 Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure if I have posted this in the right place. Feel free to move to another place.
It is an extract from The Observer published on 8th October 2006.
It's a well written, unbiased, quite amusing article about Bansko.
BANSKO: The Val d'Isere of the future?
With tiny prices, Bansko in Bulgaria is being touted as a rare chance to buy a place in the snow. But can it live up to the hype?
Bansko: Eastern Europe's answer to Aspen. So runs the hyperbole about one of Europe's newest ski resorts. It's a buzz that the resort's developers are understandably keen to perpetuate. Millions of euros are being spent transforming this small Bulgarian town, which lies three long, lacklustre hours from the country's capital, Sofia, into something Brad and Angelina might head for when in Europe and desperate for powder.
Unsurprisingly, given the hype, Bansko's property market has been undergoing a boom. Brits are pouring their pension plans into buying up cheap ski apartments in anticipation that it will become another Val d'Isere once Bulgaria joins the EU in 2007. With prices from around £20,000 it's not hard to see why investors are joining the gold rush. 'I missed out on Croatia, but I won't make the same mistake with Bulgaria,' declare one British couple with almost evangelical zeal in a property brochure.
But are they right? At first the comparisons with Aspen are hard to fathom. There are the potholes for a start. Millions of them, making a drive around the town far more dangerous than anything that could befall you on the slopes. It sometimes seems that Bansko's streets are simply a collection of holes occasionally interrupted by tarmac along which stray dogs wander. Then there's the endless building sites that make Bansko seem like the set for Auf Wiedersehen Pet and make for depressing horizons.
And the hatchet-faced staff at the lift office who stare at you like they've caught you dog-napping their favourite pooch when you attempt to buy a day pass. I can't see Jack Nicholson giving up his seat at the Hotel Jerome for this.
And then there's the skiing. Bansko's got only 65km of runs - 17 in all: one black, four blues, the rest reds. If you skipped lunch you could do them all in a day. And I'm not even sure the reds are really reds. They're more blues - or somewhere in between: purples? Admittedly there are plans to open up more of the surrounding mountains, but this will be some years off. Bansko is definitely not a place for advanced skiers or even enthusiastic intermediates.
That said, I can't think of a better resort for those on a budget looking to start skiing. My hotel - the Orphey - was pretty good. Get rid of the harsh lighting and the pastel colours and it would have been really good. The four stars it had been awarded might seem a bit generous, but it was smart and clean with big rooms, many of which had balconies, a steam room and a blinged-up swimming pool in the basement that looked like it should double for a porn set. I kept expecting Ron Jeremy to walk in dressed as a pizza delivery man.
Breakfasts and dinners in the hotels are usually buffet style. There is a good variety of fish and meat and lots of fresh fruit, vegetables and salad. Around 60 per cent of those in the Orphey were Brits and most seemed happy with the food - a traditional gripe in many ski hotels. The staff buzzed around efficiently delivering drinks.
Once up the mountain the pistes are wide and excellently groomed. The lifts are modern: the gondola that takes you the seven odd kilometres from Bansko up into the mountain would be the envy of any resort in the world.
Better still, when I went, in mid-March, the slopes were roomy with no queues at the lifts. A six-day lift pass costs £128. Six days of ski school will set you back just £100. Package deals are even greater bargains. Several people I spoke to were enjoying a week's skiing, with equipment, lift pass and a bed in a hotel for under £500. Food up the mountain is cheap too: gluhwein is about 70p, a pizza under £4, local beer £1, and surprisingly delicious kebabs £3.
Boarders will enjoy the fun park and the half-pipe while the nursery slope is an easy introduction for children. And for those who make it to the top of the mountain, where they are rewarded with glorious, uninterrupted views across to the horizon, there is the added bonus of a 16km unbroken trip down into town.
And this is where Bansko comes into its own. The mountain above the town is one giant forest which has been cleared in places to create well thought out pistes. The effect is an enchanting descent, which on Saturday nights is lit by lamps allowing for a memorable night of skiing.
