 Poster: A snowHead
|
After hiring skis for the last 10 years or so, I've decided to buy this year as I'm expecting to get considerably more snow time 
Since it's so long since I last bought a pair of skis, I've lost touch a little with all the choices. I've generally been hiring fairly fat carvers like Salomon X Screams and more recently Scrambler Hots. I've found these to be pretty competent in all conditions, on and off piste. But bear in mind my previous reference was a 205cm pair of Volkl GS race skis from the mid 90's!!
Anyway, I've read the Ellis Brigham ski guide (had to start somewhere) and picked out the following contenders:-
Nordica Hot Rod Nitrous
Nordica Hot Rod Eliminator
Rossignol Bandit B2 (they don't seem to sell the B3 for some reason)
K2 Apache Recon
I've also read a few reviews on here, but they seem to be quite specific to the intended user. As you will have guessed from the selection above I'm looking for an all-rounder with a bias perhaps 60/40% in favour of on-piste performance. I tend to ski casually off the side of pistes and enjoy mixing it up with trees, powder (if there's any around) and a few bumps. Ungroomed pistes with a foot of fresh powder are my favourite. I rarely venture way off into the backcountry. I like to ski all day, but not flat out the whole time, so I want a ski that isn't going to tire me out in the first hour. I have good technique and would rank my ability level as a strong 8/10. I'm a fairly big guy at around 185 cm and 88 kg and can work skis and bindings pretty hard when pushing on.
I'm open to comments on the above skis and would welcome any further suggestions. I'd also be interested to know what length I should be looking at. I was thinking 175-180 cm based on my previous experience. Budget is fairly flexible as I'm more interested in choosing the right ski. Once I've narrowed the choice down a little, I'll demo them over at MK snowdome. Not sure what I'll learn from that, but it might help.
Many thanks,
UKTM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Demo in resort. You will get a better idea of how they ski in lots of different conditions.
I personally love B2's even though alot of people see them as dull or a "punter ski" They truely are a do anything ski and are very easy to use. They may not do any one thing exceptionally but they do pretty much everything very well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I'd agree with FastCarver, about demoing in resort.
I'd disagree with FastCarver, about B2s...I demoed them and totally hated them. Even demoed another pair of B2s as I thought that the first pair were faulty. Still hated them.
The moral of the story is "horses for courses" "one man's meat is another man's poison".
So try before you buy!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Thanks FastC. I may well demo in resort, but I'd like to narrow it down to no more than 3 alternatives (and not necessarily out of my first list above).
Interesting what you say about many people labelling B2s as "punter skis". I've been using Salomon "punter skis" for years and they're not so bad. I think many people tend to buy skis capable of performance way beyond their own ability level, as it's human nature to want the "best". I see many timid intermediates out there skidding around on £500+ race carvers. Hey, I do the same thing with mountain bikes so nothing to be ashamed of
Anyway, I'm looking for an easy handling all-rounder that will give me confidence in powder and rip the pistes when pushed harder.
Cheers,
UKTM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
rungsp - what did you hate about the B2s and what did you choose instead? Also be useful to know what level you're at.
Thanks for the response. UKTM
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
uktrailmonster, I tried the Recons and Nordica Nitrous at Xscape last year. I found the Recons very dull and the Nitrous fantastic. I bought the Nitrous and having skied 4 weeks on them so far I love them. They are very quick and for want of a better phrase seem to 'love to go fast'. They are excellent for the sort of skiing you propose to be doing and IMHO come pretty close to being a true 'one ski quiver'. If you are a heavier / very aggressive skier, you might want to add a Volkl AC3 or AC4 to your list?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Flappy, vague, unresposive, dead under foot. Awful!
On that occassion I bought Volkl 724 EXP...precise, snappy, responsive, they just felt alive under my feet.
I'm a good skier but not real expert. Whole mountain, however technique gets a bit suspect then the pucker-factor gets high.
Now don't get me wrong...I'm not knocking B2s per-se, thousands of buyers can't all be wrong. They just didn't suit me, I hated them. Horses for courses....you really must demo!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
conor,
Horses for Courses indeed - I found the Recons responsive, easy to turn, great in crud and steep moguls (admittedly I was skiing them very short - 163?) stable, edged well on icy stuff, and, having tried the B2s earlier in the season and found them "nice" then to me, they were hugely significant step up.
Didn't get to try powder - well, you can't have everything I guess!
