 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Shocking not to even link back to you!! Have you emailed them??
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Where is Bode Swiller to tell you it's all your fault for publishing anything in the first place? 
Seriously, though I'd say you have every right to be a copyright fascist in these circumstances. Go get em!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, I think you're absolutely right to bring this to their and the wider ski community's attention. For a organisation that requires membership for content which it believes to be be both valuable and their intellectual property, it's quite hypocritical to continue to do what they have done. It's disgraceful.
They should not only remove the offending content, they should offer and formal and public apology.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well I emailed them, asking why they copied some pages!
got an out of office reply from a :
Maggie A. Colpus
Maggie.Colpus@skiclub.co.uk
Reception on 020 8410 2000
Cheers,
Greg
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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davidof, Would you like any snowhead ski club members to post a link into the ski club forum. I am sure Mr Goldsmith and others would be very interested.
Must be infuriating to see your work stolen, even if theirs is of much poorer quality and presentation.
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Frosty the Snowman, I just did that  . DG had already posted saying what a good article it was and noting that it didn't say who wrote it.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 29-11-06 18:28; edited 1 time in total
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Hi Greg,
In the past I've let my lawyer deal with the email side but she's not in until tomorrow. In those cases(and it is a pretty irregular occurence for PH.com) they have been contrite and everything... unlike another site which told my brief to sue them if they had a problem!
I don't think I'm an info fascist and have helped loads of news outlets with information, documents, photos, most recently the Observer, Times and BBC.
I will remind snowheads of the time the Ski Club pinched their scoop on the Tignes cable car accident. All pretty irregular occurances but it seems to be a pattern of behaviour.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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......that's not good - in fact that's very bad & I will certainly be adding my 2d's worth to the Ski Club.
I think we all know that Pistehors is pretty generous when it comes to sharing. Common politness dictates the Ski Club should act immediately to remedy this.
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davidof, irrespective of copyright law, that really is discourteous.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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That is really bad and unexcusable, no acknowledgement of your site or article whatsoever - and to even use your photo but cropped so that your copyright logo is no longer part of the photo. They need to have training as to how to use information they glean off the net.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Unhappy to see that. Will comment on the Club site.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
davidof, Would you like any snowhead ski club members to post a link into the ski club forum. I am sure Mr Goldsmith and others would be very interested.
Must be infuriating to see your work stolen, even if theirs is of much poorer quality and presentation. |
Too right DG would be interested. The Club would never hear the end of it !
DG was a stickler for things like copyright - as Snowheads will remember.
He is still a very active poster over on the Ski Club site too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Appalling that the Ski Club of Great Britain should seemingly be party to such blatant plagiarism. There was a recent thread about how an adventure mag had allegedly stolen some MTB pics from a private individual's weblog but frankly this is even worse! Not only is it word for word but it would appear that a deliberate attempt to deceive has been made by cropping out David's pistehors.com copyright stamp! Shocking that the SCGB should allow itself to become involved with such an abuse. My family are all members and I'll certainly be contacting the SCGB to express my sentiments.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Latchigo wrote: |
Too right DG would be interested. The Club would never hear the end of it !
DG was a stickler for things like copyright - as Snowheads will remember.
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It is partly because David has asked me for proof in the past (which I hadn't gathered) that I have made this post and partly because it is an ongoing issue which I would like to sort out. I don't spend my days looking at other websites (apart Snowheads perhaps) and came across this by chance.
From a traffic viewpoint the Ski Club's article will outrank one on PisteHors if people are searching for information and where the article is a copy, the PisteHors article risks getting removed entirely from search engine results (duplicate content) because a Ski Club article will outrank a PisteHors one... thats just a function of the thousands of people who link to the Ski Club's website compared to the hundreds who link to PH.com.
On a personal level the photos I used were part of a set I took on the Pic du Midi in 2004. I had to drive through appauling weather, pay for a couple of nights in a hotel etc. Most of the info about the Pic comes from the director who has a house next door to one of our Pyrenean contributors and a close personal friend.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, I think your response to this outrageous behaviour, more like a school magazine (and a not very good one) than a supposedly grown up institution, is very measured and restrained. I'd be ringing up and yelling at somebody. Your approach is no doubt much more effective and it will be interesting to see how they respond.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, Please keep us informed on this one. I am a member of the SCGB in almost permanent hibernation though I do find the historical snow reports and occasional discounts useful, I would not like to think my fees are contributing to the theft of your copyright.
PS if it would help I would happily PM you my name and membership number.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
Content theft by the Ski Club of Great Britain has been an on-going problem as members of Snowheads, PisteHors and other alpine based ski sites will testify. I've alluded to this problem in the past, most recently here but normally I've dealt with the problem before gathering the evidence. However this time I want to name and shame the Ski Club - they will kill other sites if they continue this leeching and then where will they find their news? A few boring press releases.
This is the PisteHors article. The information was gathered by a friend in the area and from some coversations I have had with the locals:-
and voila
Here are the two news stories:-
http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0644-pic-du-midi-opens-access/
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/item.asp?intCategoryID=1&intItemID=4326
The photographs, which the Ski Club has cropped the copyright from, were taken by me as part of a photoshoot on the Pic du Midi of some professional skiers in December 2004.