Apres-ski is not hard to find. Bansko has a population of 10,000, but 150 bars. Clearly, Bulgarians are thirsty people. Most of the bars are congregated around a central spine, the oldest part of the town which has some quaint, almost medieval-looking taverns that would not be out of place on the Lord of the Rings film set. Inside you are greeted by roaring fires and irritating power ballads that seem to follow you wherever you go. Memo to whoever wrote Foreigner's 'I want to Know What Love Is': head for Bansko, you will be worshipped as a god.
In the taverns a lavish three-course meal for two with very drinkable Bulgarian wine (honest) will come to under £20 and leave you so stuffed you will wonder how you are going to make it back to your hotel.
This is something you get used to in Bansko. Many of the hotels are a couple of kilometres from the slopes making it difficult to get around.
Fortunately all of them offer regular minibus shuttles to the gondola station (a second station is in the pipeline) but at night you'll probably want to flag a taxi - not always the easiest thing to find. There is none of the street-hawking that some people have experienced at other Bulgarian resorts, notably Borovets. Incidentally, when I was there, skiers were being bussed in from Borovets, the country's foremost ski resort, because Bansko had better snow. Those I spoke to favoured the upstart over its older rival.
In the evening there is a 'Brits abroad' atmosphere in many of the taverns. There's Sky Sports in some, quiz nights in others, while pub crawls and copious shot downing seem almost ubiquitous.
For those looking for something else from their ski holiday, there is target shooting, bowling or fishing in Bansko's many surrounding mountain lakes. You suspect these activities will play a greater part in Bansko's future as the property developers look to turn the resort into a year-round destination to attract the hiking and mountain biking crowd.
Indeed, in a few years' time given the money being thrown at it, Bansko is likely to be unrecognisable. Inevitably, this means prices will rise. Learners on a budget might want to get in before Bansko's transformation is complete.
The Observer, Guardian Unlimited
Sunday, October 8, 2006
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spam - the spiced ham of the future?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thank you Cathy appreciate the link.
I saw the posting I made on another website but hadn't seen the actual article.
Cheers 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Not buying it 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bansko - the endowment mortgage of the 21st century?
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fatbob, according to recent reports, probably. Real estate agents are exaggerating the growth of the area in order to inflate the apparent value of property there.
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Well it was an article in The Observer not by an estate agent.
Also property is still really cheap there, exaggerated or not. Compare this to other ski resorts around the world and there is no comparision.
The downside is very limited. Buy cheap, use it, rent it out, then either sell at the same price or a higher price.
If these properties were any cheaper you could buy them on your credit card !!
Not to mention that Bansko has got brand new facilities not to mention many bars !!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bansko, do you work for the local tourist office?
Oh, and one other thing, you may want to edit your first post - it appears to be just a cut and paste job from the Observer, and given the amount you copied, it is probably breach of copyright.
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No I don't work for the local tourist office, if I did do you think I would have posted The Observer article? This is an unbiased and sometimes unflattering view of Bansko.
As for my posting, if the forum are happy to continue having it on here, then so am I. If they want to delete it, as someone kindly put the direct link to the article on here, they can.
I think people try and give Bansko a bad name and they have never been there. We have a property in Bansko that we more than happy with and I am just saying that if people want a cheap skiing holiday this year, then Bansko might be it.
As the article said, I am not sure how long it will continue being this cheap, that's all.
I hope I have answered your questions.
Cheers
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My concern re; Bulgaria is that our local Radio station and many of our local schools are collecting food and clothing to send to the needy in Bulgaria for Christmas an then Iread about how much is being spent by the state on Ski holiday resorts, surely there is a mis-placed priority in the country.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have no problem with a published article being either linked to or copied out here. I don't know much about copyright but I would have thought that as the copied text is fully referenced to the Observer it would be OK. Otherwise, it could be summarised and then linked to.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tourism brings wealth. If Bulgaria can become a holiday hot spot, not just the ski resorts but on the Black Sea Coast as well, this will generate a huge amount of money for the country.
