Naming and Shaming the Ski Club of Great Britain

A snowHead

Content theft by the Ski Club of Great Britain has been an on-going problem as members of Snowheads, PisteHors and other alpine based ski sites will testify. I've alluded to this problem in the past, most recently here but normally I've dealt with the problem before gathering the evidence. However this time I want to name and shame the Ski Club - they will kill other sites if they continue this leeching and then where will they find their news? A few boring press releases.

This is the PisteHors article. The information was gathered by a friend in the area and from some coversations I have had with the locals:-

and voila

Here are the two news stories:-

http://pistehors.com/news/ski/comments/0644-pic-du-midi-opens-access/

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/item.asp?intCategoryID=1&intItemID=4326

The photographs, which the Ski Club has cropped the copyright from, were taken by me as part of a photoshoot on the Pic du Midi of some professional skiers in December 2004.

Now I'm not some kind of copyright fascist. If people want to quote from PH.com articles or even ask me for photos to use then I'm always sympathetic but here, nada, not even a link back to the original article. Haven't the people at the Ski Club heard of hyperlinking?

I've contacted the ski club on past occassions about this but I guess they've just hired an enthusiastic new news leech who probably thinks how wonderful this interweb thingie is for doing her job.

Anyway enough for now, just putting this down for the record.

A snowHead

Shocking not to even link back to you!! Have you emailed them??

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Where is Bode Swiller to tell you it's all your fault for publishing anything in the first place? rolling eyes

Seriously, though I'd say you have every right to be a copyright fascist in these circumstances. Go get em!

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davidof, I think you're absolutely right to bring this to their and the wider ski community's attention. For a organisation that requires membership for content which it believes to be be both valuable and their intellectual property, it's quite hypocritical to continue to do what they have done. It's disgraceful.

They should not only remove the offending content, they should offer and formal and public apology.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Well I emailed them, asking why they copied some pages!

got an out of office reply from a :

Maggie A. Colpus
Maggie.Colpus@skiclub.co.uk

Reception on 020 8410 2000

Cheers,

Greg

You'll need to Register first of course.

davidof, Would you like any snowhead ski club members to post a link into the ski club forum. I am sure Mr Goldsmith and others would be very interested.

Must be infuriating to see your work stolen, even if theirs is of much poorer quality and presentation.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Frosty the Snowman, I just did that Very Happy

. DG had already posted saying what a good article it was and noting that it didn't say who wrote it.

After all it is free

Hi Greg,

In the past I've let my lawyer deal with the email side but she's not in until tomorrow. In those cases(and it is a pretty irregular occurence for PH.com) they have been contrite and everything... unlike another site which told my brief to sue them if they had a problem!

I don't think I'm an info fascist and have helped loads of news outlets with information, documents, photos, most recently the Observer, Times and BBC.

I will remind snowheads of the time the Ski Club pinched their scoop on the Tignes cable car accident. All pretty irregular occurances but it seems to be a pattern of behaviour.

......that's not good - in fact that's very bad & I will certainly be adding my 2d's worth to the Ski Club.

I think we all know that Pistehors is pretty generous when it comes to sharing. Common politness dictates the Ski Club should act immediately to remedy this.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

davidof, irrespective of copyright law, that really is discourteous.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

That is really bad and unexcusable, no acknowledgement of your site or article whatsoever - and to even use your photo but cropped so that your copyright logo is no longer part of the photo. They need to have training as to how to use information they glean off the net.

snow reports

interesting, in all their stories, they only credit one source, which is Eurosport on this article:

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/item.asp?intCategoryID=1&intItemID=4346

Cheers,

greg

Unhappy to see that. Will comment on the Club site.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Appalling that the Ski Club of Great Britain should seemingly be party to such blatant plagiarism. There was a recent thread about how an adventure mag had allegedly stolen some MTB pics from a private individual's weblog but frankly this is even worse! Not only is it word for word but it would appear that a deliberate attempt to deceive has been made by cropping out David's pistehors.com copyright stamp! Shocking that the SCGB should allow itself to become involved with such an abuse. My family are all members and I'll certainly be contacting the SCGB to express my sentiments.

A snowHead

I'll confirm that in my experience, beyond the basic expectation of a little politeness where credit is concerned, davidof's attitude to the propogation of PH's content is relaxed, even generous.

