Why haven't you joined the SCGB?

A snowHead

I've just joined but if you haven't, why? However, I'm still preturbed by the seemingly conservative agendas put forward by vocal members who appear to resist change (see the members chat forum). This puts me off slightly and I'm still amazed that the governing Council hasn't reversed its perverse decision to ban non members from the chat zone! How's it supposed to connect with the broader skiing public?

Does this sort of thing put you off? Would you consider joining? Do you disagree with my contention? Do you think it's stuffed full of Tories?

A snowHead

I was a member for many years but I just believe that the SCGB does not offer value. I bleieve there is a strong reactionary constiuency within the SCGB who are extremely change resistant. DG keeps encouraging me to rejoin but I've settled for associate membership via Tracks Vacations, which gets us listed on the SCGB website etc. DG has rasied the interesting question as to whether associate membership carrys the right to vote.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I am a member but increasingly I wonder why, when I first joined I was able to claim a number of discounts from shops, dry ski slopes and several transport choices, in recent years however the SCGB seems to be promoting its own travel company more than anything else, all well and good but I make private arangements with the hotel and thus make my own travel arrangements, on the other hand I would like to be able to get discounts on dry slope use, sales of equipment and so on, I think, but am not sure, that even the number of ski magasines we get has decreased as well, likewise I used to get a discount for being more than 70 miles from London, that no longer applies since they moved to Wimbeldon, nor do we have a proper clubhouse any more, I would suggest that the Club seems to be increasingly commercially orientated and as a result less advantageous to its members, hell it even wants us to remove references to the GB part of its name

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I haven't joined as i don't see a benefit that i can't get myself, or that i need!

And that strange seperate "snowboarders" site they developed was a complete load of tosh rolling eyes

I don't know enough about it and i've never been a member (and don't intend to) and i'm sure there are some very good people involved...............but from what i have read here and in the press, the view from an outsider looking in it seems that Will Carlings famous quote about the management of England Rugby would seem apt NehNeh

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I was seriously considering joining as I enjoyed the open forum and used the snow reports, especially the historical ones. I had also met a rep or two and could get a 2 years for one deal if I joined in the resort which seemed a reasonable offer.
Then Members Only day came. I couldn't contact anyone before my last ski holiday for a possible meet up (I was going solo, as usual). The repping is mainly off piste or at least above my ability and comfort levels. The magazine would probably never make it through the useless Q8T postal service. So they've got little to offer me now and I won't be joining. Closing the open forum so abruptly was the clincher. They had ignored suggestions of free, moderated, forum software and ploughed merrily on with the clanky version they had - attracting criticism all round.
From their own web site .........

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The thing is Ian, the Club needs blokes like you to make it appear as an organisation which 'ordinary' skiers can join. There still is a prevailing image problem, one that I agree with, and this is only confimed by some of the conservative agendas advocated on the members chat zone. It doesn't help when a high degree of pomposity and superiority is brandished by certain people and this sort of thing certainly needs challenging. And boy, am I happy to do that!

Yes, I joined primarily to reconnect with skiers only to find they'd all come here! Still, I am going to make it work but I can see myself disagreeing vehemently with much of the particularism and parochialism of some of the conservative, reactionary members who are resistant to change and want to keep the Club rooted in the age of Empire.

Anecdotally, I understand the Club's membership is increasing by 3% per annum but this needs verifying. Still, it's a very small number given the amount of snowsports enthusiasts in the UK.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

kevin, Turning the SCGB into a larger, more open, more representative and more democratic organisation is an aspiration I share. There are plenty of common denominators between skiers - the snowHeads community actually evokes the old SCGB in a modern setting.

It's all about open communication, opening the books, and getting off the high horse. It's about inventing a membership strategy that connects with modern skiers.

The AGM this November can be a turning point. Those who'd like the Ski Club to be a bigger more friendly community should come along. The Club has substantial assets, which can be put to better use for all British skiers. It's a duty, and it's what the Club's founders and operators up to the late 50s / early 60s wanted.

Then things went a bit off-piste.

To answer your question, Kevin, I became a member in 1962 when my Dad wanted me to take the bronze SCGB test (which was tougher than the Swiss bronze test). An SCGB rep organised the test and recruited us.

