 Poster: A snowHead
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hey fellas, Im wondering what it is like coming off a pair of skinnier skis onto a pair of wider skis. Right now i ski on skis with a 67 mid, and im looking to get a ski with a 87 waist. besides the brand or qualityof the ski, im just wondering whats is the general difference between the too. ive skied 78's before and didnt notice much difference. thanks for any info.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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worms, can, open!
Fat ones look more cool and float better in powder.
Thinner ones perform better on piste - faster edge-to-edge, easier to carve etc, etc.
We could go on all night debating this and probably will 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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yes im aware of that. But do fat skis make you ski a different way. As of now, i keep my skis tightly together. Will fat ski's alter that? Thanks
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cwelsh, what way do you ski?
If your skis are tightly together, I'll guess your skiing old-school - i.e. not carving much on piste, but with better capabilities in powder.
If you are going for a 80-90mm waist, you may want to take a lesson or two to help with on-piste skiing. Apart from that, go out and have fun!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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cwelsh, do it, you won't look back. Do get a few lessons to get some tips how to get the best out of them.
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cwelsh, I belive the greatest difficulty you will find is getting the smile off your face once you try them off piste. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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87 isnt fat!
>100+ at waist
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brian
brian
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To slightly buck the trend .... I would say that to a certain extent don't believe the hype and be aware you are making a compromise. I've just moved from Axis-x 107/70/97 to Recon 119/78/105. Yes, they are less effort off piste, fine on soft to firm piste, etc. but there is a significant loss of edge hold on the hard to icy stuff. Overall I'm happy with my choice but if you enjoy piste skiing and ski somewhere you're going to find hard conditions often then it may not necessarily be a compromise you want to make.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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>> but there is a significant loss of edge hold on the hard to icy stuff.
Hmm, I found my wider Scott Missions were better than my 1080s for edge grip on the icy stuff!!!
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brian
brian
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kitenski, yes but how much edge would you expect from your supernoodles ?
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You know it makes sense.
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kitenski, isn't that more about sidecut too?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| brian wrote: |
| To slightly buck the trend .... I would say that to a certain extent don't believe the hype and be aware you are making a compromise. I've just moved from Axis-x 107/70/97 to Recon 119/78/105. Yes, they are less effort off piste, fine on soft to firm piste, etc. but there is a significant loss of edge hold on the hard to icy stuff. Overall I'm happy with my choice but if you enjoy piste skiing and ski somewhere you're going to find hard conditions often then it may not necessarily be a compromise you want to make. |
I think you're spot on there. The optimum waist width for on-piste skis is still under 70 mm. Anything wider starts to become a compromise between on/off piste performance. Of course there are plenty of 80+ skis that are still pretty competent on-piste, but never as good as their narrower equivalents.
So it's just a question of what compromise you want to make. If you only live for bottomless powder days and consider pistes as just a means of getting there, then go large. If you want to really carve it up at high speed on-piste, or rarely venture off-piste, then get something narrower.
Or you could just buy really fat skis for an ego boost. What the hell
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's all about the sidecut, I ski on 63's /64's with a fat tip and tail....unbelieveable for carving hard pack or ice or generally good piste conditions. Off-piste you want a less waisted ski....if you want a laugh try something equivalent to a pocket rocket!
Incidentally, slalom skis/GS skis tend to use around the 64' mark waist...probably says something
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think that the thing that amazes people about the Scott Missions is that they're 90mm underfoot (183s), and yet don't seem to lose any on-piste performance, whilst really floating well off-piste. They do have quite a pronounced side cut, and fairly small turn radius.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kramer wrote: |
| I think that the thing that amazes people about the Scott Missions is that they're 90mm underfoot (183s), and yet don't seem to lose any on-piste performance, whilst really floating well off-piste. They do have quite a pronounced side cut, and fairly small turn radius. |
It's all relative though. Try something like a Volkl Allstar on piste and then go back to the Missions. Then you'll see what you've lost. What you really mean is that they're ok on piste despite their size.
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uktrailmonster, no I don't really mean that. Have you tried them?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No, but no-ones racing Missions competitvely on-piste as far as I'm aware. Whereas the Volkl can be considered a credible masters GS race ski.
Perhaps I should try them and see if there really is a miracle born.
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brian
brian
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Kramer, have you tried them on rock hard/icy stuff ?
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uktrailmonster, its all relative. There's a few guy's (and gals) round here that could use Missions as a race ski and beat 99.8 percent of skiers!
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I've tried mine on rock hard, artificial snow, in the shade and about -10 and was amazed how good they were, uktrailmonster - give 'em a try, you'll be surprised!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| chris wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, its all relative. There's a few guy's (and gals) round here that could use Missions as a race ski and beat 99.8 percent of skiers! |
But they don't, they race on race skis so they can go even faster.
