 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey guys, I have a dilemma.
I went to the ski show on Sat and bought myself a pair of k2 Public Enemies - 174cm. It was a toss up between those and the Karmas but after some deliberation I went with the PEs. Last night I awoke in a cold sweat and think I may have gone with the wrong ones. One of the reasons I went with the PEs is cos they were cheaper. I have been told they have essentially the same performance but would love to hear from anyone that has tried both! Since buying them though, I have heard mixed reviews about the PEs and most people never have anything bad to say about the karmas.....
I spoke to EB who told me I can change the skis easily as they have not mounted the bindings yet.
I am looking for a ski that I can use off piste and in the crud when it is available but recognise that a lot of the time I will just be ripping it up on piste. Therefore I want something I can carve well in. I obviously also want to be able to take it into the parks (haven't yet but want to start).
So help me with VOTES PLEASE! Should I stick with the PEs or go with the Karmas?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I vote that you go to the nearest indoor snowslope that has an Ellis Brigham on site, and try both skis out! While it won't help you with off-piste, it will give you some idea of on piste performance.
If you don't live near any EB test sites.......errrr........ask for advice on Snowheads!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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RowFlow, Fear not, either ski will work superbly for the use you've outlined. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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RowFlow, I agree with SZK.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Er, thanks guys. Not overly helpful but thanks for replying nonetheless...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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RowFlow, I have Public Enemies. They are great skis. SZK is a fan of the Karmas.
It is difficult to judge between them - any comments would tend towards pure opinion rather than agreed facts.
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I ride karmas, but I haven't ridden PEs, so treat my advice with that in mind - not all of it might be agreed facts 
For the £80 pounds difference I would choose the Karmas, if you can afford it. Some factors and differences:
-the PEs are cheaper because their solidity can't match that of the Karmas - the Karmas are great quality and great European craftsmanship (that's not to say the PEs are bad quality, however!).
-Karmas seem to come with Scratch binding as opposed to Marker, according to the EB site. The Scratch seems to have a better reputation for reliability and durability than the Marker, especially for freestyle riding.
-Karmas are stiffer, and therefore a better piste-carver and crud buster. But because their stiffness, you might have to work them a wee bit harder than the PEs. So which one you'd prefer really depends on whether you like your skis a bit stiffer or not. Widthwise they are pretty much the same, so off-piste performance might be a personal preference.
-the PEs might be easier to start on in the park because of the stiffness, however. On a stiff park ski, landings can be a bit more unforgiving, and to butter the Karmas you'd have to be a pretty beefy skier. Riding switch on the karmas is stable and fun though.
-the turning radius on the karma is bigger, so wider carves than the PEs - again depends on what you prefer.
-the available lengths - the PE 174 falls between the 169 and 177 Karma, which may or may not suit you better. I should say that the Karma skis very short...
-last season the PEs were everywhere. It's nicer to ride beautiful skis that are not omnipresent
Both are pretty good allrounders, with the Karmas edging it on build quality and performance. I would agree, however, with the sentiment on trying to test them at an xscape with Eliis brigham demos - they have demo pairs of both available - and see which one you enjoy most 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 24-10-06 17:55; edited 2 times in total
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RowFlow, Eh? Mate, you've got one of the best all mountain skis out there, i'd too find it difficult to choose between the two, because they are both so excellent. Karma probably better piste performance, PE better /easier off piste. Don't sweat my friend!
Me, i'd buy the PE just for the Graphics! And that from someone whom has riden the Karma for the last 4 years! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks very much for responses guys. Given me much food for thought.
One thing I had not considered, which was kindly pointed out by Skibomb is that the 174 PE doesn't fit well between the 169 and 177 Karma. I thought it came in a 174 as well for some reason. I am 175 cm tall and usually ride on a 169. I decided that I needed to go to 174 when I bought the PEs but think pushing to 177cm may be too much.
If anyone else wants to have a say then please feel free. All valuable stuff!
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| RowFlow wrote: |
Hey guys, I have a dilemma.
