 Poster: A snowHead
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Four adult Americans on a ten day trip with skis and boots flying into Geneva on the way to Chamonix. The literature says we should have a car to see the Chamonix area and maybe go thru the tunnel to Italy. A small European car will not carry our group and gear. Can we easily rent an SUV or other vehicle large enough to carry our group and bagage or should we take a bus?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Steve Turner,
Here is an alternative view... You can get about the valley well enough on a bus, they are free and quite numerous, just do not expect an orderly queue from some continentals, its a free for all. There is also a train up and down the valley which isn't used so much for skiing but would be useful. The car parks get full in the GM, Brevent and Flegere...can't recall Le Tour.
The Mont Blanc road tunnel is long and costs ----guessing---- about 35$ return. There is a bus through but I have never used it.
On the Italian side do not try to park at the main Courmayer lift, use the Entreves lift which has ample parking and is the 1st lift on the righ you will see coming out of the tunnel.
We often end up in cars in the valley but that is because we have travelled from the UK via car anyway. It wouldn't bother me at all to get around the immediate valley on a bus.
To get further afield, like Megeve (25 mins ), Le Contamines ( 30 mins) and even further to Flaine, ( 1 hr ) you will need a car. These are approx driving times.
Chamonix via car is about 50 mins from Geneva but maybe a hassle on a bus, there are better taxis.
I have used http://www.holidayautos.co.uk for a good rate. Make sure you hire from the Swiss side as you get chains and a Swiss motorway pass inc. You probably will not need the latter, but its there anyway. You will have to have the former if only for legal reasons.
Check back in here for other bits and pieces, there shouldn't be too much that someone doesn't know about Chamonix
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A small car would be too small, but unless you have mountains of baggage you should be able to cope with a larger car with ski racks? You can rent big fancy things but at big fancy prices. If you are contemplating a fair bit of travelling I think a car would be good, especially if you want to go through and ski in Italy. With four of you sharing costs it would possibly also be cheaper. But yes, the car parks can get busy - you could do some of the local travel by ski bus. When are you thinking of travelling? And where staying?
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Thanks JT and Pam for the advice and the link. This is all completely new to us. It's good to know we can reserve a vehicle that can cary four adults and their ski gear. We'll probably get a small van to get to Chamonix and then use the local transportation around town and between lifts. Our game plan is to start early and avoid the crowds when possible. When that doesn't work, I guess we push and shove with everyone else. We'll be there March 10 -17 and will stay at the Valet apartments. We've never been there but they look very nice on the web. Anyone with any experience with Valet apartments in Chamonix?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Steve Turner - given that a transfer will probably cost as much as car rental then you'd probably be best off renting a car to get to Chamonix (it's an easy drive) and then you'll have the flexibility to take local transport or drive yourself. Certainly, if you're new to the area then a trip to Megeve or Flaine would be a good thing to do. this link will give you 15% off the regular Holiday Autos prices. You'll get four people plus luggage in an intermediate wagon or above if you ask for a ski rack.
JT's view about the frequency of local transport depends where you're accommodation is. Some accommodation can be inconvenient for buses and require a bit of a hike in ski boots.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Steve Turner,
I was in a car rental queue this weekend behind 2 Americans who only realised at the last minute that neither of them could drive a stick shift and there had to go off looking for a bus - You probably no this but it is worth mentioning that stickshift are the standard in Europe and you will have to specifically order an automatic if you want one
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You've picked what is probably the best week in the season - after the French school holidays, slopes will be much quieter, queues less, but still plenty of snow. I don't know Chamonix well but I don't think you'll succeed in starting before the crowds anytime there is fresh powder. Chamonix is not the sort of place where most skiers don't bother to get up the mountain till 10 am. Try Courmayeur for that!
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| Make sure you hire from the Swiss side as you get chains and a Swiss motorway pass inc. You probably will not need the latter, but its there anyway. |
Yes, the Swiss side is much easier all round, and you will need the Swiss motorway "vignette" for the short stretch of Swiss motorway before the border on the fastest route to Chamonix. You can drive through Geneva, off motorway, or even on a very roundabout way through France, but you won't want to. I have rented cars from Geneva (French and Swiss sides) in my time and although I have read on Snowheads that you always get chains in Swiss cars I have not find that to be always the case. Specify that you want them, to be on the safe side. And if the weather is snowy, practice putting them on if you go anywhere they are likely to be needed. I gather from friends in the USA that you can get them put on for you for a few dollars by helpful students earning some extra cash; it's not that way in France!
What sort of skiing is your group looking for? There's huge variety in the Chamonix Valley, though not all in one place. Lot of other good places within driving reach for a day, too, especially if your party is not up for the more extreme aspects of the Chamonix skiing. It's famously good for advanced, off-piste skiers and the mountain scenery is sublime. But there are better places (including Les Contamines and Megeve, as mentioned above) for lazy days or less advanced skiers.
The lift pass arrangements round that neck of the woods are rather complicated, you need to think in advance about where you are likely to want to ski, to choose the optimum pass.
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We understand the transmission issue and that's no problem for us but it is surprising how few Americans can drive a straight shift. My company runs over 300 heavy trucks. We're now buying all automaitc transmissions because we can't find truck drivers who can drive a straight shift! We know enough about chains to know they are no fun. A 4WD SUV is probably the way to go for us.
In North America the slopes are rated beginner-intermediate and expert with the extreme sking usually noted as "experts only". We go anywhere except the experts only. No jumps, no cliffs and no rocky couloirs. I really do not know how that relates to the European trail ratings. I'm confused by articles about some large resorts and glaciers indicate they are rather flat while other trail maps show only one run for a massive peak with a big cafe at the top served by a cable car. Obviously you could not build a resort that catered only to begineers and you can not dump a cable car full of people at the top of one slope and expect them to all get down the same trail. We've read the books but we obviously still have a lot to learn.
