 Poster: A snowHead
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Having a non-event skiing holiday 20 years ago I tackled the slopes again with a couple of private lessons and have managed to control the fear factor and broadly control my skis. So, as my instructor didn't use technical terms (confidence was the main issue to be tackled, skill later I think!) and I am now considering buying boots as I have a cheap chalet to visit regularly:
What is a skidded turn? How does it differ to carving?
How do I introduce the skills I develop on the shallower slopes onto the steeper sections of blues and reds? Is there a key to eliminating tensionand the dreaded snowplough returning?
I found my boots killed my calves and were very narrow - pressure along both sides, numbness after two hours fastened, and pressure on my ankle. I have wide feet and calves so would buying my own make a difference?
Feeling quite chuffed as I went from being an embaressment to being seen with my sister and OH who are quite good skiers, all in five hours and only on the one red run that was open AND suitable at Chatel/Pre La Joux! Definitely recommend the private lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sbloom, I'm sure wiser heads than mine will contribute but fwiw:
any turn is a combination of getting the ski onto its edge (when it will 'carve' because of its shape) and sliding it round so that it points in a new direction. A 'skidded turn' is , as it sounds, one where the ski 'skids round' (normally accompanied by a scraping sound and a flurry of snow kicked up), whereas a 'pure' carved turn relies only on the shape of the ski under pressure and it's edge to cut a smooth line in the snow. Look back at your tracks, carved turns will be a thin curved line, skidded turns will be a larger flatter track of moved snow.
techniques learned on gentle pistes can be transferred to steeper slopes by just practising on gradually increasing inclines and taking things at a steady pace. The key to no falling back into 'survival mode' (where you basically panic and drop back into a snowplough is to increase the slope gradually and maintain your confidence. I used to find doing just one or two turns, then stopping and reassessing helped in my earliest days. Don't be tempted onto steep or icy stuff to soon, you can have a lot of fun on greens a blues without scaring yourself.
Buying your own boots is probably the single best thing you can do for your skiing providing you get them fitted to your feet by a qualified boot fitter. Forget marketing hype, colour or gizmos, just go to a good bootfitter (CEM and SZK will I'm sure be along shortly!  ) and trust them. Boots shold feel quite tight for the foirts few days then become comfortable. you can speed this up by wearing them for a couple of hours a day for a week before taking them to the slope.
Hope this helps. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did carving exist when skis were straight? Can you use a carved turn to take speed off, as I have a speed control (freak ) issue?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A skidded turn is one where by turning the boot in the binding, the ski changes direction. This has the advantage of moving the ski around quicker, so generally less time is spent with it pointing straight down the hill, and so it has less chance to gain speed. The disadvantage is that this means that at some point the ski is moving in a sideways manner through the snow, which makes it more likely to catch an edge, makes it feel less stable, and also is generally a less efficient use of energy.
A carved turn is one where the ski is turned by leaning it over so that it is no longer flat to the snow, and so that it is sliding on one of it's edges, which through the shape of the ski, and the pressure of the skier, cause it to bend into a curve and so turn. The advantage of this turn is that at no point is your ski travelling sideways, so it feels more stable, is less likely to catch an edge, and uses less energy from the skier. The disadvantage is that you may not always have enough room, or talent to do it.
Also to use the ski properly, by getting it to bend, then spring back to straight, then bend again, which makes it far more efficient, you need to be carving (or at least partially engaging the edge) at some point in the turn.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| sbloom wrote: |
| Did carving exist when skis were straight? |
Yes. But with the newer shaped skies, it's a lot easier.
| sbloom wrote: |
| Can you use a carved turn to take speed off? |
Yes, (with a "but")... a carved turn is the fastest turn you can make - so it's not the best way to lose speed.
You can take speed off using any type of turn simply by staying in the turn until you are going uphill.
If you come out of a turn too early, you could well gain speed rather than lose it.
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I learned on a dry slope for along time before my first disastrous holiday so was the edging queen, and tended to do 20 traverses to everyone else's 5, and turn very sharply...I guess the skidded turns are good for my confidence and are allowing me to make much more sweeping turns while still taking speed off. I can do a sort of parallel stop, so sometimes used this to take me slightly more uphill to take off more speed.
Interestingly, after reading about beginners and ice hockey stops on another post, I am a horse rider, dressage espcially, so am used to separating my upper and lower body, so had some success bringing the skis round without rotation of my upper body. Another issue came up from my riding - weighting a stirrup is imperceptible and so I tried to do the same when weighting the downhill ski, trying to keep the body in the same place. We realised my instructor was expecting me to LEAN a little to weight the ski, not this dressage nonsense! Interesting light bulb moments for her and I, she has a few tricks now in case she teaches more horse riders!
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| sbloom wrote: |
How do I introduce the skills I develop on the shallower slopes onto the steeper sections of blues and reds? Is there a key to eliminating tensionand the dreaded snowplough returning.
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Don't dread the snowplough - it's not a curse, nor a failure to use it, better a well controlled and tidy snowplough than messy and out of control paralells. That said the answer to the 'fear factor' is just slope time imo, don't overface yourself, get the hours in and enjoy yourself. A few hours instruction every time you ski will work wonders too as you have discovered.