I am looking for a ski that I can use off piste and in the crud when it is available but recognise that a lot of the time I will just be ripping it up on piste. Therefore I want something I can carve well in. I obviously also want to be able to take it into the parks (haven't yet but want to start).
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I'm looking for the same sort of ski and have been recommended to try the
Salomon X-Wing Tornados
K2 Apache Recons
Rossignol Bandit B2
I've tried K2 Apache Crossfires (too stiff and hard work) and Salamon Pocket Rockets (wouldn't carve easily on piste) but didn't like them.
I also tried the Recons but have forgotten what I thought (duhh) .. I took them back after the first day but I think that was because there was no powder around.
Will have to try the PE's in December .. not sure how much point there is trying them on the snowdomes cos I really want them for off piste although Wear The Fox Hat, did kindly offer his to try at Milton Keynes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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RowFlow, Depends on whether the 169s you're used to are twin tips or not? If not, it shouldn't be an issue jumping up to 174 or even 177, especially if you felt that you wanted to go a bit longer.
However, I don't know how heavy you are, but being 175 cm yourself, the Karma in 177 might be a lot of ski for you.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 24-10-06 18:07; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skibomb, I'm 174 and have found the Karma in 177 the perfect ski length. Just to be contrary!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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skibomb, Who said anything about skiing on them, i just wear them in the lounge at home and do spins on the carpet to anoy the people downstairs. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
RowFlow, I have Public Enemies. They are great skis. SZK is a fan of the Karmas.
It is difficult to judge between them - any comments would tend towards pure opinion rather than agreed facts. |
I have the karmas. Fox has the PE's. We will see in December which one eats more snow spray! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, I didn't realise SZK is 'cute' - apologies to him in that case. I've been told the same, so I sympathise
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Having met the SmallZooKeeper in person, I can safely say that he is not even a heavy person let alone a fat barsteward.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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smolo, We've met? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| skibomb wrote: |
I ride karmas, but I haven't ridden PEs, so treat my advice with that in mind - not all of it might be agreed facts
For the £80 pounds difference I would choose the Karmas, if you can afford it. Some factors and differences:
-the PEs are cheaper because their solidity can't match that of the Karmas - the Karmas are great quality and great European craftsmanship (that's not to say the PEs are bad quality, however!).
-Karmas seem to come with Scratch binding as opposed to Marker, according to the EB site. The Scratch seems to have a better reputation for reliability and durability than the Marker, especially for freestyle riding.
-Karmas are stiffer, and therefore a better piste-carver and crud buster. But because their stiffness, you might have to work them a wee bit harder than the PEs. So which one you'd prefer really depends on whether you like your skis a bit stiffer or not. Widthwise they are pretty much the same, so off-piste performance might be a personal preference.
-the PEs might be easier to start on in the park because of the stiffness, however. On a stiff park ski, landings can be a bit more unforgiving, and to butter the Karmas you'd have to be a pretty beefy skier. Riding switch on the karmas is stable and fun though.
-the turning radius on the karma is bigger, so wider carves than the PEs - again depends on what you prefer.
-the available lengths - the PE 174 falls between the 169 and 177 Karma, which may or may not suit you better. I should say that the Karma skis very short...
-last season the PEs were everywhere. It's nicer to ride beautiful skis that are not omnipresent
Both are pretty good allrounders, with the Karmas edging it on build quality and performance. I would agree, however, with the sentiment on trying to test them at an xscape with Eliis brigham demos - they have demo pairs of both available - and see which one you enjoy most |
Hi Skibomb. Thanks for your advice re the Karmas. What did you mean when you said "the karma skis very short"?
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skibomb,
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skibomb,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RowFlow, I meant that because the twin tips and because the nose and tail seem very turned up, the running length feels quite a bit shorter than a regular non-twin tip 177 ski. That's why I asked whether the previous skis you'd been skiing in a 169 were twin tips as well.
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skibomb, Oh I see. No, I was actually skiing on the Volkl 5 Stars in an 169. Thats why, for the twin tips I decided to move to a 174 (I am 175cm tall). Now concerned that 177 may be too much for me to handle... I am only an intermediate skiier. Not sure if I ski aggressively or not - which probably means I don't...
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