Yes, we had exactly the same problem with SCGB once - IMO it's hardly out of character, more the 'norm' where they're concerned Twisted Evil

I suggested that not to link back to source was highly rude and the person I spoke to, although very pleasant, expressed 'fear from above' if they were to link to us. In the end, to their credit, they 'took a chance' by linking the article back to us and two other sites - both of whom had got it from us too rolling eyes

They didn't even credit us first Evil or Very Mad

I don't blame the individual but the apparent culture within the organisation.

snowHeads would not use Piste Hors' content without credit and neither would the Times so it has the appearance of conceit that the SCGB should think they're above it.
Perhaps they credit Eurosport because they are afraid of Rupert Murdoch - or perhaps they're sucking up to get content for their web TV plan?

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

davidof, I think your response to this outrageous behaviour, more like a school magazine (and a not very good one) than a supposedly grown up institution, is very measured and restrained. I'd be ringing up and yelling at somebody. Your approach is no doubt much more effective and it will be interesting to see how they respond.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

davidof, Please keep us informed on this one. I am a member of the SCGB in almost permanent hibernation though I do find the historical snow reports and occasional discounts useful, I would not like to think my fees are contributing to the theft of your copyright.

PS if it would help I would happily PM you my name and membership number.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

admin, snowheads often ask for SCGB snow depth information to be published in here. They say things like, 'I know it's members only information, but could someone please cut and paste the info in here, pretty please?'

So I take it that will be stopped too? Yeah right!

After all it is free

Tim Brown, could you find the thread(s) for us please that state that?

davidof, a very opportune moment to raise this, as it's the AGM tomorrow evening. Not decided whether I'll go myself yet.

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http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=20813

is one example. You'll have to find the others yourself. I paraphrased the bit above, obviously.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Lets not get down this sidetrack - posters who do give snow report details credit the info to SCGB and don't claim it as their own knowledge. SCGB snow reports are widely available on other sites.

snow reports

You know it makes sense.

The scgb collated the information, that makes them the copyright holders in my opinion.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Tim Brown, It's not down to legalistic stuff, it's the common courtesy of crediting the source of the info.

A snowHead

Tim Brown, you're not exactly comparing like for like here are you?

Stuff gets posted back and forth across the forums all the time, as you well know - In fact, I'm given to believe that the post by davidof that started this thread has already been copied to the SCGB's members' only forum. Now, unless it was copied by davidof or with his express permission, technically this breaches snowHeads' T+C's and I suspect it breaches the SCGB's as well but, to dwell upon something so petty, would be a total waste of precious life. So let's not eh?

However, it is quite a different matter for an organisation itself, to copy content from another site and publish it as its own. Articles such as davidof's involve a great deal of dedicated effort to generate. This is respected by not copying articles in their entirety and is noted by crediting the origins of stories by linking back to source. SnowHeads does this as a matter of policy whereas the SCGB appears to excercise a specific policy of not doing so. In netiquette terms this is considered somewhere between rather impolite and downright dishonest.
But, to copy a story in its entirety and then go as far as to trim copyright marks from someone's photographs is frankly a disgrace. Indeed I don't see how anyone do such a thing without being fully aware they were doing something wrong.

'Members only SCGB snow depth information published in here' you say? Not by me and I assume, if it has, it's source would have been credited, no? (eg. here's the SCGB snowdepth info for xxxxx) Let's face it, in practice this is some of the best promotion the club could get!
But what if I did copy it myself? What if I collected this data routinely from the SCGB and then created a new 'snowHeads snowDepths' facility? No link back to the SCGB, no mention of them at all. And u know what, I'll just grab any graphs and graphics too and de-brand them. You'd call that theft woudn't you? And I'd agree.
I'm afraid that is a far more accurate parallel to draw with what the SCGB appears to have done to Piste Hors.

A snowHead

Steve Sparks, indeed, which is why permission should be asked for, even for snow depth info.

Avalanche-net also publish historical data and at the bottom of each page it says ©Avalanche-net.

So

1. Ask permission

2. Give source.

3. Link back.

in all cases, not just when it suits.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Tim Brown, So go tell that to your SCGB contacts, who fail on all 3 counts, not just 1 or 2. Evil or Very Mad

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

AxsMan, not defending that, old boy.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Tim Brown, so what WAS your point old boy? wink

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

davidof, Have emailed a complaint to SCGB, got the same out of office reply mentioned above. Looks like someone is keeping their head down Evil or Very Mad

After all it is free

AxsMan,
To be fair a lot of people are out of office at this time of the evening wink

This is why I am not a member of SCGB anymore

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T Bar, Fair point, I wouldn't want to be wading through her inbox in the morning! Shocked

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Naming and Shaming the Ski Club of Great Britain

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