Nick, you have a point so I apologise for my own pomposity. Working class lads learning Latin, 'eh? There'll be a revolution next!

David, in my opinion you've taken a bit of unflair flack on the Club website, much of which I feel has been misplaced. Perhaps the problem is mine, but I cannot understand why there is so much resistance to opening things up over there and it certainly reinforces the 'image' of reaction that far too many non members have. I'm absolutely certain that there are many good people doing a marvellous job for the Club and its members but the lacuna between public perception and actualite needs to be bridged. The spectacular and retrograde decision to shut the open access discussion rooms, accompanied by the stubborness to budge, merely reinforces the image, no matter how erroneous that might be.

I raised the possibility of the Club having a greater public profile in the development of a shop but the conservatives merely sniffed the air for non-sequiturs denouncing my suggestion as a 'commercial enterprise'. There are many suggestions I can think of in raising the Club's profile but I feel my optimism will probably be dismissed as naivety!

What for example, is the dry slope strategy? Is there an active policy in place to develop talent, mentor and recruit? I'd be interested to hear. Certainly the dry slope I visit has no visible SCGB leafleting and yet it's these sorts of people the Club ought to be recruiting. What about a schools policy? Is there anything going on here? What about a Ski Club outreach for inner city kids? There'd be no better advert for the sport than having a kid coming through from a background where skiing is unlikely to be on the agenda.

Anyhow, the best way forward is democratisation through action-the more we do that is relevant to 'ordinary skiers' the more members we'll get.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

kevin mcclean, re the dry slope strategy, I raised that point months ago but with no joy, as for the possibility of a club shop being too commercial , what on earth is the ski club travel service if not commercial ? I could understand them not wanting a shop due to the costs of such an opperation but not due to its being too commercial, there does seem to be a lot of hyping of ski club holidays etc whilst as you say there seems to be very little promotion of the club outside of the club itself (by that I include the resort reps). Crying or Very sad

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I had always seen the SCGB as a bit of a toffs' glee club. Well, the real toffs, of course, don't need a club like that because "Daddy's friends own half of Switzerland darling" but more a "quasi-toffs' glee club".

3 (I think)seasons ago though, I was looking for some data or other regarding a prospective ski trip and a Google search turned up the olde forum.
It was a fairly quiet affair in those days (though not as quiet as it is now of course rolling eyes

) but I spotted a chance to get the info I was after and asked a question.
By the following day I'd had a number of helpful responses and it subsequently became my first stop when seeking snow related data. Over the next couple of seasons (as we know) the forum grew massively and a strong sense of community developed. There were individuals who annoyed me, others I regarded as friends. Intriguingly, although I had actually met less than half a doz of them, it was rather like being part of a 'club'.
Through regular involvement, my knowledge of the subject grew to the point where I was proud to be able to be answering people's questions more than I was asking them. Some people, however, seemed to be putting an enormous amount of time and effort into the forum; even to the point that I suspected one regular participant to be under the employ of the club (probably working for the magazine or something) with a remit to inject value and interest into the forum to ensure its prosperity.
Seems silly now ey?

Anyway, encouraged by the prevailing sense of camaraderie, I quite fancied becoming a member of the club proper. For no greater reason than the idea of 'belonging' to such a cool set of people. I intended to join in resort in March, cannily taking advantage of the 241 offer.
Well, we all know what happened in between!

I felt a little foolish, that I mistook the vibe of the forum for the vibe of the club itself. My impression became, that not only were the two different, but nigh on opposite. Whereas I had imagined the club organisers nurturing its forum based community they had, on the whole, been oblivious to it until they had become its would-be nemesis.

Why am I not a member?
I think the pertinent question is "why were the club's councillors not the first members of snowHeads?"

snow reports

ubrain, good points, I believe the individual you refer to is in fact the editor of Ski and Board magzine.

u brain, I'll print that out for the Ski Club's Council with your consent. Little more needs to be said really.

