudes. At lower altitudes I don't think that October is when the base is laid; snowfall in October generally melts completely; for goodness sake, the cows are up on the ski pistes till around Toussaint (end of October), many years. I have had a mid October holiday here for each of the past four years and in every case have been out walking in shorts and T shirts. Very importantly, I don't believe that it has been raining at an eye-opening rate either, generally precipitation levels are still worrying low in much of France including much of the Alps. It is precisely because there has been no precipitation worth speaking of that the rather modest snowfall we had on 1/2 January is still providing some good skiing, even on slopes with no artificial snow. The stunningly high pressures which have been dominating the whole of the area have swatted away all the depressions which have dumped so much rain on the UK.
For this resort at any rate the alpine ski season began the weekend before Christmas and it will end towards the end of April (probably with great snow, as is often the case). Around 18 weeks, of which we have so far had 4.5 of which one (1 - 7th Jan) was terrific and the following week not bad, with the whole domain open, albeit slushy down in the Arly Valley. So, of an 18 week season, we have had one excellent week, one quite good week, one week getting icy and some lower links closed and one week (Christmas) with fairly grotty snow conditions but belting sunshine.
Not for another month will we be half way through our season, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions. |
The first sustainable snowfalls at high altitudes occur in Oct. The snowline creeps down the mountain through Feb, before edging back up through May.
Rain this year has been unusually high for Jan, the coldest time of the year. Rain has been reported in almost every country across the Alps, up to an alarming 2500m, during the past couple weeks. I just spent 10 days in Alpine Austria, and it rained almost half the time. That is an eye-popping rate.
Snowdepths and snowfall remain way below the longterm average right across the Alps.
Snowfall in Courchevel is 40% below-average. Snowdepths are roughly one-third below-average in Davos. Snowdepths are more than 50% below-average in Saalbach.
Please be aware that there are other parts of the world outside Southeastern France.
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| Quote: |
Please be aware that there are other parts of the world outside Southeastern France
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I don't know about southeastern France but in the part of the Alps I am in, and in much of the rest of the French Alps too, there has not been a great deal of rain yet this winter. My understanding is that precipitation in much of France has been damagingly below average for the last several years and if you have evidence to the contrary I'd be interested to see it. Your post clearly implied unusually high levels of rainfall recently across the Alps as a whole and I stick to my assertion that that is not the case. It would have been surprising if precipitation levels had been significant in those areas of continental Europe which have for some weeks been dominated by very high barometric pressure. The lack of rain, and therefore water stored, is a real problem hampering snow making in a variety of resorts.
I also understand from davidof's reports elsewhere that snow depths at higher altitudes are not far off the long term average. Is that not the case?
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