 Poster: A snowHead
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Had mixed feelings about putting our 4-year old daughter into ESF lessons over the last week, mainly due to mixed reports have seen elsewhere about ESF. However, was no other option as New Generation had no spaces and Darentasia only start from age 6.
When we took her to the first lesson, they decided that she should be in the complete beginners group as they refused to recognise the lessons she has been having at Xscape and previously in Vallandry. Despite the fact she can snowplough and turn!
For 3 days she was stuck on the small/flat bunny slopes with 30 other kids! On the 4th day we took her out of lessons and took her skiing ourselves, which she loved. As we challenged her a bit she also progressed a lot - anyone with kids will tell you that they only learn anything when challenged.
The next day, out of interest, I asked whether they would be taking the class up the mountain - possibly I was told, but not Sarah as she missed the previous day 
In short - I thought they were sh*t and I will not be using them again EVER.
Darantasia we used for our twin boys and thought they were great - highly recommended. Have previously used New Generation and also would recommend.
ESF may be better for older children who can ski, but there whole set up seemed hopelessly disorganised and was really not impressed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's rough Boris, I've no experience ( yet ) of putting the Timberpups in ski school. I hope your Daughter hasn't been put off.
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Curtains, Expect 1-1 would have been fine and with hindsight wish we'd done this.
Timberwolf, No she loved it, took her out several times myself and she was bombing down the blues after the 3rd time!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When mine were 4 the ESF Arc 1800 seemed very reluctant to take them up the mountain and unencouraging about their prospects of being taken up the mountain later in the week, despite a previous week in Arc 1800 the year before and about 25 private dry slope lessons over 2 seasons. I pinpointed the ESF instructor I thought would be most influential and booked a private lesson with her for the kids that same afternoon on the first day. She was forced to take them up the mountain and recognise that they could ski blue runs without difficulty. Next morning, wonder of wonders, they'd been promoted to the going up the mountain group.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 31-12-06 20:10; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good news 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, good move - one adult for each direction taken! 
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easiski, Problem is that kids of this age often know best. We have managed to lose 4 of 6 kids when they were descending a lone and empty piste, adult at the front and adult at the back To try and teach with a large group of young kids is virtually impossible IMHO
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| easiski wrote: |
TBH, I think the schools see so many useless, baby-ish and unfit english kids that there will always be an assumption that they can't do what the parents say. Not saying it's right, but I think it's the case. I would also be reluctant to take more than one or two small kids (under 6/7) up the mountain, as they often try to ski off.   |
I suspect there is an element of this everywhere. Last time I was at the Snowdome, just before Christmas, there was what looked like a grandfather taking a granddaughter skiing. Somebody had obviously over-estimated her ability, maybe because she'd done a bit of skiing before, and said she was recreational standard (linked snowplough turns). She wasn't. She was struggling, and stopping and falling over in the middle of the piste on virtually every turn she tried to make. Eventually an instructor insisted she was taken off the slope until she had more lessons. As it happens, my 2 hours was up, so I went into the changing room at the same time as her. She was crying and her Mum, who wasn't skiing with her, was complaining. I thought the decision was quite correct - she was in danger because she wasn't the required standard.
If parents or kids over-estimate their ability, that can be dangerous too, and I suspect a lot of people have done this in the past, which is why the ski schools are cautious. But then having huge groups means they can't spot the ones who are really better than the group in which they are placed, and there is little opportunity for this to happen if they are given very basic exercises on almost flat slopes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, yer not too keen on teaching nippers then 
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Boris, thanks for that. Makes me glad we forked out the extra dosh (oops wrong thread) to put ours in New Gen for half term next.
The tightwad adults are all using ESF though. 
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You know it makes sense.
