 Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, I'll second the brilliant insoles thing, I could really feel the skis under my feet in the new boots, and it certainly improved my skiing.Cedric did get me to put my toes back down again though, I didn't keep them up all the time. They're very comfortable anyway.
ssh, that's a similar thing to what was used to make my insoles last week, feels like squidgy mud under your foot.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ssh, Conform'able is what I have, and they do vary enormously accoding to the expertise of the bootfitter. I've had them fitted by 3 bootfitters, the first in Aviemore (can't remember who or when) - completely pointless, no difference over the standard insoles, waste of money. The second fitter was Jutta's ex and herself, and they were much better, but the diff when Cedric did them was startling. Not just comfort, but perfect balance too. Not aligning or correcting, but balancing. IMO that's more than enough unless you have Little tiger's feet which are a bit odd. (Sorry Janis) 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| easiski, I'll second the brilliant insoles thing, I could really feel the skis under my feet in the new boots, and it certainly improved my skiing. |
Yes my new insipoles have had much the same effect. Its not just a comfort thing, more of the foot can be used to work the ski (gosh that sounds techy  )
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| blytht, Orthotics for skiboots can be made differently than walking orthotics. The Orthotic for walking helps control over pronation in order to enable us to supinate. |
I'll argue that point ONE of mine actually assists with pronation as that foot is totally unable to pronate without the orthotic
As I understand the podiatrists mumbles about my feet an ORTHOTIC can be built to do all sorts of stuff... in my case each one performs different functions!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| Not aligning or correcting, but balancing. IMO that's more than enough unless you have Little tiger's feet which are a bit odd. (Sorry Janis) |
mumble mumble footbeds, mumble mumble bootfitters.....
I have a collection of footbeds made by bootfitters.... they all SUCK as far as helping my feet go (most specifically the right one)...
So far the collection includes
1) Sorefoot footbeds made standing on computer thingy
2) footbeds from whistler (name of place eludes me atm - wild something) so far these are closest to useable
3) footbeds from the last Epicski Academy bootfitter - I had them made after the ESA because despite previous emails to book a look at feet I could not be seen during the ESA
4) footbeds from Les deux Alpes
Now my orthotics(all 3 pairs to date) were cast with me lying on a table with legs totally supported and only heels off the table.... ALL podiatrists that look at my feet swear this is the only way to cast an orthotic for my feet... ONLY ONE bootfitter has agreed with this - he refused to cast them as they need correction he is not qualified to do... All other bootfitters cast them standing or seated - which places my right lower leg into a twist...
Ski boots HURT my right lower leg... with a skiing FOOTBED I have constant pain in my outside of ankle and foot up to knee....
with my walking orthotic it is a LITTLE less painful
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thanks for the warm welcome folks - as for cat swinging SZK; the room required depends upon choice obviously, for me I choose the rare Andean Mountain Cat naturally, a fine wee lithe speciman to chase around the mountain.... on other notes;
Just to clarify a few points surrounding forefoot varus mentioned by CEM (and this is therfore mainly directly towards him and therefore is written in a geeky terminology). What CEM stated is correct - based on the aspect he was observing the foot. If you assume forefoot varus exists in only 5% of the population, this must depend on the stance angle of the feet. For normal standing stance (abduction) this is between 10 to 15 degrees and any subsuquent varus is refelcted within this normal "toe out" angle. However if we observe the foot within the parameters of the symmetry of ski boots the foot/lower leg actually has negtive "toe in" adduction of about 0 to -3 degrees. The variation in these angles can actually induce a forefoot varus that is not normally apparent. My experince is that a lot of bootfitting problems are caused due to excess loading on the outer metatarsals due to this ski boot induced forefoot varus. There may also exist a dorsi-flexed 1st MPJ due to the firing of the Anterior Tibialias which is a result of the adduction of the forefoot, NOT from using the windlass mechanism of the feet that is used to mould insoles.
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little tiger, I said Overpronation, i doubt your Ortotic is designed to cause Overpronation. 
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no but it does not PREVENT pronation and certainly does not assist supination!!! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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little tiger, An othotic is designed to allow the foot to both pronate and supinate, if it doesn't you don't walk so buy stopping the foot over-pronating you assist in supinating. 
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my foot CANNOT pronate AT ALL without an orthotic.... it ONLY supinates....
so NO the orthotic does NOT assist supination!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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little tiger, Yes, i'm afraid it does, as without supinating, your foot wouldn't work, had the footbed been made badly and therefore forcing the foot to overpronate, it would struggle to supinate, therefore this particular orthotic assists the foot to pronate without reducing supination.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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and here is why I am NOT playing with bootfitters no more.....
bootfitter who has NOT SEEN either foot or orthotic insists that the ORTHOTIC built by a PODIATRIST (hmmm a degree in feet how quaint is that idea when you are going to build stuff for feet) prevents over-pronation when the guy who built it insists it enforces pronation!!!
