 Poster: A snowHead
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Will any European resorts follow the example of Black Mountain Maine? Or would it result in a drastic drop in the number of snowboarder visitors 
Maine Ski Resort to Ban Smoking in Winter
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| A Maine ski resort banned smoking and other tobacco use beginning this winter, and other ski areas owned by the same non-profit will look into such bans. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Banning smoking is fine by me, but let's hope that they don't follow the example of banning nouns from their sentences.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Maybe it's not a bad idea in certain circumstances- there is almost always one moment on a ski holiday in France when a French smoker tries to light up in a gondola or covered char and is stunned when you tell him to put it out. Here in Stavanger a law was passed in June which banned smoking in public places (yep, that includes pubs!). So far it has been pretty successful, no one seems to be complaining too much and it's much nicer to visit a restaurant now! I do wonder what it will be like in winter though.. 
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As a U.S. citizen I just don't understand other than to say we are a culture of right v. wrong, good v. evil -- little room for middle ground. I don't smoke (quit years ago) and I think most of us can agree we'd all be better off if no one used tobacco products of anykind. But I just think this is ludicrous. We know that fetal alchol syndrome is a real phenomenon, evidence would suggest that even one episode of heavy drinking in the first trimester can cause problems, but I'm not aware of any evidence that moderate drinking is problematic -- but a pregnant woman having a glass of wine with dinner would, at minimum, be chastised severely. We're nuts, no defense. I've enjoyed my limited visits to Europe very much -- but on some things, your all nuts too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not sure about banning smokes on the slopes (although people who leave fag ends - that's nother matter! - You brought it in, you take it out is the rule) but it would be great to know i could go out for apres ski every night and only have to take enough clothes to cover my own incompetence with drinks, replacing those whihch are soiled when I spill my pint, rather than a new set per evening becuase they *stink* after an hour in the pub
---> 2p
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....and a great way to discourage people from taking up smoking, wasting their money, and dying of the horror of lung cancer....
....would be to ban it in public spaces, and not put non-smokers throught the dangers of passive smoking.
People take up smoking because of stress in their lives, which is something that needs to be remedied too.
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RISkier, I know it's off topic, but it amazes me how many young pregnant girls I've encountered who give up alcohol completely the moment they know they are pregnant, but continue smoking full term!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Paul Holland, Thats because theyre skanky slappers, who get pregnant because " I waaaant sumwhaan ta laarve me like all th' time"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ise, Small village life None of my doing I may add...
Nadenoodlee, Too true. Don't forget 'Cuz I wont sumware to liv 4 free 2'
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps you daily mail readers out there wouldn't mind returning to the topic, or perhaps we could talk about illegal immigrants?
Anyway, back to smoking, smoking in public places is not a matter of individual freeedom, as passive smoking harms others. I am a smoker myself, however I cannot see one decent argument not to ban smoking in all public places.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kramer, what a bizarre but stunningly insightful outlook! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| bonfire wrote: |
| Maybe it's not a bad idea in certain circumstances- there is almost always one moment on a ski holiday in France when a French smoker tries to light up in a gondola or covered char and is stunned when you tell him to put it out. |
Pretty rare occurence these days though, in my experience. I've been trying to remember the last time it happened to me, and can't recall a single occasion over the last couple of seasons of someone smoking in the same gondola as me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I can thing of two good reasons:
one, it's hard if not possible to make a reasonable definition of public places.
two, it's far from clear to me that the effect of passive smoking in "public places" is the major health risk in "public places", compared to exhaust fumes etc etc
I also think it marks a further step down the route where acceptable behavior is something solely defined by legislation, opinion will vary but I don't see that as a good thing.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 26-08-04 10:19; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The quality of my cigars is a function of the effect of Swiss opening hours When I can't get to the real cigar shop I end with "Del Boy" specials from the local garage with a blend of the finest Sumatran and Brazilian tobacco rolled in the thighs of the village idiot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm one of these annoying people who only smoke when I've had a few beers (usually someone elses as well ), so a ban in pubs etc.. would be good for my health as well as others as I would probably stop smoking altogether.
It will always come down the some kind of civil liberties argument however. Couldn't you argue that no-one should drive cars on any but essential journeys because you pose a risk to other road users?!?
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| ise wrote: |
| bonfire, In many places in Switzerland and Austria smoking's not allowed on any lift, covered or otherwise, I'm sure I've see signs in France this season but I can't place where. One of the concerns is clearly the amount of cigarette butts under the lifts obviously. |
I can see the sense of that. And of course, in closed lifts - gondolas and trains - there is the fire risk. Other than that, I'm for consideration and tolerance. I am a non-smoker, BTW.
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I went to Dublin post smoke ban, and the pubs didnt smell like pubs!
Kramer, and I dont read the Daily Mail, I read the Sun and the Daily Record as I like laughing at Scummy Skanky people such as those mentionned above, so there 
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I can't see the french going for a smoking ban in bars.
They ignore my "espace non-fumeur" in the bar anyway.
If I ask them to move to a smoking area because there is a family sat in the non-smokling area (who don't want the kids breathing in fag smoke) they normally look at me like I've just asked to marry all their mothers......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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flying_squirrel, it'll happen eventually, but it's a while off as you say. Good on you for trying the ban. As for restaurants, I was really p....d off the other day when a Scandinavian lit up his sickly sweet-smelling pipe after his meal right next to us just as we were on our entrée..... the whole place reeked in seconds. He really didn't appreciate my politely asking him to put his bonfire out. Tough.