They have just been accepted to join the EU in January in 2007 and if you go there you will see that the EU are already investing a massive amount fo money into Bulgaria. One of the projects they are involved with is improving the road structure, which is vital.
There are many poorer countries around the world that are holiday destinations and if it wasn't for this tourism money they would be in a far worse situation.
The huge amount of building that is going on over there is creating a vast amount of local jobs which is great for the economy as well.
You point is taken but you have to look at the big picture.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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How does the ski terrain at Bankso compare to Val d'Isere? I would have thought that's the key test to see if it is the new Val, not what some hack at the Observer thinks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rob, The Observer mentions what kind of skiing you can expect in Bansko.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bansko wrote: |
| Rob, The Observer mentions what kind of skiing you can expect in Bansko. |
| The Observer wrote: |
| And then there's the skiing. Bansko's got only 65km of runs - 17 in all: one black, four blues, the rest reds. If you skipped lunch you could do them all in a day. And I'm not even sure the reds are really reds. They're more blues - or somewhere in between: purples? Admittedly there are plans to open up more of the surrounding mountains, but this will be some years off. Bansko is definitely not a place for advanced skiers or even enthusiastic intermediates. |
In which case the answer to the thread's title seems to be a resounding no.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The subject was "Bansko: The Val d'Isere of the future".
Comparing the two now is not what this thread is about Rob. It would be like comparing chalk with cheese.
Having said that if we were talking about cost, then there is only one winner.
There are thousands of skiers that are beginners or haven't even been before. If they want a cheap holiday in the snow this year, then Bansko could be the place.
Advanced skiers - keep an eye on Bansko for the future. As the subject suggests !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well said Bansko.
Reading a number of posts on Bulgaria over the last few months, one detects just the faintest whiff of snobbery - masquerading as prudent advice.
The tone of the Observer article seemed reasonably balanced. I don`t know whether Bansko will prove to be a good investment - I hope it does. And no, I`m not a Bansko property owner.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here is the story and background to the Humanitarian Aid that is needed in Bulgaria having read this, I would suggest that to be boasting about wonderful ski facilities is a little galling.
Bulgaria-Humanitarian Aid needed
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I must admit that I'm quite surprised by how expensive Bankso is:
| Quote: |
| A six-day lift pass costs £128. Six days of ski school will set you back just £100. Package deals are even greater bargains. Several people I spoke to were enjoying a week's skiing, with equipment, lift pass and a bed in a hotel for under £500. Food up the mountain is cheap too: gluhwein is about 70p, a pizza under £4, local beer £1, and surprisingly delicious kebabs £3. |
Morzine is 138 euros a for a one week Morzine / Les Gets pass or 183 euros for a Portes du Soleil full area lift pass. Ski lessons with the British Ski School are £125 for a week or 117 euros for ESF.
Food is around the same, although alcohol is admittedly more expensive in France.
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Two points
How much is accommdation in Morzine? You can rent out a brand new, fully furnished apartment in Bansko for £10 a night in peak season (based on 4 sharing). The apartments are located on complexs that have saunas, swimming pools, jacuzzis etc etc. I think that is fantastic value. Direct flights to Sofia can be bought for £50 return. I can send people the link if they wish.
I am involved in building a website for children's orphanage in Elhovo. Somebody has asked me to do this and I have accepted free of charge. Usually I would charge a nice fee for this. I don't need the link thank you boredsurfin, people do their own bit in different ways.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| bansko wrote: |
The subject was "Bansko: The Val d'Isere of the future".
Comparing the two now is not what this thread is about Rob. It would be like comparing chalk with cheese.
Having said that if we were talking about cost, then there is only one winner.
There are thousands of skiers that are beginners or haven't even been before. If they want a cheap holiday in the snow this year, then Bansko could be the place.