I'm not knocking the Missions, they sound like an awesome all-rounder and it sounds like they're pretty competent on piste. But they are clearly biased toward off-piste and WILL lose some performance on-piste. It's a very bold claim to say they lose nothing and I'm just not buying it. If you said they lost out nothing or very little to 80 mm mid-fats I might just believe you
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My ski's waists are 99, 84 & 76mm repectively & after a week of skiing hard pistes in Tignes I've just bought a pir of 68mm waisted skis
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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i really think in all sports you can't get a great all rounder, it is always a compromise. My advice as this is what i have done and it suits me so well is buy skis for each activity and make a decision at the start of the day what you are goign to undertake on the slopes that day.
i.e. if its dumping/dumped and there is 10cm powder on the pistes and 35cm+ powder off piste then don the fattie's 85cm + at the waist and have an off piste day.
Alternatively if it is a day of groomed pistes you wish maybe go for the carver/gs
I use a pair of heads 1100 and a pair of volkl gottama, i would like a pair of head world cup supershapes too
If i was to buy an allrounder the atomic metron range works really nicely
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
No, but no-ones racing Missions competitvely on-piste as far as I'm aware. Whereas the Volkl can be considered a credible masters GS race ski.
Perhaps I should try them and see if there really is a miracle born. |
But the qualities that you want from a race ski aren't necessarily the same qualities that you want from a piste ski or an all rounder. I'm also fairly certain that most people don't even approach the limits of the performance of their skis.
I've used the Missions in light powder, cut up heavier snow, soft pistes, and fairly hard pistes. They work well on all of them. I've not tried them on bulletproof boiler plate yet and hopefully I won't have to  . I have not found them to be a compromise yet.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kramer, I would wager that pretty much all the qualities I'd want from a piste ski (eg quick turning, sharp carving at all turn radii, rebound energy, high speed stability etc) would be much better delivered with a narrow waisted piste specific ski than your big fat Missions. That's not to say the Missions are bad in all those areas, just inevitably compromised for their other strengths. You sound like a competent skier, I'm sure you'd easily notice the difference.
For what it's worth I've been skiing recently on Head IM72s and they are also slightly compromised, although a bit more piste oriented than your Missions. They ski very well on piste, almost certainly better than Missions due to their dimensions and intended use, but I'm not under any false illusion that they're as good as full-on piste skis. I don't believe Scott have discovered a way of matching the on-piste performance of top quality 70 mm piste skis with a 90 mm freeride ski just yet. But at least it's clear that the compromises are getting smaller.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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plectrum, It would be great to have several pairs of skis, but it's not very practical for most people to carry them around the world. Then there's the cost of course. I have to make do with a single pair. At best I'd have to choose a pair for the entire trip.
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Poster: A snowHead
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uktrailmonster, I don't think that the Missions are as much of a compromise as you seem to think that they are. I would suggest that you try some, both on and off piste, as I think that you'll be very pleasantly surprised. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| My ski's waists are 99, 84 & 76mm repectively & after a week of skiing hard pistes in Tignes I've just bought a pir of 68mm waisted skis |
What have you bought this time?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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uktrailmonster, My money is on Kramer, with his missions. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've tried Missions on the glacier at the PSB, they were pretty good there - on windblown very hardpack/ice - but I was testing them and I wouldn't have used them there by choice. They came second IMV to the Outlaw with the Fury 3rd but all were pretty close.
My fave ski there was the Fire tho'... horse's for course's IMV.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| uktrailmonster, I don't think that the Missions are as much of a compromise as you seem to think that they are. I would suggest that you try some, both on and off piste, as I think that you'll be very pleasantly surprised. |
If I tried them, it would definitely be off piste where they belong. I doubt they're going to astound me on it.
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uktrailmonster, prepare to be astounded. I tried them on the glacier at the PSB and they gripped v.well indeed on the hardpack & big ice patches. Grinning from ear to ear. I have liked all the Scott skis i've tried.
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I'll be truly astounded if they can match a pair of Volkl Allstars or Head XRC 1200s or any other top line piste ski. It's all horses for courses, I just think some people are getting carried away with their claims of on-piste performance from what are clearly big fat powder skis. If the Missions really are that good on-piste, then the true "1 quiver beats all" ski has finally arrived. Or at least we're told it has. I'll have to demo them later this season and see if it's true 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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>> If the Missions really are that good on-piste, then the true "1 quiver beats all" ski has finally arrived
Well that is what I wanted, I bought Missions and I think I have found it. I do agree they are a compromise on piste, last season I took my 1080s and my Fischer slalom skis, but I find if I was going on a "piste day" we'd find some lovely spring snow, and be off piste without thinking about it, so I am not a person who wants a quiver!
I doubt they could match my (ex) Fischers on piste, but they are pretty damn close!
Cheers,
Greg
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This thread needs a contribution from Parlor
Haven't skied either ski but my feeling is that if you're going for a one ski quiver, you'll get more all round pleasure going fatter than thinner and if, like me, you're always looking for opportunities to go off-piste you'll go fat and not worry about the compromises on piste. There are compromises - they may not be as much as people think though
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