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PG, to be honest, I've up - the no smoking sign is pure wall decoration nowadays! And I smoke like a chimney anyway, so its hard enough to have a no-smoking-behind-the-bar rule...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't think its fair on smokers to ban smoking everywhere so they have to do cold turkey, but equally its not fair on non-smokers to have to breathe in second-hand smoke.
The smoking ban in Ireland is definitely encouraging people to cut down (or stop completely), and I guess is deterring young people from starting, and is considered to be a success by the vast majority of the population (including smokers)
Most pubs do have an outdoor (but covered) facility for people who do smoke. And it has encouraged more pubs to serve better quality food, as it is now quite pleasant to eat in bars (and not be over come with smoke!)
I think the same could work well in a ski resort. i.e. designated smoking areas (usually outdoor covered facility), but no smoking indoors or on ski lifts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The ban in BC, Canada seem to be working ok in Whistler from what i see. Most of the bars provide a covered patio or similar for people to go out for a smoke, and it is very nice to spend the evening in a non-smoky environment.
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A bit far back in the thread, but can anyone work out what RISkier's rant is truly about. And what is troubling him about all our nuts (eats, shoots, and leaves).
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You know it makes sense.
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Cymru am Byth, yes I was pretty confused, but concurred on the general conclusion which seemed to be that we're all nuts, give or take an apostrophe.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
one, it's hard if not possible to make a reasonable definition of public places.
two, it's far from clear to me that the effect of passive smoking in "public places" is the major health risk in "public places", compared to exhaust fumes etc etc
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1- they seem to have managed ok in Ireland, New York, Canada etc
2- The link between passive smoking and smoking related diseases is extremely well proven, the only confounding evidence being from studies funded (directly or indirectly) by the tobacco companies.
The civil liberties argument is not valid for many reasons, firstly you do not "choose" to smoke, it is an addiction, secondly, by smoking you cause harm to yourself and others, something that isn't a right in any civilised society. The "nanny state" argument is one that is often bought up by smokers groups (I wonder where their funding comes from...) to distract from the fact that smoking, both active and passive, is a public health issue, and therefore needs to be addressed by public health measures.
Just as an aside, if you've ever seen the piles of cigarette butts underneath the chairlifts in the spring thaw it certainly gives you something to think about.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Quote: |
one, it's hard if not possible to make a reasonable definition of public places.
two, it's far from clear to me that the effect of passive smoking in "public places" is the major health risk in "public places", compared to exhaust fumes etc etc
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1- they seem to have managed ok in Ireland, New York, Canada etc |
I think they defined it as 'enclosed workplaces' in Ireland.
Seem a good way to cover most situations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dan, wasn't me but I do remember the topic coming up before
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Kramer, have they managed well in those places? I think it may be too early to say, certainly for Ireland. Even if they have, how well do you expect the current UK government to manage? Badly drafted legislation seems to be about the norm now.
It just strikes me that some definitions of public places includes those where smoking doesn't seem to be the only hazard, I'm just curious how many more of those hazards would be addressed. Or how many other aspects of anti-social behavior.
You can argue for the right to do most anything providing it places no obligation on others or you accept an obligation, in this case, the right to smoke to clearly bounded by the obligation not share your smoke with others. It's depressing if we need laws to tell us this, or I find it is anyway.
The context of skiing was mentioned, it's a good example, the mountain's a public place and I can't see why someone can't smoke if they want while outdoors. I'd prefer it if they didn't while I'm queuing for the lift though, likewise for bus stops etc. So by having a weak definition of public places you'd either ban smoking all over the mountain or appear to sanction smoking in the lift queue.
I'm just very uncomfortable with using laws to replace social responsibility, it's lacking enough and my opinion's more laws like that make it worse still. We ought to reasonably expect people to have some respect for others without passing a new law every ten minutes.
What really, really worries me is that basically anything that’s not illegal will be perceived as being acceptable and we’re way too far down that route already. If as a society we’ve no way of making our values clear without making laws then, alarming though it is, Maggie was right and there’s no such thing as society.
If we're saying it's wrong to smoke in public places like bus stops, train stations, lift queues, shopping centers, car parks, elevators (I particularly hate that) etc then, I agree, it is.
What next? Laws against sneezing in case you're carrying this year’s killer disease? How about spitting? I'd like to see that banned
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fortunately, spitting is not socially acceptable where I come from.
I understood that in Japan, if you are suffering from a cold etc., you're expected to wear a surgical mask in public places. Good idea!!!!
Smoking should be confined to areas that does not bring smokers into contact with non smokers. That puts the onus on the smoker to avoid non smokers in public places, including mountains. Will this mean fag ends to go with the yellow snow just off the piste?
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Where I usually end up face planting 
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using laws to replace social responsibility
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Sociologically the two are indistinguishable, the rule of law is a formalised extension of social responsibility within a civilisation.
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how do you become addicted?........because you chose to smoke in the first place!!
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Not necessarily, there is no such thing as choice, as there is no such thing as free will. Free will, and therefore freedom of choice are an illusion generated by our sub-conscious mind to allow consciousness to exist. This has been proven experimentally by both neurologists and philosophers.
If you have no choice about starting smoking in the first place (which you don't) then surely it's not so bad to have no choice about giving up?
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| Kramer wrote: |
| Sociologically the two are indistinguishable, the rule of law is a formalised extension of social responsibility within a civilisation. |
 Well that definition certainly helps me to distinguish between the two...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Kramer, I think that last comment could justify a whole thread of its own!
Pre-determination vs free will, consciousness etc is in no way a done-deal scientifically...
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