 Poster: A snowHead
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Countries have different definitions and I would welcome some feedback as off piste to me meant say tree bashing or off tracked or groomed piste within the ski area. Reading some of the threads here off piste means skiing outside the ski area boundary. As a visitor to Les Arcs next year from NZ I want to ensure I'm covered.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My understanding of France is that on piste refers strictly to areas within the marked edges of the pistes, typically thin poles placed at intervals on either side of the piste. Off piste refers to everywhere else. There are anecdotes of people taking a shortcut from one piste to another who get hurt and are considered to have been off piste. Contrast this to countries such as America that have "in bounds" and "out of bounds" where the trails are just part of the "in bounds" area.
Another term to watch out for is an "itinery". These are shown as runs on piste maps but are not actually pistes. Your insurance company might explain their interpretation.
If you want to go "tree bashing or off tracked or groomed piste" in France then ensure your insurance allows for off piste skiing. Also check whether it restricts the off piste skiing to being with a qualified guide or ski teacher.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My understanding is the same as Adrian's - off-piste is everything other than the marked pistes on the piste map (whether they have been groomed or left to develop bumps). In general Europe doesn't have the same notion of a ski area boundary as the North America (or NZ?); you're either skiing on a marked piste or you're skiing off-piste.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yup. I'd go along with the above.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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However it might be worth checking Adrian's point about itineraries (if Les Arcs has any: have you checked the piste map?). These are not groomed, but are secured against avalanche. Several resorts, such as Zermatt and St Anton has them, and usually they are old blacks which have been regraded. Usually the reason is the increased letigenousness of skiers which might otherwise now cause many of these runs to be closed a lot of the time due to fear, by the resort management, of being prosecuted if someone hurts themselves on, for example, ice, ruts or an exposed rock. Calling them itineraries means they do not take responsibility for the detailed state of the snow.
Personally I would expect them to be considered as pistes.
But if there is any chance you might want to try some off-piste, why not insure yourself with a company which covers off-piste as well. Many do.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 13-11-06 11:17; edited 1 time in total
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My insurance covers me for 'On- and off-piste skiing' (but not heli skiing or 'ski stunting' (?)) but I must
'Observe the rules of the resort or area. If in doubt, you should follow the advice of local guides or instructors.
Where off-piste is only allowed in the company of a guide, the guide's advice should be strictly followed.
Inexperienced skiers ... should not go off-piste except under the supervision of a guide.
As a general rule, you should exercise common sense and follow sensible local practices.'
Looks quite generous, but it's all a bit vague. What are the rules of the resort or area? Does this mean that going under any tape is excluded or only if it says 'Don't ski here.' or words to that effect; lots of well established off piste runs require you to duck under a tape. Do resorts ever have in the small print 'Off piste skiing is forbidden.' in an attempt to cover themselves?
I'm very unlikely indeed to want to do anything questionable, but there's clearly room for argument.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| richmond wrote: |
Looks quite generous, but it's all a bit vague. What are the rules of the resort or area? Does this mean that going under any tape is excluded or only if it says 'Don't ski here.' or words to that effect; lots of well established off piste runs require you to duck under a tape. Do resorts ever have in the small print 'Off piste skiing is forbidden.' in an attempt to cover themselves?
I'm very unlikely indeed to want to do anything questionable, but there's clearly room for argument. |
I don't think you should worry (at least from the point of view of insurance - obviously you need to consider your own safety).
I have seen "off piste skiing forbidden" in one place in Italy (not meaning a particular run but anywhere!!!), but they didn't mind you doing it, it was just to cover themselves legally. And I think at Saas Fee there is mostly only glacier off-piste so it is forbidden except with a guide - and I think they really mean it.
There is an area on the back of the Aiguille Rouge which is National Park (and also very avalanche prone) wich is forbidden without a guide - so take that seriously. It is marked on the piste map - I think, and there are warning notices.
Just be sensible and observe any"closed" signs (you can duck under ropes - they are mostly there so you know you are going off-piste). Stay off the off-piste if the avalanche danger level is high - or go with a guide if in doubt.
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snowball, we have signs telling peeps not to go off the glacier, along with little pix of a man falling in a crevasse. But I don't think it's actually forbidden.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| richmond wrote: |
| Where off-piste is only allowed in the company of a guide, ... |
To me this phrase looks important.
Extending my an snowball's notes on itineries - they seem to be a grey area with respect to insurance. Are they pistes or are they off piste? They are often marked and may be patrolled, they may be avalanche controlled or may not. Perhaps we skiers should treat them as suggested off piste routes but nothing more than that. I only mentioned them so that whakapapa might check their status against his insurance.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| richmond wrote: |
Looks quite generous, but it's all a bit vague. |
Generous to the insurance company I think.
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| Adrian wrote: |
| itineries - they seem to be a grey area with respect to insurance. Are they pistes or are they off piste? They are often marked and may be patrolled, they may be avalanche controlled or may not. |
The ones I mentioned are avalanche controlled - I thought they always were, but I could be wrong - why not e-mail the tourist office.
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You know it makes sense.
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One thing to watch out for is that many policies claim to cover "off-piste" but not all cover "unaccompanied off-piste"
In other words they only cover you if with a guide.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Saas Fee: Hmm, I remember being told that they were strict about not letting you off piste without a guide when I skied down to there once from a heli drop about 10 years ago. However I was either told wrong or they changed, since stuff on web sites about the resort and off-piste don't mention it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Gidday
Thanks for the welcome and advice - the Carre Neige seems to be necessity also. understand this can be purchased for 10 days or more at 25 euro (last year) is this available from les arcs ski club?
Staying at 1800 for two weeks commencing Jan 27th.
cheers
John
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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whakapapa,
You can download all the details of Carte Neige , together with link to Les Arcs Ski Club. Carte Neige costs around 115 NZ Dollars. Check out the policy details & wording in full from the downloads. Have you got an existing annual travel policy, or do you just need one for this trip?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Still to purchase travel insurance, with any sport there are risks involved, its a case of minimising them to get the best out of the holiday without compromising the fun and being able to push the limits at times to get that buzz!
Yes I will definitely need off piste insurance reading the above. Cant wait tho for the white stuff to arrive in Europe mind you spring here and had snow on the hills at back of town to 1000m last week.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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FAQ
I think 
You may be able to purchase this - you can contact them by e-mail