You know it makes sense.

u brain, I'd say that sums things up pretty well

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

u brain, follows my sentiments exactly. Although I am an accidental member of the SCGB for another year through forgetting to cancel a direct debit Embarassed

A snowHead

u brain, thanks for the data.

So that's:

6 who joined because of the open forum.

4 who left because of MO day.

1 who joined because of MO day.

1 who was going to join because of the open forum, but didn't because of MO day.

Less than 1% of the 1500 people who completed the Members Questionnaire last year (pre MO day) cited the Forum as the main reason for using the website. What’s more of the 15 different services polled from the website, chat was valued 14th; only the e-ski shop was less valued. So the traffic was anything but forum centred.

Was the Ski Club on the verge of a 'membership explosion' because of the open forum?

A snowHead

Gerry how do you get your data ? I'm not doubting it just questioning your source. You seem to spend all your time defending the ski club , most people here have not openly critisised the club other than for its actions on MO day however none of them have said what a marvelous , organisation it is except yourself and one other. IMHO it used to be a very good organisation indeed, now however it appears to be less of a club and more of a buisiness. Indeed looking at the startup page for members I can see the following

Ski Club Holidays
Ski Club Travel Service
Ski Club Credit Card
a link to SnowExtras.com
an online shop
and lastly how much it will cost to advertise on the club website

I wonder what the original founders of the Ski Club of Great Britain would have made of all that commercialism ?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

D G Orf, I think you'll find the Ski Club is a not for profit org. Where did i get my data? I read it on the internet.

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Gerry, with all due respect, if all you managed to glean from my post was the datum, ”1 who was going to join because of the open forum, but didn't because of MO day” then, frankly, it's exactly your kind of attitude that created this whole cock-up in the first place. You're so busy counting beans that you miss the point. Just as the SCGB politburo did with its forum.

Your 'statistics' read like a Nu-Labor[sic] press release. I get the feeling that they have been presented here and now in an attempt to demonstrate how insignificant my opinion really is in the great scheme that is YOUR club.
But, I know how I feel about the way I and over 2000 other users of the club's forum were treated by the council and the fact that you, the club's 'Premiere representative', tell me that my opinions mean little or nothing to you because your figures are ‘just great’, only goes to underpin my belief that I was mistaken about the ski club when I believed (all too briefly) that it was a friendly organisation that I wanted to be part of.

Although you profess the insignificance of the forum, when it suits the club, the forum is a highly valued resource:

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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NOthing I can say that hasn;t been said already : I found the forum to be an excellent plac to discuss what I needed to, and to help proivide info where I was able.

Unlike some, I was *not* about to join the lubc, but it was under consideration for a few years down the line when the "off-piste" holidays would be suitable. After the incompentent handling of MO day, however, the club has a lot of ground to make up to gete even to the point where I'd start considering it again, much less join.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Well said u brain, I totally agree with both posts.

By the way Gerry, may I humbly suggest that a return of 1,500 members' questionnaires out of a potential 27,000 represents a very poor sample (approx 5%?) and perhaps reflects the level of disengagement that the majority of members have with 'the Club'. We joined originally purely for the discounts & I suspect the majority of 'silent' members are there also purely for that reason.

After all it is free

As I've written elsewhere, I was intending to join the week before MO day...but couldn't find the resort rep. The thing that put me off before that (and still does) is the price.

The statistics in this matter are certainly important, but are very elusive. Essentially they relate to the reasons skiers join or leave the Club. Unless the skiers involved are asked the questions we cannot state the statistics, but...
...I believe our Club (up to 2003) had discovered that the internet had become its primary source of new membership - more important than reps, ski shows, magazines and other methods. Hopefully this remains the case because the internet is such a low-cost way of recruiting people (compare it with the cost of flying reps transatlantic to resorts where few British skiers go).
Everything I know about the internet (which isn't a massive amount) suggests that the fostering of communities and affinities is the seedbed of success. So, extracting the essential nutrients (casual internet users) from that seedbed is not the most intelligent thing to do. The open forum on the SCGB site undoubtedly had the potential to boost membership by hundreds each year.
It all comes down to what our Club actually wants to be. For half its life it wanted to be a Very Important Organisation, and all focus was on the membership figure relative to the ski population. When the 1960s got going the Club lost its role as the governing body of British ski racing, but the massive growth in package holiday skiing and Scottish skiing was just getting going. Unfortunately that's when the condescension took to the piste. 40 years on, and nothing much seems to have changed.
The Club remains important, in that it is rich in assets and therefore rich in potential for improving the ski experience for everyone, but it won't change unless people who want it to change buy themselves a vote.
So it's over to you!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I would still argue that the club is no longer a club in the true sense of the word, rather it is a buisiness, it may be as Gerry says a not for profit buisiness but its commercial side is definately growing whilst its club side seems to be stagnating

