Boots, The Good, The Bad and ... Lockwoods!

A snowHead

Thought you would all appreciate an interesting tale of painful boots and excellent customer service. It's a bit lengthy, but bear with me!

Back Autumn 2005 I got back into skiing after about a 15 years since I went with school. I acquired a pair of unused boots from a friend which were more comfortable than hire boots. His shoe size was the same as mine, so I naively thought they would be fine!! (Read on before commenting!)

Throughout Autumn and Winter 2005 I used these boots and realised although they were very uncomfortable that Im sure it would be sorted with better socks, losing weight, getting better insoles etc. At this point I was dry slope skiing for between 4 and 8 hours a week on average.

In March 2006 I went to Courchevel and throughout the holidays, the boots were really painful. At one point I went to a local ski-sports shop and consulted with the British guy who ran the store. He spent quite some time with me and explained that the boots were not fitting me properly and to try some of his hire stock for a day. These hire boots were much nicer and less painful.

During the holiday I was sorely tempted to get some properly fitted boots, but realised that it would be better to get them when back in the UK in case I needed any tweaking of the boots.

Upon return to the UK I hunted around for reports of reputable bootfitters in the UK. I didn't fancy going to one of the big name stores (Snow and Rock, Ellis Brigham etc) but felt I would get better service at an independant dealers. I'd heard reports of service varying at the bigger names, plus also being pushed onto certain named boots.

I couldn't find any stores local to me that had received good recommendations. However I saw excellent recommendations for Lockwoods in Leamington Spa. So I made an appointment to visit for a full boot fitting, and made the hour and a half trip over there with a couple of friends.

During the boot fitting I explained my level of skiing, what problems I was having with my boots and that I wanted comfort from my boots. The bootfitter spent a great deal of time measuring my feet, noting all the measurements, fitting me for Conform'able footbeds (which I had heard were great for ensuring comfort and control). He then selected a pair of boots which were appropriate for my needs and asked me to try them on. They felt much better than my current pair of boots and I purchased them. The bootfitter also highlighted that should I have any problems to return and get the boots tweaked. Additionally he recommended that if I still experienced great pain in my feet to get some custom orthotics produced, and suggested a place in Birmingham where I could get this done.

Now the boots have been much more comfortable than anything else I have worn, but I was still having soreness, numbness and pain in my boots. I realised that I needed to let them wear in and took my time with different socks, trying different insoles too to suss out what the problem was.

Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago, I went skiing to the Snowdome in Tamworth and was still having boot problems. A friend had just bought a new pair of boots which were 1.5 mondo sizes smaller than mine. His feet are the same size as mine and he suggested that I tried his boots on the slope for a few hours. These boots were absolute bliss, no problems at all. So rather confused how a pair of boots which were 1.5 mondo sizes smaller were more comfortable, I popped into Ellis Brigham in the snowdome. The girl in there measured my feet and confirmed that my boots were actually too big for my requirements and causing huge problems for me.

Now understanding what my problem was, I contacted Lockwoods and explained that I was still having problems with my boots and that I had worked out what the problem was. I realise that I should have gone back sooner to mention the problem, but only being able to go over at the weekends I hadnt had a chance to.

This weekend I popped over to Lockwoods and met with Andy who originally fitted my boots. He confirmed that my boots were too big. (We could not remember whether I had requested a larger boot when fitting originally or if I had been issued boots too big, but this is a moot point). Once again Andy spent a great deal of time measuring my feet, trying me with a different sized boots, which felt amazing. As the boots were originally fitted by Lockwoods and due to the circumstances surrounding the original boot sizing, Andy informed me that Lockwoods would be prepared to do a complete swap of my original boots for the correct sized ones. I was amazed, this is brilliant customer service. Not only had they spent so much time assessing my problem with my boots, but they had also refitted my new boots and also refitted my Conform'ables to the new boots too.

I am yet to try the new boots, but as they are essentially the same boot as my friends but with a different name on them, then I am convinced that they will be blissfully comfortable even during the wear-in period.

I would like to offer my upmost thanks to Andy Parish at Lockwoods and the rest of the guys there for such great service, even when the shop is heaving with people.