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I've often been 'given' a tot by a ski school to take up on the chairlift...and they can't even get on and off them unassisted. Then they sit on the chair in such a way that they could easily slip under the bar .... Scares me sh**** but you don't want to be holding a strange kid either..!!! So having a class of 6-8 must be pretty stressful, I'd imagine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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JT, you're meant to tell them to get their bums to the back of the chair y'know.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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easiski, Now things are in full swing and you have a few weeks under you belt, how is the ankle holding up?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT, If you're given a tot (& I'm told you can refuse to take responsibility) the best thing to do is lie your poles across your & their laps so they cant fall off. A friend & I were once given a tiny little guy to look after who could reach the bar with his arms raised, so spent the duration of the lift hanging on to the bar & looking under it  . Then there was nobody to help him off at the top - the instructor being too busy chatting up the guy at the top. So I got off & my friend stayed on with him while the chair went round & came to an emergency stop! One way to get attention!
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Frosty the Snowman, Not too bad so long as I don't walk in my ski boots!
geri, the scary thing is that when they sit as we do with the edge of the chair behind their knees they look as though they're about to fall out! They're safer than they seem, but it's still way scary..
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geri, at that size, you can just pick them up and stand them on their skis.
I don't mind helping the little ones on and off lifts; just treat them as your own - pick 'em up and plonk 'em into seat, make them sit back and pick 'em up and plonk them back on their skis at the top.
I just presumed this was what the instructors wanted me to do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marc gledhill, you'll be fine with New Gen
We had a ridiculous situation over Xmas waiting to get on lift at Vallandry, there was about 10 over protective English adults all desperate to get on the chair, with their child. As a result the line was going nowhere as there were no other adults to take the kids on with!!! Still it meant I queue jumped them all, grabbbed the first kid and was off.
The only lift I don't like in Vallandry is the little lift which serves the bowl at the top of the Vallandry chair (2300 its called I think) - this has no foot rest and my kids always looked like they were about to slide under - the poles across them technique is very useful
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marc gledhill, I'm sure I've read on Epic that (in the US) if you take responsibility for a child on a lift then you really do take responsibility. I wonder what the situation would be if the child did fall off the seat?
I've assisted a few but I do wonder...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, yes I am constantly amazed at that, given their ability to sue for anything
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marc gledhill,
Marc, thank you for your advice on this, I have been biting my nails & stressing about this for about 2 months - our eldest was quite big, first time she went on a chair, but the youngest (4) is extremely confident & I have been worrying about her & the lift. She is pretty obedient when necessary though.
The one complaint I have about the ESF is that they teach the kids to go off on the little trails by the piste, I'm sure it gives them confidence & is a distraction, but it scares the cr@p out of you when they suddenly shoot off & appear in the trees about 50 metres away.
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You know it makes sense.
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rpft, Believe me, it scares you even more when they don't re-appear
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frosty the Snowman, thats the worry isn't it? I'm going to get one of those retractable dog leads for my 4 yr old - trouble is, she'd probably love it, "do it again mummy"
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman, have you actually lost one on one of these trails?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rpft, have a look here. it is a report from a holiday we had last year. No ski school involved. Adult at front, adult at rear, six kids in-between, luckily the 4 that got lost belonged to the adults involved. Scared the bejeesuz out of us all.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, Thanks for this - at the 'after 25 minutes' bit I was on the edge of my seat
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Although this is a chilling tale - it ended well & is accompanied by a great guide for parents. Is there a place for informative posts?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rpft, not on snowHeads
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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marc gledhill, did I mean threads?! 
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rpft, Very kind words. Thank you. 
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Frosty the Snowman, Good list - one of ours took to not waiting this holiday and got a right earful. Is my major panic that when I take the twins out I will lose one of them!
This year I put our phone numbers on a bit of card and zipped it into their pockets with lift pass with the instructions to find a lift man/woman at any lift and to hand the numbers over if lost
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've lost count of the number of times that I've travelled on a chair with my hand clenched in the back of a kids jacket and once thought that the off ramp was so iced over, rutted and busy that I carried the wriggling ankle biter off with me, missed the crowd, fell over with the squirming animal and got the laces on a boot severed . . . little sod was laughing his head off . . . as were his mates
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