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What atmospheric conditions are most likely to bring snow to the Alps?
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead

I've been looking at the meterological charts produced by the likes of the Met Office (this, for example) and was wondering if there is a typical pattern of high and low pressure systems that is most likely to bring snow to the (Western) Alps. Do storm tracks coming from the west along the North Atlantic bring snow or is it more likely that systems coming from the north or east?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

One for Skanky, me thinks.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

rob@rar, snow clouds? Wink
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Charlatanefc, bugger, I hadn't thought of that one! Now I know what to look for. Wink
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rob@rar, No problem. Anytime soldier Laughing
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snow clouds + cold temps....

your sounding desperate for snow now rob Wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

rob@rar, an interesting question. I think that would be worth also be worth asking on Netweather.tv forum. Like you to me it seems a large Euro High is stuck firmly in place and keeping things far too warm and dry. While Netweather is a UK based forum it would interesting to get an opinion on what to look for on the GFS charts that would be indicative of the right combination.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!

From memory and school boy geography/metrology I seem to remebre that the conditions that give rise to the biggest alpine snow falls are when a north westerly airstream is flowing from polar regions down across the UK and central france. This wind usually contains the most humidity and is cold but is also unstable an likely to allow heavy pecipitation (rainsnow). Not necessarily in the UK but certainly in the alps
A north eastrly airflow from say siberia, although very cold is much dryer and is theefoe quite stable and unlikely to give preciptation (but will be b cold)

Sothweaterly and south easterly airflows are going to be too warm to give any real accumlations of snow, unless they create fronts wth polar airflows right over the alps.

I do stand to be corrected and am willing to take more from those with more in depth knowledge . snowHead snowHead
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kitenski wrote:
snow clouds + cold temps....

your sounding desperate for snow now rob Wink

Not really, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what conditions bring to fluffy stuff. I'm off to Tignes next Saturday and will be doing a GS course there so I don't want too much fresh snow that week. After I get back though I hope it dumps down so that trips in December will be endowed with lots of fresh Smile
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lisach, thanks for the link - I'll take a look across there.
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also rob@rar, try this link http://www.wetterzentrale.de/topkarten/fsreaeur.html Its Archive data back to 1948 I think. Try to compare to a date when you know it snowed or didn't snow etc and see if you can spot a pattern compared to the lastest GFS charts. Good luck!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

lisach, thanks, that's a useful function. I'm only just beginning to find my way around wetterzentrale - it's an amazing website.
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Bryan, Not round here. It's the South Westerlies that bring our biggest snowfalls - you must be thinking of the "other" part of the alps!

On a jollier note: it's been colder for the last couple of days and there's a lot more cloud around. I did spot some high cirrus off behind Les Ecrins yesterday, which would normally mean precipitation within 24-36 hours here. Fingers and toes all neatly crossed.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.

Easiski:
The weather forecasts predicted a significant amount of precipitation above de Southwestern Alps the next weekend:
Estimated snowlevel at 1600-1900m
In Pyreenes, in the northwestern side the snow will be important too.

Meteogram:


Precipitation models:





The 500Hpa map, shows important flux of W-SW winds:


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 11-11-06 14:16; edited 2 times in total
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 brian
brian
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rob@rar wrote:
Do storm tracks coming from the west along the North Atlantic bring snow or is it more likely that systems coming from the north or east?


All 3 can bring snow (plus systems coming off the med from the South, especially if they run into cold air) but the atlantic will usually provide the most moisture. The other big factor is that you want your mountain to be the first thing in the storm's path.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead

brian, It's been raining quite hard this afternoon and the temp was onl 5deg on my balcony, so I'm hoping to see something tomorrow morning. Could have snowed as low as 2000m with that temp. Very Happy Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

Metcheck says you might get a little bit tonight and a reasonable dollop later in the week.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Quote:

reasonable dollop

Is this a new meteorological term?
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at 3pm there was a little snow in Les Saisies at 2000m on their webcam..... snowHead Says they are expecting a light covering by morning apparently
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Once winter sets in properly, then unless you you get a serious set of warm air from the south, any precipitation at altitude should bring snow. It helps if the air's cold to get stuff down in the valleys, so a cold front is best. This could be on the leading edge of a northerly (bot due and westerly) or what's called returning polar maritime air. This latter is cold air from the Arctic that's come south across the Atlantic and then westwards or north westwards across the UK and Europe. NE can be dry, but isn't always snowless. The further south you go, the more you want SW air as it won't lose most of it's moisture across France & the Pyrennees. As long as there's cold air in the system and/or (as brian says) it meets cooler air from the N or NE.

At the moment the seas are still relatively warm, which I think is why Austria tends to do better than elsewhere earlier in winter. But the land is already cooling considerably (we've been in a warming deficit for a while), and once the seas catch up then you're really looking for any moisture that's not attached to air from N Africa.

NB There's probably a few mistakes in there, but I've found all my old Met notes so as soon as I get some free time I'll be re-reading them all which should help.
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skanky, ta very much.
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