As usual, the subject and topic goes way deep, but for now:
My belief is that we need all various flavours of "pole planting" in good skiing, from the plant to stabilise the upper body, the oblique plant to use the torque generated, to the pole touch, for timing and rythm, and also as a tactic to re-stack, or re-centre all the joints.
However, the caveat among many instructors is, that whilst learning to ski, you should concentrate on the feet and skis first, before introducing this concept, as learning pole planting can often mean a backward step in the progress. Thus the feet/skis movements should be well ingrained before introducing the pole plant.
Two most common problems skiers have with their poles is that they plant them too late, and too straight. Skiers who lack an effective pole plant often compensate with some form of rotation, or stem.
And when you're in the steeps and/or moguls, oh boy, you'd better have good solid pole plants!
Here's a slow motion sequence on YouTube - the muzak is horrid, but in slow motion, you can see that when the going gets tough, the tough pole plant. This is the tough and steep section.
You can tell they are planting rather than touching, evident by the amount of bend in the pole. There'a also a double pole plant in there.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
veeeight, nice muzak. Is that video anything to do with our Frosty the Snowman (as was)?
Also, not sure if it's the camera angle but do you think the skier's plant when turning to his left is stronger than when turning to his right? If so, good to see even those at the top have imperfections!
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 21-11-06 16:09; edited 2 times in total
spyderjon, Hopefully he continued to get you to use your edges and not stand too much on top of your skis.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
veeeight, does anyone actually advocate not planting?
It's always part of lessons I take.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
does anyone actually advocate not planting?
Yup. Plenty of folk out there who insist that it's no longer necessary. These are the ones that don't look dynamic when they are skiing.
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marc gledhill wrote:
veeeight, does anyone actually advocate not planting?
It's always part of lessons I take.
Maier and Miller et al don't do much pole planting in the down hill races maybe they need to get up to see veeeight for a lesson or two.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
OK DH excepted.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
veeeight wrote:
OK DH excepted.
Oh come on it starts off with a double pole plant.
Seriously though I believe it depends on the terrain and ability of the skier. The DH'ers certainly look dynamic but aren't swinging poles around. What they can ski down dynamically I could only fall down but there are often times when on an easy red when no one is around I just let em go without using the crutches. In my book it's not always about looking good or doing it a pet way one particular ski instructor would wish, it's having fun that counts.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
....Oh come on it starts off with a double pole plant.....
DB, very good
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
easiski wrote:
spyderjon, Hopefully he continued to get you to use your edges and not stand too much on top of your skis.
Too much bump tuition prior to PSB. Was back to angulation/inclination at Castleford last night - honest
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
veeeight wrote:
......However, the caveat among many instructors is, that whilst learning to ski, you should concentrate on the feet and skis first, before introducing this concept, as learning pole planting can often mean a backward step in the progress. Thus the feet/skis movements should be well ingrained before introducing the pole plant.....
That's how I did it (still struggling getting the feet/ski movements ingrained ) & introducing the pole plant did tend to upset things a bit. However I've friends who were being taught to pole plant very early on & it was obvious that they were being asked to do too much at once.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
spyderjon, that's exactly the point. I don't know any instructors who say pole planting is no longer necessary at all, but many who now think (as I do) that it's only necessary at higher levels, ie: bumps, deeps, steeps and poles. Until peeps are ready for these, as you say, it can upset things. that's not to say that it shouldn't be taught before going into these techniques/terrain of course.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
DB, it's quite tricky to get your DH pole into position given the length...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
So sometime ago we had a thread about pole planting, and one before that about the necessity of pole straps.
Here is a video, of near perfect, good, solid, positive pole plants being demonstrated.
If you watch the slow mo sequences - you can see that his pole plant is ahead (oblique) - and the "thump" when it connects to the ground, transmits the force/impulse all the way up his arm to his shoulder - indicating the good solid "connect" his pole has with the ground.
Without pole straps your hand will be struggling to maintain it's grip, plus the strap also aids in the transmission of the forces/impulse. However, if you're not skiing at this intensity, then no, the straps won't do anything for you.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
veeeight,
I will say that my instructor made me spend more time skiing without poles than with at least in the early days.... but then he was also the one that insisted I learn to use them when making long turns and told me when I could do it properly THEN I could choose to leave them out...
However atm I don't think pole plants are my largest issue to work on so I'm ignoring that area for a bit...
I do know folks on both sides of the fence... and also those like my instructor above who argue to worry about feet/skis/legs until they work well first....
So I guess I'm fence sitting... yes I feel the NEED for them on steeper terrain... but YES I can ski without them (like when dragging someones ski down to them)... and on training terrain I really don't NEED them.... I should like however to learn to use them BETTER as i know this will stand me in good stead eventually...
little tiger, Try watching it twice. It may play better 2nd time around.
A rather extreme example, and quite stressful on the wrist I would imagine. I have worked hard on the pole plant/flick this year, and I must asuy that I think it has really helped with control and balance, almost to the stage it is becoming automatic. Think I need some new poles now though as the old grips are very harsh on the hands.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Frosty the Snowman,
I tried 3-4 times.... it is a series of jerky stills and the feet/skis are often quite blurred also
After all it is free
After all it is free
Check for a leak in the high pressure steam feed into your computer!.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
LT, or anyone else, if you're having trouble streaming it you can download it from this link:
No, can't do that either. It's asking me for a disk that I no longer have . Never mind, (insert "oh, what the hell" smiley).
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hmmm... Interesting topic. Once, a well known ski instructor told me that the strongest aspect of my skiing was my pole planting. In those days it was the last thing I wanted to hear from an instructor, consequently my ego plummeted to an all time low. What I earnestly wanted to hear after a week of intensive video instruction was that my angulation and steering had improved tremendously. But it took some time before I realised that my instructor wasn't saying to me that the rest of my skiing was rubbish, but simply stating that my poling technique was the discipline that stood out most. I go on to say that my correct poling has increased my confidence tremendously in tackling very steep runs, steep bump runs and glade skiing. Correct poling certainly cuts out lots of hard work and premature tired legs.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. Never mind, (insert "oh, what the hell" smiley).