They were also v. pleasant to ski for the days when I didn't want to put the effort in, just cruise for the views. So (and I stress, for me!) worked well when pushed, didn't throw a hissy fit when being un-demanded of.
I liked them so much in fact, I now have a pair in 167 as supplied by the great and good of Lockwoods, sitting at home waiting for the first snows!
Its lucky we are all different eh? - otherwise life would be extremely dull.
uktrailmonster, demo demo demo!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I've heard crap reviews of the Apache Recons, but again, just keep testing skis ski until you find something that suits you, reviews mean nothing (and I've learnt that the hard way!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JimW, indeed. There are so many variables. Some people like them lighter and more responsive, others damper and heavier. Also probably depends on the conditions in which you demo each ski.
I demo'd at the Xscape, so the conditions were obviously sh*te! Also demo'd the Recons in my first hour and the Nitrous in my second, so I was undoubtedly skiing better in my second hour anyway.
Nitrous were still better though 
I would still like to try a B2 or B3, an AC3 or AC4 and of course a Stockli Stormrider.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Thanks guys. So that's 1-0 to the Nitrous! Yeah I was thinking about the Volkl AC3, but they sound like hard work for an all-day ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| JimW wrote: |
conor,
They were also v. pleasant to ski for the days when I didn't want to put the effort in, just cruise for the views. So (and I stress, for me!) worked well when pushed, didn't throw a hissy fit when being un-demanded of.
uktrailmonster, demo demo demo! |
I like the sound of that. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. So that's a point for the Recon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Been reading a little more and see there's a lot of conflicting reviews, especially regarding the Nordica HRs
Looks like the Rossi B2 might be a bit too tame, but I might demo it anyway. If it's easy to use and performs ok when pushed I might just like it.
I'm also reading rave reviews of Atomic Metron M11 B5s. Only downside I've heard is that they're heavy, which puts me off a little.
Looks like my list is expanding, so please help me chop it down a little!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
imho try a salmin 1080, also slated as a punter ski, but does me fine as an all round ski for skiing with kids, on piste & steep n deep, can show video for the latter!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Thanks kitenski, I've always got on fine with Salomon punter skis, but I haven't skied on much else in recent years. I thought last year's Scrambler Hot was a pretty good all-rounder, but then I didn't compare it against anything other than the Scrambler 8, which I thought was ok but a little dull. I found them both easy going, but the Hot had more punch. I'm curious to find out if some of the latest "non-punter" skis are really that much better. I was also wondering how much better the non-rental versions are too, as I hear that rental skis are often reinforced to take more abuse, but lose performance in the process. Also the effect of going from rental to fixed bindings. Thanks for the comments so far.
UKTM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Okay, here's what I would try if I were you (considering you don't want TOO long a list)...
Nordica Nitrous
Rossi Bandit B3
Volkl AC3 (don't know why you think it would be hard work for an all-day ski?)
Dynastar Legend 8000
They are all highly regarded skis of similar dimensions that would suit your 'all-mountain' needs and can be pushed hard as well as allowing for easier days. I really believe you'll make a choice if you demo at least 3 of the above.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Scott p3s rock in the park 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Thanks conor. I'll be giving the Nitrous a quick go at MK X-scape tomorrow morning. Haven't skied since March so I'll treat it more as a warm-up than a test. I'll try to demo the others over the next couple of weekends. Not sure why I had the AC3 down as hard work, just the impression I got from reading stuff. I've always liked Volkl skis for their quality etc, so I'll certainly try them. I probably won't buy anything before a few resort demos in late December.
Frosty - no doubt they do, but unfortunately I don't!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
uktrailmonster, don't forget to post your first impressions of the skis you try. Would be interested to know what you think of the Nitrous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
uktrailmonster, I demoed the Recons at MK in a 174 and 181 and found them to be two completely different skis.
The 174 was very responsive, turned quick and felt lively. The 181 felt like a much longer turn radius, floated on the snow and felt like it would be great in powder but turned like an Aircraft carrier. Frosty the Snowman, i think mentioned in another thread that K2's change the consturction in their longer skis and that sounds right to me given what i felt.
What do you weigh?, everyone makes statements on ski type and lenght without given their own statistics which to me is meaningless. Weight is a huge factor, the right ski for me isnt going to be right for a shorter guy that weighs 30kgs less.