Advanced skiers - keep an eye on Bansko for the future. As the subject suggests ! |
Fair enough. Are there actual plans to extend the ski domain so that in the future it might be similar in size/scope to Val d'Isere or the Espace Killy? I recognise that Bansko might be a suitable destination now for beginners and early intermediates, but if I was buying property there I would be wary of overblown claims about what the future might hold for the resort, even if they are phrased as rhetorical questions.
I don't believe that I'm being snobbish about anyone investing in Bansko. I own a small ski place myself and I know how much joy it brings, so I certainly wouldn't want to decry anyone taking the same decision as me regardless of where they buy. But Bansko has received an enormous marketing push in the last few years, and anyone who buys there should make sure they understand what the actual plans are for the resort and its skiing, and what might be vague ambitions for the resort's future. Rhetorical questions like some future comparison with Val d'Isere or Aspen are at best unhelpful and perhaps downright misleading for anyone who might be thinking about investment unless there are real plans and real money ready to back up those claims.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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bansko, I was just looking at your website - I saw the £50 flights, but they only seem to be outbound on sunday night or tuesday night, and back on monday morning or wednesday morning. Am I missing something?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was, like PhillipStanton, surprised at the prices - more expensive ski pass and much more expensive lessons than in our French resort (the Espace Diamant) with 180 km of pistes. If property prices do rise as much as some people obviously hope the comparatively cheap accommodation will disappear too, leaving Bansko with very few advantages, it seems. One point not mentioned so far is snow record, probably one of the more important features of a ski resort. Borovets certainly has a patchy record - how much more snow-sure is Bansko? Off the slopes, call it snobbish if you will, but the Brits abroad atmosphere would certainly put me off the place - Sky Sports and Quiz Nights? Non, merci. However, I wouldn't agree at all with boredsurfin that there is something wrong about developing tourism in a country where some people are very poor. Ultimately ski resorts can produce a lot of sustainable employment opportunities, even when the development phase is over. There are downsides to tourism but the French, Swiss, Austrian and Italian Alps wouldn't want to be without it.
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bansko - to answer your question directly, you'd probably have to pay around 50-70% more for accommodation in Morzine. Balancing that, four adults would be paying £120 in total more for their lift passes and £65 more in total for their ski schoo in Bankso.
Flights would appear to be about neutral.
My comments are out of genuine surprise, rather than being a dig.
I'd have thought that lift prices and ski lessons in Bankso would have been 40-50% cheaper than the Alps, reflecting the same scale of savings as accommodation prices.
The numbers here would suggest that you'd save around 20% over the Alps by going to Bankso. 20% is 20% - and not to be sniffed at - but just less than I thought.
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You know it makes sense.
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bansko - it's worth saying that we're a friendly bunch here. Really. Honestly.
It's just that we're not a crowd that takes claims about resorts are without asking questions. Even (especially?) if the claims are made by The Observer.
I completely agree with rob@rar's last point above.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Philip I understand your point. I am sure you are all friendly !!
Asking questions is what it's all about !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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bansko, yes, I took a look at your site, and then the link to the airline - to fly out on a Friday and return on a Saturday worked out at over twice the price of the flights you quoted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Val D'Isere of the future??? I thought you would be trying to promote the place, not scare people off 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Wear the fox hat - I just did a search and found direct return flights from Luton to Sofia in February for £50 no problem. As with schedule flights you have to book in advance.
Charlatanefc - Nice comment - I have never been so I cannot say thing
Phillip - Does that £700 include flights, transfers and insurance as well. If so I could be booking it myself !
Thanks for all your comments - I am off out now. Cheers guys !
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brian
brian
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Sounds like Bansko, the Andorra of the future might have been nearer the mark ?
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bansko,
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Charlatanefc - Nice comment - I have never been so I cannot say thing
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And well out of it you are my son, it ain't known as Val Despair for nowt
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like Val d'Isere 
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rob@rar, so do I!
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FAQ