Moral of this story:
1) Do not get boots which have not been properly fitted, even if they seem better than rental boots.
2) Custom insoles are great when properly fitted too, although they are only relevant to approx 5% of the population so be careful of pressure sales - not pointing fingers.
3) Take your time to visit a good boot fitter which is also nearby (so that you can go for "tweaking").
4) Excellent Customer Service is alive and well in this country after all.

So everyone going to Lockwoods next week, be assured that you will get brilliant service from the team there.

Thanks Jarv

NB: I'm not pointing the finger of blame with regards to the original mis-fitting of boot sizes. Secondly I don't think it is standard practice to change boots, but was the solution to my specific problem!

FAO CEM, thanks for our recent chat regarding my boot "comfort" problem, but I am hoping that I have resolved my issue now !

Lastly; I would like to pass on my great thanks to the boot fitting team at Ellis Brigham who spent so much of their time with me on a late Sunday prior to closing diagnosing my comfort problem without me purchasing anything. They understood that I purchased the boots from elsewhere but were keen to understand where the problem was, and also suggested I went back to Lockwoods to allow them to resolve the issue. I applaud this level of service, where they could quite easily have said "Boots dont fit, let us sell you some new ones!".

A snowHead

Jarvski, sounds like good service all round!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Yup, just thought it worth highlighting the good service and the benefits of a good boot fitting.

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Jarvski, Excellent story, thanks for sharing Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Jarvski, I'm glad everything worked out for you but it's still scary that you were mis-sized by that much in the first place Shocked

. Yes Lockwoods did the right thing in changing the boots but they didn't really have any choice after getting it that wrong in the first place.

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Jarvski, when you say

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Its like this, Some of us Pronate, some of us Supernate, but not all of us!

There has been a spate of larger chain stores selling conform'ables to just about everybody and also recommending the wrong boots, i.e. a narrow boot for a c- or d fitting person, such as Atomic's, whicha re more like a B fitting

This way the alter, stretch, form etc.... at extra cost!

Just saying dont always beleive the hype I guess, especially with modern formable liners

A

After all it is free

Jarvski, that is nothing less than the service they have always offered,

spyderjon, you know, they employ human beings...some European directive means that machines are not allowed to fit ski boots...we ALL have off days now and again.

cathy, adam_button, footbeds will benefit the vast majority, over 80% of the population pronate excessively, only 5% supinate excessively, so the 15% that is left will not benefit functionally but will definitely find they will offer more comfort than not having them.
Without pronation & supination you would not be able to walk the way you do. it is the excessive amounts we have to control.

A badly made footbed however is as bad or worse than a proper one who ever you are!

Formable liners do not form a shape under the foot [with very few exceptions, notably thermo flex and similar ]

adam_button Atomic make several different lasts in their range, Race Tech is a narrow fitting, M-Tech is a medium fit C width and B tech is hi volume and with a 104mm last one of the wider boots on the market.... not that i am condoning purchasing boots in a chain store but please know your products before making sweeping statements about a brand [ i have nothing to do with Atomic BTW]
Little Angel

Jarvski, it almost sounds like you blame Andy for your original ill fitting boots. Did he try them on for you? Shocked

Boot fitters can't do everything in the boot fitting process, measuring your feet and shell checks are pretty much the limit. The rest comes down to you.

So the first moral of your story should be:

1. When buying boots make sure you know how they should feel when you've got them on. Otherwise you could feel a bit silly by buying boots 1.5cm too big for you.

As a small lesson for everyone, even the worlds best boot fitters can't fit a boot with no input from the person wearing the boots. TALK to your boot fitter. If you don't know how it should feel, ask. And if the boot is comfortable as soon as you put it on, it's too big.

Good luck in your new boots Jarvski.

adam_button, did you learn all of your information from your mate at "dynie" who told you ALL about the Pivot Jibs? Laughing

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I can't believe I'm typing this, but for years I thought my feet were size 11, when they are actually size 9, and after a bootfitter measured me for a 9 I convinced him to sell my a larger pair!

I'm now older and wiser and have boots that fit, tweaked by CEM Wink

My missus is down at Lockwoods tomorrow, hopefully she will have a better time with boots after a torrid few years!

Cheers,

Greg

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

I've gone down a whole size in my workboots over the last few years. Not sure if my feet are changing or if I've just been buying too big a size in the past.

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Bit of a tale Jarvski!

Aye, you are scripting your own lines Parlor - I wouldn't say it sounds like Jarvski is blaming Andy - if anything, the opposite - Jarv had the grace to offer his utmost thanks to Andy et al for professionally sorting out any problems.