I am 6'4" 99kg and assumed i would be buying longest offered .I skiied apache crossfires 181's last year and loved them but i am going to buy the shorter 174 recons because they were more FUN  to ski and will hopefully give me the one ski I need.
ps... Snow and Rock are offering a £75 trade in for your old skis this weekend only.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
scottp,
nice to hear someone else positive about the recons!
fyi: I am 6' 0" , 89Kg (courtesy 1 lardy belly - trying for 84 before I ski in Jan...) and have gone for the 167s.
What did you think to the crossfires?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've had a pair of 181 Recons for the last couple of seasons and think they're fantastic. Bombproof going long radius at speed on hardpack, but more than competent off piste. They can however be hard work if you're trying to get them to turn really tight; but overall, by far the best pair of all round skis I've ever owned.
However after two full seasons' use they're getting knackered and I'm looking to try something different - it's got to work off piste but at the same time realistically I do most of my skiing on hardpack (particularly as now based in Scotland!). Brighams are raving about the Scott Mission which is fatter (and therefore good in the soft stuff, apparently), but has a shorter turn radius, but evidently is still stiff enough to cope at speed on harder stuff..... sounds ideal... anyone tried it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
JimW, the crossfires were great, fast on piste really stable and held an edge all through the turn. I think they suit the bigger bloke and i share your beer gut problem and the perenial 5 kgs to go... i was going to buy crossfires but when i tried the recons at MK i felt that although wider and longer turn radius they turned quicker for me and the shovel had a bit more flex. motatapu, the demo guy told me that this years recon has been redesigned and has some sort of progressive side cut and are a quicker ski to turn than the previous version. also said that the crossfire was basically the same ski.
my dilema is that i enjoyed the 181 crossfires but felt the recons in the 181 hard to turn and felt unweildy . I couldnt make up my mind but in the end my good skier mate asked "which was the most fun to ski" and hands down it was the 174 recons.... so i recon althougha bit shorter the extra width will keep me floating and will be buying a pair tommorrow 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
scottp, Similar to motatapu I've had Recon's for a couple of years and I can honestly say they're the finest skis I've ever owned. That might have something to do with the fact they're the only skis I've ever owned
I can't comment on the other skis mentioned on the thread as I've not tried them.
The Recon's will do short turns if you work them, are great on long GS style turns and have enough area for some fun off piste.
If I was buying into the same market again I'd buy Recon's again, as it is I'll be going fatter next time (Scott Missions and K2 Apache Outlaws are on the short list)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
So I dusted off my ski legs this morning at MK with the Nordica Nitrous as planned. They only had the demos in 170, which is short for me as I'm used to 175-180, but not a major problem in the confines of the snowdome. Conditions were not great, icy hardpack and not much soft stuff down the sides. I was also obviously a bit rusty and just finding my feet again. However, I did start to get some feel for the Nitrous towards the end. I can't say they blew me away, but they certainly did feel sharp and responsive. Perhaps a little too sharp for my first outing, as they did catch me out a few times. Certainly not a ski to be lazy with. I'm sure these will fly out on the mountain, but I'm wondering if they might be a bit racey. I'll have to come back to these when I get my act together, as I don't think I did them justice today. I think next up will be the Volkl AC3s and K2 Recons.
scottp - I did state my weight and height in my first post (88kg, 6'1"). I'm trying to creep down to 85kg but I know it ain't going to happen 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
uktrailmonster, i was aiming my comment about not sharing height/weight at people offering suggestions about their ideal skis. without knowing their size it is tough to know if they are the right type.
off to snow and rock to buy some recons.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
uktrailmonster,
I'd put a Stockli Stormrider XL in there for 60/40 as you describe. Stiff and great edge hold - in the Stockli tradition.
If you can rail them then they are right up there - at the very least - but if you skid a few too many, then you miss the point.