Now I'm not some kind of copyright fascist. If people want to quote from PH.com articles or even ask me for photos to use then I'm always sympathetic but here, nada, not even a link back to the original article. Haven't the people at the Ski Club heard of hyperlinking?
I've contacted the ski club on past occassions about this but I guess they've just hired an enthusiastic new news leech who probably thinks how wonderful this interweb thingie is for doing her job.
Anyway enough for now, just putting this down for the record. |
Cut-and-paste is rife across the entire global media industry. It has been going on for decades. So, if true, your plight is not particularly shocking.
I would encourage you to take your story to a ski-friendly newspaper such as The Times, if the SCGB does not respond to your claims. Good luck.
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admin, snowheads often ask for SCGB snow depth information to be published in here. They say things like, 'I know it's members only information, but could someone please cut and paste the info in here, pretty please?'
So I take it that will be stopped too? Yeah right!
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Tim Brown, could you find the thread(s) for us please that state that?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, a very opportune moment to raise this, as it's the AGM tomorrow evening. Not decided whether I'll go myself yet.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lets not get down this sidetrack - posters who do give snow report details credit the info to SCGB and don't claim it as their own knowledge. SCGB snow reports are widely available on other sites.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=20813
is one example. You'll have to find the others yourself. I paraphrased the bit above, obviously. |
I deleted my previous reply in error but I don't believe that the Ski Club has any copyright on this information as it comes from the Tourist Office figures not from their own measurements. The ski club's particular arrangement of the figures may be subject to copyright. However I do agree with your general point. There are also a lot of examples of cut 'n' paste on the Ski Club's forums too.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 29-11-06 20:05; edited 1 time in total
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=20813
is one example. You'll have to find the others yourself. I paraphrased the bit above, obviously. |
Tim, quite apart from the question raised by davidof's post about the snow depth information being published by the Tourist Offices, surely the pertinent point is that in the quoted thread the SCGB is clearly identified as a (if not the only) source of information. In the case of the Snowheads and Pistehors features, the SCGB articles made no references to the source of the information.
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You know it makes sense.
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The scgb collated the information, that makes them the copyright holders in my opinion.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tim Brown, It's not down to legalistic stuff, it's the common courtesy of crediting the source of the info.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Tim Brown, you're not exactly comparing like for like here are you?
Stuff gets posted back and forth across the forums all the time, as you well know - In fact, I'm given to believe that the post by davidof that started this thread has already been copied to the SCGB's members' only forum. Now, unless it was copied by davidof or with his express permission, technically this breaches snowHeads' T+C's and I suspect it breaches the SCGB's as well but, to dwell upon something so petty, would be a total waste of precious life. So let's not eh?
However, it is quite a different matter for an organisation itself, to copy content from another site and publish it as its own. Articles such as davidof's involve a great deal of dedicated effort to generate. This is respected by not copying articles in their entirety and is noted by crediting the origins of stories by linking back to source. SnowHeads does this as a matter of policy whereas the SCGB appears to excercise a specific policy of not doing so. In netiquette terms this is considered somewhere between rather impolite and downright dishonest.
But, to copy a story in its entirety and then go as far as to trim copyright marks from someone's photographs is frankly a disgrace. Indeed I don't see how anyone do such a thing without being fully aware they were doing something wrong.
'Members only SCGB snow depth information published in here' you say? Not by me and I assume, if it has, it's source would have been credited, no? (eg. here's the SCGB snowdepth info for xxxxx) Let's face it, in practice this is some of the best promotion the club could get!
But what if I did copy it myself? What if I collected this data routinely from the SCGB and then created a new 'snowHeads snowDepths' facility? No link back to the SCGB, no mention of them at all. And u know what, I'll just grab any graphs and graphics too and de-brand them. You'd call that theft woudn't you? And I'd agree.
I'm afraid that is a far more accurate parallel to draw with what the SCGB appears to have done to Piste Hors.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 29-11-06 20:34; edited 3 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Steve Sparks, indeed, which is why permission should be asked for, even for snow depth info.
Avalanche-net also publish historical data and at the bottom of each page it says ©Avalanche-net.
So
1. Ask permission
2. Give source.
3. Link back.
in all cases, not just when it suits.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
davidof, Would you like any snowhead ski club members to post a link into the ski club forum. I am sure Mr Goldsmith and others would be very interested.
Must be infuriating to see your work stolen, even if theirs is of much poorer quality and presentation. |
Too right DG would be interested. The Club would never hear the end of it !
DG was a stickler for things like copyright - as Snowheads will remember.
He is still a very active poster over on the Ski Club site too. |
I have the highest respect for www.pistehors.com and their articles are superbly written. Whenever, as I recently had to, refer to some educational matters regarding avalanches, it was to them I referred. And when that subject comes up they seem to be the expert in that area and give them the due credit.
I think on this occasion we must be grown up and put our hands up and the SC is at fault.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 29-11-06 20:38; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Tim Brown, So go tell that to your SCGB contacts, who fail on all 3 counts, not just 1 or 2. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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AxsMan, not defending that, old boy.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tim Brown, so what WAS your point old boy? 
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davidof, Have emailed a complaint to SCGB, got the same out of office reply mentioned above. Looks like someone is keeping their head down
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AxsMan,
To be fair a lot of people are out of office at this time of the evening
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This is why I am not a member of SCGB anymore
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