Hence, I don't think too many folks, Andy @ Lockwoods included, would agree with your ensuing wee rant Parls me chap NehNeh

I thought Profeet's bootfitters had a whole array of gadgetry at their disposal to assist with "everything" in the bootfitting process. And I've heard on various snowy vines around here that Lockwoods have a skilful team, some commentators saying that their skills are compensation for the added input of Profeet's gadgets, at no extra cost even. I'm sure Andy bootfitter would have engaged Jarv in the fitting process, think we'd give him benefit of doubt there Laughing

and he just made a boo boo over the mondo size, that one simple (?) measurement -"pretty much the limit" of a bootfitter's job?!?

Okay, it sounds like an accident of Adam's, but as CEM honestly and wisely mentioned, we're all only human, we all have off days and we all have slip-ups in our doings from time to time. By the sounds of it, all that can be done here is profuse apology and a switch of boots, and maybe a few free pairs of socks for the time/driving expense wink

CEM says:
"cathy, adam_button, footbeds will benefit the vast majority, over 80% of the population pronate excessively, only 5% supinate excessively, so the 15% that is left will not benefit functionally but will definitely find they will offer more comfort than not having them.
Without pronation & supination you would not be able to walk the way you do. it is the excessive amounts we have to control."

I'm wondering, do Lockwoods not assess whether you sup/pronate and thus need "custom" footbeds, or just to inform their selection of "off-the-shelf" footbeds to maximise functionality and comfort? I would have thought it better that a professional ascertains such types of information rather than trusting the inexperienced judgements of novices (describing myself). This point relates to the compression rates of various linings etc I'd have thought. I've read posts by CEM iterating the importance of many many aspects of bootfitting/boot components and adjustments that can be made. It's all a little technical to me in truth - but I can see that there's a lot that can be learnt, if for instance I were to visit Lockwoods or CEM by the sounds of things, so to me Parlor's comments also sound dismissive of bootfitters skills and their capacities. Embarassed

As far as I perceive, there's a virtual science behind running trainers, and ski boots seem even more technical to me, with much greater physical forces involved.

Party on Garth.

You know it makes sense.

So how should a ski boot feel when you try it on in the shop?

My first pair of boots were also too big,I basically tried on a few pairs of boots and went for the comfy ones.

Now I try virtually every pair of boots around my size. If the sales assistant hoovers I get rid of them unless they know a lot about boots and I make it clear it could take some time as I have "difficult" feet. Taking the liner out and doing a quick shell size check helps - (foot in boot without liner, with toes just touching the front of the shell try to get 1 to 2 fingers behind the heel). The local sports chain gets enough of my business in other areas, they also fitted a pair of boots incorectly and sold me the boots that were too big so I have no quarms in trying on their boots but then going to a proper boot fitter with a shortlist.

I'm generaly looking for a boot that is a tight snug fit, that doesn't press at any one particular point but has uniform pressure all over the foot. The best way I can explain the fit is it should fit (with liner) like a glove that is a little tight but you know will give a bit later. I shift my foot about in the boot without the liner to see how much space there is because once that liner packs out a bit the boot will feel a whole lot different. The space around the foot to the shell should be as uniform as possible. (e.g. Too narrow a boot and I'm almost touching the sides, too wide a boot and there's a massive space either side of my foot).

Any comments on the above / or any boot selection tips?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

White Gold, I've spent several years boot fitting so I've been in the driving seat a few times and know exactly what it's like. Scripting my own lines? If you've read it like that then I'm sorry, I just toned down my attempt at a blatant accusation of Jarvski involvement in the "miss-selling" incident.

My grandfather was a carpenter, his life long mantra was measure twice, cut once. An expression I'm sure we've all heard before. So maybe Andy did slip a little, perhaps he didn't. Did he measure the feet weighted and unweighted, did he measure both of them?

Mondo equates to centimetres, most boots come in "half" sizes although they share the same shell. I'd be interested if Jarvski actually came down two shell sizes (ie 28-26.5) or one shell size (ie 28.5 - 27).

Sorry, I was about to explain initial point of boot fitting but I don't have time.

If my first post wasn't clear:

Jarvski, I appreciate your last post, yup it wasn't all Andy's fault. Sack up and take some responsibility. You tried the boots on and you bought them, they're too big. Thanks god for decent customer service.