Glad you had fun - the pre la joux side was the nicest from memory - though very icy when I visited!
aj xx
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It was pretty manky Christmas week on the green run, which is what I had to use at the top half from the Pierre Longue lift - the top part of the red was steep and full of bumps - not a confidence giver! I was dealing with 20 feet of tarmac on the green on day 4...the snow came on Monday but not sure how much. The bottom of the red was great at the beginning of the week as it was kept up with cannons but it got too warm for them - slushy and icey after we left I'm sure. Did love Chatel, looking forwards to skiing SuperChatel and going over to Avoriaz next time...and have just found Easyjet returns to Geneva for £27 plus taxes end of Feb...tempting.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Funnily enough after 10 years of trying to get proficient at hard edging and carving I went to Alta in Utah for 4 days last year where the instructor was promoting a technique which was actually the reverse.
Alta gets lots of snow and for most of the 4 days it snowed. I joined a ski workshop for a couple of days. The instructor (Bob) was getting us to ski more "efficiently" in terms of effort. The first point was to use the skeleton to support the weight, stay balanced and use ankle flex to help get the weight onto the correct part of the ski. His other major point was to release the edges sooner to get the skis to slide down toward the fall line easier and then pressurise the ski to turn.
The other thing he was getting us to do was to to initiate the turn with the inside ski by rotating it and push off of the outside uphill ski to effectively "fall" down the fall line. This seemed kinda weird but it all became clear when he took us down fresh snow on the Alta bowls and unpisted trails. In this snow off piste it then seemed to make sense. I still fell down a lot but it sure worked.
It was different isntruction to what I had in Europe where it was more prevelant to set hard adges all the time. This was the first time I had skied in soo much fresh deep snow.
Sorry if all this is stating the obvious to the experienced skiers on this forum but it was an education to me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| scotabroad wrote: |
The first point was to use the skeleton to support the weight, stay balanced and use ankle flex to help get the weight onto the correct part of the ski. We do this too
His other major point was to release the edges sooner to get the skis to slide down toward the fall line easier and then pressurise the ski to turn. this is more basic than edging the ski at the beginning of the turn
The other thing he was getting us to do was to to initiate the turn with the inside ski by rotating it and push off of the outside uphill ski to effectively "fall" down the fall line. Not 100% sure what you mean - do you mean turning the inside ski?, opening the inside knee, or extending off the uphill ski?
It was different isntruction to what I had in Europe where it was more prevelant to set hard adges all the time. When was the last time you had instruction in europe and where?
This was the first time I had skied in soo much fresh deep snow.
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| Quote: |
Don't dread the snowplough - it's not a curse, nor a failure to use it, better a well controlled and tidy snowplough than messy and out of control paralells.
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very good advice, I reckon. The key thing is to get smooth S shape turns, round turns so each turn links directly to the next, not zig zags with a traverse in between. Far better to do nice curvy snowplough turns allowing the skis down the fall line a bit (which means being on slopes which don't scare you) and gradually, without you thinking about it too much, the wedge will narrow. I would think that at your stage the shape of your turns is a far more important factor than whether you are "carving or skidding". Most of us, most of the time, do a bit of both on almost every turn. The other best bit of advice is not to stop having lessons, and to get good ones. I have skied with people who have done three holidays and had lessons each time, or done 10 holidays and stopped having lessons after their first trip. Guess who skied best?? Some people grasp it all very quickly and some people can learn on their own, but most of us don't; I have been skiing for 20 years and had lessons most years and still have tons to learn. Don't let your mates teach you, or persuade you onto steeper slopes than you feel comfortable with, remember that an easy blue can become very difficult in the wrong snow conditions and do get boots fitted well. And relax! Next holiday you will almost certainly have far nicer snow conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| easiski wrote: |
| scotabroad wrote: |
The first point was to use the skeleton to support the weight, stay balanced and use ankle flex to help get the weight onto the correct part of the ski. We do this too
His other major point was to release the edges sooner to get the skis to slide down toward the fall line easier and then pressurise the ski to turn. this is more basic than edging the ski at the beginning of the turn
The other thing he was getting us to do was to to initiate the turn with the inside ski by rotating it and push off of the outside uphill ski to effectively "fall" down the fall line. Not 100% sure what you mean - do you mean turning the inside ski?, opening the inside knee, or extending off the uphill ski?
It was different isntruction to what I had in Europe where it was more prevelant to set hard adges all the time. When was the last time you had instruction in europe and where?
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easiski - I was not critizising or saying US was better than Europe at all I was just relating my experience. With respect to the turn initiation he was trying to get us to open the inside knee and extend off the uphill ski in a fluid movement, especially in the unpisted deep snow. I probably have not had solid instruction in Europe for 4 or 5 years. I have found the language barrier with ESF instructors that I have had limiting (no offence intended), if I could make one positive remark about the US instruction was having English as the first language made a big difference.
I am off to France at the end of next week and intend a few private lessons to get up to scratch.
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