Not that they will not do that, but the edge hold sets them apart IMV. Will also take more than a few plunges into deep stuff even though 75mmm underfoot is considered thinnish these days. A stonking ski, IMV
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Cheers JT. So at this point my list is growing, but that's ok for now. I'm not really sure yet exactly how much I want to bias toward off-piste, although I do know they will have to perform pretty well on-piste. I don't think I skid much, I raced gates a lot when I was younger and worked hard to develop a good technique. I ski with quite an open stance, not feet glued together. I also tend to favour short controlled turns down the fall line and between trees rather than long open sweepers, although I do enjoy blasting down blues/ easy reds at high speed. I suppose the bottom line is that I need a decent allrounder rather than a specialist ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
uktrailmonster, haven't tried the Stormrider, but if you think the Nitrous is not a ski to be lazy with, then from what I hear the Stormrider is DEFINITELY not a ski to be lazy with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
motatapu, rich, different skis/purpose there - but if you're interested I've posted my thoughts on those here
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I haven't tried the B3's but I am pretty sure they will work well and along the lines of the skis reviewed in GrahamN's link. I'd take them out blind for a day's guiding, thats how confident I am of the peeps recommendations here
The diff betwen the Recons and the Outlaws would that the Outlaw is just a bit slower turning and a bit more Off-psite orinented. If you said the the Recon was 60/40 on piste, then the Outlaw is 40/60. If you have perfect new snow then both will do a great job in the right lenghts. If the snow is off, I'd would go for a weightier crud-buster that is the Outlaw. If the snow is frozen wind-blown most skis will struggle IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
If the snow is frozen wind-blown most skis will struggle IMO.
|
I'm glad its the skis that can't cope JT - I thought it was me!
Horrible horrible itiniare (sp?) conditions off the back of La Masse in 3V one year - previously wonderful trip down that way enouraged me to take Mrs W the same way: Jeez what a difference. Old, tracked & re-frozen, horrendous: led to severe loss of confidence and marital dis-harmony...
I'll tell her 'twas the planks wot done it 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Just call me biased.
Not into the Rossi, a little lifeless, though the new Sctratches are rather lush construction and do well but not really what you are after. I think the Nordicas are bautifully made, great R&D, good edge hold - need to be constantly in the drivers seat and they like a good heavy hand. Think the Dynastar is a reasonable ski, more grunt in the tail then the rossi so better hold.
Dislike stockli also, too race guy - hence the opener. Some of the all mountian Volkl ski very well however with lots of grrr.
Yeah demo till you drop!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
getoutsideandplay, Does that cover SQUAD on the Rossi front? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
GrahamN, thanks for the link, I found it very enlightening. I'm also coming at this from the point of view of a part time tourer, and in fact I had a pair of Havocs (181 I think) for a season before getting rid of them in favour of the Recons. Havocs may well have changed since I had them but I found my pair hopelessly floppy and lifeless on piste. Thought they rode well in the backcountry, and were particularly good in crud, but in my view the Recons cope almost as well off piste and are infinitely better on harder conditions.
So, from what you've written, sounds like a pair of Missions will suit my ski style nicely.... now all I need is a trip down south to demo a pair - which is ironic as I live near Inverness (and have a season pass for Cairngorm), but no one round here has them!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I had a potter around on the Nitrous yesterday - pretty good and of the ones I tested on a par with Fischer RX9s for general on piste larks & grip. I personally wouldn't buy them as an offpiste/allround ski when there are so many fatter lighter skis around but as an on piste biased model they'd do fine.
Edit to add disclaimer - opinions of skis are highly specific to conditions, tune, weight, aggression, style or lack thereof, hangover .....
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 7-11-06 0:49; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bear in mind when choosing skis that equipment testing is highly, highly subjective.
I was chatting recently with a Product Manager for a tier-1 global ski brand. He told me they have 2 skis on sale this year which are exactly the same internal design, with just the external graphics changed. One is marketed as all-mountain, the other as skiercross. They sent them off to half-a-dozen magazines in the Fall, and they all came back with different opinions about the same two skis!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
It was a lot easier choosing skis in the 80's. First you had to decide between SL and GS. Then pick either the Dynastar Course SL/GS or Rossi 4S/3G!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I tried the Volkl AC3s at MK today. I was pretty impressed with these I must say. Smooth turning, good edge hold on the ice, easy through the crud on the sides, top quality stealth black finish. I think they suited my style and weight better than the Nitrous. They're not as sharp on entry, but smoother and more sure footed. They should be great high speed cruisers and plough through crud easily. I can't imagine they'll be any good in the bumps, but I can live with that. I was thinking how I might feel about the AC4, but I suspect that could be a step too far for a true all-rounder and might be a bit sluggish on groomed. I think the AC3 is plenty of ski for moderate off-piste excursions. I don't think I'll get chance to demo the AC4 so it would be good to hear comments from those who have skied both. I think I'll try either the B2s or Recons next week.
To make my list even longer I'm hearing great things about Head IM 82s. They'll have to be awesome considering how fugly the graphics are!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