A snowHead

As a point to the previous post, Lockwoods don't do tests for Pronation or Supernation, its just done by eye.

The only place i have ever had a pressure test for pronation was a sports shop in Nottingham called Sweatshop where their NewBalance team had all sorts of gizmos for checking it, even video'd the way i ran!

This was done as part of a special day we had at work for the Experian Nottingham half marathon. Interestingly out of all the people (50+) only 2 needed a support trainer for pronation - go figure.

A

A snowHead

adam_button, just a minor point, but "supernation" has nothing to do with feet. Try "supination". Wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Those that have nothing better to do than correct my spelling should find a better way of entertaining themselves

A

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Dude ... that is spelt "MEOW" !!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

shouldn't it be "Those who have nothing better ...."

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

[quote="parlor"][

[b]Jarvski, I appreciate your last post, yup it wasn't all Andy's fault. Sack up and take some responsibility. You tried the boots on and you bought them, they're too big. Thanks god for decent customer service.[/b]

I think your missing the point slightly - I am an expert in computers, thats what I do, if someone who isn't comes to me its my job to advise them the correct set up of servers etc... for the job they want to do, I DONT EXPECT THEM TO HAVE A PREFERENCE OR KNOW ANYTHING.

Same with boot fitting - I was with jarvski the day he went into Lockwoods the first time and also this time, at no time did he say Yep, they're fine, they'll do.

What he actually said was - I want the most comfortable, properly fitting boots. Now that is the job of the boot fitter NOT Jarvski or me, were not experts in this field, they are!

The Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods says:

Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

The boots could never be described as fit for purpose and I would go further to say that they were , by their fit inherently faulty so Lockwoods only did what is required of them by law and this applies to all goods up to and including 6 yrs, so credit to them for that.

A

LOL. I like being able to spell well though, not that you were talking to me Adam. Bravo the Fox Very Happy

Sorry Parls, certainly no bootfitter here, perhaps being one shell size out with measuring is not so much of an accident and more an industry hazard facing all parties?

Do the Lockwoods team have good eyes and assessment abilities? I'm not sure if my right leg has been shortened a few mms from fracturing my posterior illiac crest, or how this may have affected anything ski-boot related. I know my rear right pelvis stings like mad when I ski hard and jump off a few wee cliffs, but I just can't help myself Embarassed

I just hope Lockwoods will also be able to give me advice on whether I need to see someone in CEM's line of work or otherwise Confused

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Oh parlor, ... the boots which I got were mondo 28. I left everything in the hands of the bootfitter, as I am not one, and do not pretend to be one. They recommended 28, so I said how they felt when they were on and was told that was correct.

Edit: Eeeek, start to reply ... join a conference call, finish reply and there are heaps of other messages before the one I'm trying to reply to!

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adam_button, you need to understand that running and skiing are two different sports , the motions that the foot goes through are completley different, how out of 50 people that were assessed only two needed support baffles me, i can offer you a data base of over 70 clients of mine since the summer, i sell a mild support shoe and an orthotic over 80% of the time....different companies also offer different names for shoe styles that basics are cushion, stability and motion control, the alternative could be a structured cushion... this is a term given to a support shoe by people who are scared to use the word pronation.

fancy machines tell you very little, one of my mentors and a close friend who is a DPM [american podiatrist] said [when i asked him about getting a pressure plate] if you can justify it in terms of it telling you something useful to pass on to your clients then get one....needless to say neither him nor i have a pressure plate. they may give you a nice pretty picture on a screen, but you have to know what to do with the information, there is no substitute for experience [i have over 18 years of this] and training [ spent several £1000 on this]

tests for excessive pronation are really simple, you can tell by looking at the foot to ankle relationship, all the machine does is put this on a computer screen.

i hope this offers a little insight into pronation of the foot and why machines to test it are not required.

please ask youself what training the guys form New Balance have had, i know we have to educate the reps from the companies i deal with on a regular basis...they are shoew salesmen not pedorthists , podiatrists or biomechanists Little Angel

[EDIT] the shoe salesmen do this for a living sell shoes, many running shops have jumped on the band wagon, and got a tredmill, what makes me laugh is watching 3 members of staff gathered round the back of it nodding or shaking heads as some poor sole runs barefoot.....when you train your eyes to do something, they function at approx 7-8 frames per second...a video camera operates at 50 [25 horizontal 25 vertical] now i know what i would trust.