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

I'm pretty sure that the Club's Chief Executive, Caroline Stuart-Taylor, said so at the last AGM. Maybe we could be given a breakdown of new member sources in the annual report.

personally, I never found the chat forum much good before MO day, it was however ,as DG noted, the internet that made me aware of the SCGB (and hence why I joined), which I found when searching for for info on resorts.
I also used some of the discounts and the insurance so financially it was a good thing for me.
This year as it appears (by the package of dodgy info I got yesterday) I have joined again, I shall make sure that all the SCGB reps that come to Whistler really earn my membership fee Twisted Evil

On the forum front, I'm kind of glad in a way that MO day happened (despite the way the SCGB did it!) as Snowheads is miles better as a forum and free from the restraints of the SCGB.

You know it makes sense.

David Goldsmith, Thanks.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

OTOH, I would have missed this link had I not been a member of the SCGB forum. Passed on to y'all so you don't miss out snowHead

A snowHead

Nick. Great, that ought to go in the Mountain Songs post in piste, any particular tune to sing it to?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I will admit I liked the basic quirkeness of the old scgb forum. It was great fun whilst it lasted. In some ways I miss the old forum because there were a lot more "heated debates" with a few old characters who didn't make it across to snowheads.Things are a bit more mellow these days - not a bad thing though, don't get me wrong.

Like ubrain, I thought the scgb were fully behind, but they weren't. I would imagine that whilst the forum was not the be all and end all of the scgb it was opening the doors to newer brighter things in the form of quality information and experience.

That is gone now, and I believe there should be no going back.

I know a few here think that they can turn things round through democratic means etc, etc. But how long will that take and, more importantly, why go back where your not wanted? At the end of the day they made a choice to close the forum. They way they did it was totally disrespectfull.

Their loss. End of story (and it should be).

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I joined to ski with more people and hats off to the Ski Club for providing me with many opportunities to do so, which is the same as saying hats off to the other members!

U brain, the Ski Club cannot steal anything given freely to the public domain because by definition you give up all rights to the work by putting it there. Not meant to be a criticism, just a point on copyright. I wonder if you have e-mailed them with a request for a copy of the posts you want access to, I don’t suppose they are obliged but you might get a result..

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Beck Daross, welcome to snowHeads!

I, too, am a Ski Club member. I strongly disagree with you about the 'acquisition' of postings to the Club's forum. If, as you say, they were posted to the public domain they should remain in the public domain.

What happened may or may not have been 'legal' but it was incredibly undiplomatic and insensitive to those who had provided the information and felt considerable goodwill to the Club.

Even now, all that material could easily be posted to an independent site, if the Club's Council will not readmit non-members.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

You only have to look at sites such as:

1. www.goneboarding.com
2. www.adrenalintrip.net/Snowboarding

for example, (I know there are ski ones - epic??? etc but i have never used them) to see how much on-line communities thrive. The world is or sorry already has changed and the internet is such a wonderful way to quickly find information and meet like minded individuals. Business' have sprung up, people wearing forum clothing, yearly summer/winter gatherings etc. etc.

Once people join they feel a real sense of belonging and i'm sure the open forum did generate a lot of new memberships for the club and would only have gone onto spur better things for the club. I'm convinced that the vast majority of new memberships came from their...........unfortunately i doubt the evidence is there to support it, but that's what i think.

oh and Welcome to snowHeads Beck Daross

After all it is free

Ok, U, I'll just deal with your bullet points.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Hi everyone! Thanks for all your input!

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Why haven't you joined the SCGB?

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