(Especially as the owner of said foot can verify that weighting ball of foot and/or toe off cannot be done without orthotic in place)
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little tiger, Pronation is an important part of gait, overpronation prevents correct gait. You orthotic i hope enables you to do both so as you can walk properly. I have no doubt your orthotic forces pronation but does it force overpronation, if so it reduces the ability to pronate. As you correctly state, i have seen neither the foot nor the orthotic, i'm just using theory, you know the stuff you learn at Universtiy to get a degree, while the rest of us are getting on with the job.
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You know it makes sense.
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YES - pronation is important... that is why (as my foot does NOT pronate) I have a mangled right knee and have forward rotated my right hemi-pelvis THREE times...
It is also why until i got the orthotic I had constant headaches etc... on my gait video you can clearly see shock waves running up my right leg.... FOOT he no pronate without ORTHOTIC .... he ONLY know how to supinate A LOT.... ie foot is NON FUNCTIONAL as far as normal foot function goes... and the ankle is trashed too!!!!
ask easiski or lampbus - they have seen the damn thing....
it functions poorly as a foot sans orthotic.... but that is only the opinion of the three podiatrists that have looked at it and poked at it (oh not to mention a few physiotherapists and a couple of sports trainers)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, does this mean you're not good enough to get my feet properly fitted to a pair of ski boots? I'm concerned, as you appear to know very little.
Have you ever fitted boots for world cup skiers, or even former ones?
Can you cut my toenails while I'm there, and touch up my nail varnish?
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I have to agree- its a very 'special' foot 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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lampbus,
thankyou....
I've just been on the phone to Oz moaning re the pain in the leg atm... just guessing my small toe sits INSIDE my ankle but not quite inside the inside edge of my kneecap... second smallest toe may almost make inside knee cap....
the damn thing hurts from a blanket resting on it atm....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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lampbus, Second that - very unusual altogether. Actually SMALLZOOKEEPER, you really should see her foot (the other one is more or less OK bTW) - very strange ...... woooooohhhhhhhhhhh 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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little tiger, if your foot hurts, try biting more softly on it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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little tiger, Is that coz you have a small foot?.............
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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little tiger, serious question, have you tried snowboarding? Would that body position help any with your wonky bits?
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it would mean that I would be unable to earn a living if injured (wrists, collarbones etc) ..... whilst on skis I can still earn a living if I bust a leg......
And also as it took me 10 years of damn hard work to build skiing "muscle memory"(stupid term) to allow me to make the moves I need I don't feel too kindly towards starting all over again! I'd rather put the energy into my surfing and skiing exploits...
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You know it makes sense.
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Back to the original point. An Orthotic for the foot is designed to give the foot the greatest range of motion possible, that means varing degrees of pronation and supination but not excesses of either, this is except in the case of little tiger, whom has all the range of motion anyone needs in her mandible.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| An Orthotic for the foot is designed to give the foot the greatest range of motion possible, that means varing degrees of pronation and supination but not excesses of either,. |
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| The Orthotic for walking helps control over pronation in order to enable us to supinate. |
now those 2 statements are not quite the same thing are they?
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, have you got glasses? If so, bring them on Saturday...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yep, if you overpronate there is very little chance in the gait cycle that you will supinate correctly. Therefore by using an orthotic to control overpronation you enable the foot to access a greater range of motion, therefore it pronates and supinates not pronates overpronates.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Yep, if you overpronate there is very little chance in the gait cycle that you will supinate correctly. Therefore by using an orthotic to control overpronation you enable the foot to access a greater range of motion, therefore it pronates and supinates not pronates overpronates. |
but we have already established that not only don't I overpronate but I don't pronate at all
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
Yep, if you overpronate ...
Therefore by using an orthotic to control overpronation ... |
little tiger, in other words, what SZK is talking about doesn't apply to you - since he was talking about overpronation. (or am I too simple to see that he was talking about something totally above my head/below my feet)
Not everything is about just one person.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| blytht, Orthotics for skiboots can be made differently than walking orthotics. The Orthotic for walking helps control over pronation in order to enable us to supinate. A ski orthotic can be made firmer and almost stop any pronation. Therfore you can ski/should ski with your walking orthotic but shouldn't try to walk with a custom made ridgid ski orthotic. The above information depends on the assesment of your bootfitter/podiatrist to determine the reqired amount of support; If they get things wrong, you may and up at the top of this Thread. |
says nothing about any particular walking orthotic...
it says
Orthotic for walking and helps control over pronation
as I pointed out this is blatantly untrue for SOME walking orthotics because NOT EVERYONE overpronates... feet come with different problems.... (my left foot orthotic follows this simple description but my right foot is a totally diferent animal having much more complex problems...)
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Christ on a bike, I can see why SZK doesn't want anything to do with alignment, that would completely fill his head up.
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it is still not controlling overpronation is it?
and no - without orthotic I do not pronate....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SZK
think again on what it means for my small toe to sit almost inside the INSIDE edge of my knee cap when I am relaxed with legs supported in a straight line
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ONLY ONE bootfitter has agreed with this - he refused to cast them as they need correction he is not qualified to do... All other bootfitters cast them standing or seated - which places my right lower leg into a twist...
Quote little tiger.
Only one Bootfitter refused to cast your orthotics, i think you can now make that two. 
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FAQ