Our apartment is supposedly close to the Brevent lift. Our plan is to try that the first day to get a feel for the trail system and go from there.
We don't know anything about European style off-piste. In the USA, off-piste is usually in the trees but in the Alps there aren't many trees above 3,000 meters. We all can, and do, ski the trees and the bowls with natural snow.
We'll have a day and a half in Geneva. Anyone with any suggestons on sight seeing for the short time we have there?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Steve Turner wrote: |
We don't know anything about European style off-piste. In the USA, off-piste is usually in the trees but in the Alps there aren't many trees above 3,000 meters. We all can, and do, ski the trees and the bowls with natural snow.
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Are you used to using transceivers and assessing avalanche risk because strictly speaking all Euro off-piste is uncontrolled. Plenty of people ski it without precautions but equally people do get killed not far off the piste every season. If in doubt take a guide or stay on piste.
Don't worry too much & the skiing can be fantastic but it is not the same as the US.
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Steve Turner,
If you have snow tyres the chances of needing chains for Chamonix which is served by an autoroute is very low. 4WD rental is expensive personally I would rather spend money on a guide. You should probably carry chains but oly as a just in case.
Pistes are marked in Europe Green, Blue, Red and Black. Black pistes can generally be done by non experts and are easier than the American double black diamonds in general. Off piste is widely skied but is ungraded and can vary from very easy to Extreme it is basically the whole mountian that is not piste. As pointed out above it is not avalanche controlled and is usually unmarked. On glaciers it may have crevasse danger as pointed out above guidance is recommended if in doubt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you rent from the Swiss side then you'll get snow tyres and snow chains anyway.
I agree with T Bar that 4WD is unnecessary - although you shouldn't underrate the motorway - I managed to change lanes last year going around a bend without moving the steering wheel 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Steve,
If you can get your hands on this book it might help you with resorts/piste overviews/maps/locations etc... and some good general advice about hotels etc etc. Covers most of the big places in Europe/US & Canada.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Where-Snowboard-Winter-Sports-Resorts/dp/0953637182/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_a/202-7500801-6721443?tag=amz07b-21
Has some pretty good guides to resorts with transfer times etc.... pass fees... instructors....guides etc. It also give's resort heights in feet and metres and piste size in miles an km's, num of snow cannons.
Also I have gone with four of us in an estate car/station wagon and normally if it has a rack you will have plenty of room.
Hope this helps!! 
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PhillipStanton,
I believe you are meant to turn the steering wheel as you go round bends and up or down unweighting is generally considered insufficient. 
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You know it makes sense.
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T Bar - that's such an old fashioned approach to going around bends - haven't you heard that absolutely noone is doing that now 
Footnote: another 20cm and the car would have developed some serious "sidecut".
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Steve Turner, T Bar is correct to point out the crevasse dangers, above all in Chamonix, where much of the best off-piste skiing is on glacier (notably Argentiere). The Vallee Blanche run is a must-do off-piste run, long and beautiful; it is technically easy, at least by the standard route, but it is also heavily crevassed and I have seen people being taken out of the crevasses there, which is not pleasant. A guide is essential, in case of weather closing in badly.
Do take a car, take it from the Swiss side, but you probably won't need 4WD.
You will have a great time!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have not read all of this thread but dont forget gas prices are almost double what they are in the US,plus there are road tolls, parking charges & also you must make sure your rental car has all the legal gear if you rent in one country and take it to another i.e. Spare light bulbs. something to consider.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can buy bulb packs (12v standard plug in) in a garage and road tolls are not that expensive when just going around the alps. Going between France and Italy will cost a few quid, but then the tunnel wasn't built for free. In Italy you are meant to carry a high-visibillity vest http://www.dogsaway.co.uk/motoring/vests.htm (watch out for the radar guns!!!) Just get your hands on a vest before you travel. For the amount of miles you are doing, plus there are 4 of you, it will not be that expensive on fuel. If you get an estate car you will probably get 30 mpg and remember cars in the US have a lot bigger engines than those in Europe. Most places you can find somewhere free to park. Hope this helps. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Another possibility is that you could hire a car for a couple of days in Chamonix itself (arrange in advance). I've made a list of their numbers here.
http://www.chaletlaforet.com/chalet/carhire.html
SUVs are expensive but 4 people should be OK in a a reasonable size car with a roof rack...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Steve Turner, myself and four (big) friends wll be out there at the same time. We skied the same week in Chamonix last year and it was great - quiet slopes, fantastic snow, blue skies. We hired a Citroen Xsara (or equivalent) which is a kind of shrunken MPV. Five separate seats and a decent sized boot. We all had big bags and boots, and there was plenty of room. We didn't have skis, but it's very easy to rent a ski rack. There's no real need for 4WD. I would definitely advocate driving whilst in Chamonix - it just makes your life a lot easier.
I'd echo the others' sentiments about getting a guide if you're thinking about off-piste. The only place you might be able to leave the trails safely without one, is up in Le Tour. I can heartily recommend getting hold of the Snowmole guide book , if you can. We found it very useful.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I just read your question about off-piste in Europe. Read my post in epicski I mentioned above - I wrote long screeds in that explaining the difference between USA and Europe.
I wouldn't go as far as Rainman, there is off-piste near the pistes (at places like Argentiere) which is accessible without a guide if you take care. But if you want to do more adventurous things (like the Pas de Chevre for example, or the more interesting ways down the Vallee Blanche - the main way is for off-piste beginners - and other things where you need to come back on a train) then you need a guide.
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