the running shops offer this in many cases free, but they then sell you a shoe and thats it, much of my business comes from people who have been to the specialist running shop, then picked up an injury due to the wrong levl of support in the shoe [either too little or too much]

I charge for my service, but it is what i do all day, i don't sell shorts and tee shirts, we do a few shoes lots of orthotics and footwear fitting / analysis, every client who comes for running analysis leaves with some knowledge about their gait, a 10 page report with a biomechanical profile, shoe recomendation and a workout program to deal with the weaknesses or tight mucsle areas that are affecting their running

Adam_Button, thanks for your input. I have an LLB, a law degree, for whatever good that ever did me Wink

The boots are fit for purpose, you can still ski in them. If you want to be technical about what law may apply here, he was possibly "miss sold" the boots which were still "fit for sale" and "fit for purpose". If this isn't clear enough, spend some more time on Google.

One last point for you Adam:

Take the footbed out of pair of ski boots off the shelf and inspect the quality of footbed, at best you'll get a little fellow with some arch support made of rubber, at worst (and the majority) you get a flat piece of card board. If you want to ski on it, help yourself. There are some good alternatives to having a 'custom' footbed made, you could get Superfeet, or any of the other good after market products. The existing foot bed is rubbish. Loads of people ski on them fine. If you care about your knees, hips, spine and feet making sure you have a good footbed in any footwear is pretty important. Which is why so many companies, Profeet and your Sweatshop to name a few, can make good money out of making sure you get footwear that fits correctly.

Jarvski, I'm delighted that you got your boots sorted. The question was not what size did you get but how many sizes did you move? You say 28.0. So did you move from a 29.5 to 28.0 or 28.0 to 26.5? I don't really care, don't answer. Well done. Lesson learnt. Hope the new boots serve you well.

Lockwoods are an A1 supplier, they performed very well regardless of the details.

White Gold, do you do anything to keep your pelvis stabilised when you ski? If I'm telling you something you already know please ignore me. Do you keep your core activated when you ski? Having a strong core will help keep you in the correct position and will help prevent you collapsing in the hip area. Do you have tight hamstrings? Your hamstrings will be pulling your pelvis down and out of balance with your sacrum. If your hamstrings are tight you could help your pelvis by some light but very regular stretching...

You know it makes sense.

parlor,

Your points about the pelvis are interesting, given me food for thought..cheers

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hi parlor,

Thanks for your comments. After fracturing that bone (skiing) Sad

I got myself an Alpinestar back protector, which has a 6inch elasticated waist of sorts - it fits on your back like a rucksack does, with elasticated shoulder straps. When all pulled up tight it offers me a fair level of support I find, and of course keeps me from smacking the posterior crest again when I wipe out. I guess this is the kind of stabalisation that you mean?

You`re telling me things I don`t really know actually - accident happened in Canada in Jan 2001, and when I came back to England in Nov I went to see my local GP, explained what had happened and that I get pain in that area pretty much constantly. Doc referred me for a hospital X-Ray, which to get an appt for of course took months. Then after the x-ray review, I was referred for a course of physio. Had some big sucking device stuck on my back once a week for about 6 weeks, and taught 2 or 3 basic stretching exercises.

I don`t know what keeping your core activated when skiing means exactly? If having tight hamstrings means that you can`t touch your toes with ease, then they`re tight.

You sound like you have particular knowledge of the pelvis, handy, thank you Little Angel

- would you recommend I go back to my doctor and see if further investigations can be made through NHS channels, or would seeing a "pedorthist, podiatrist or biomechanist" be a better choice?

Cheers

A snowHead

Jarvski, just like to pass on my praise for EB at the Snowdome in Tamworth and their general level of service. They really have been good over the years. They were happy to set up a pair of skis I didn't buy off them last season (because they didn't stock that size), with no quibbles. When buying a new pair of boots in August this year, they were extremely helpful and didn't try and sell me the most expensive ones, even 'though they could have easily done it because they were a prettier colour Blush

No problems with initial fitting and they are very willing to tweak the boots after they've moulded them for me, although they did such a good job to start with it hasn't proved necessary. They also confirmed my previous boots were too large, which explained the amount of movement and inability to get them really comfortable.

Glad somebody else experienced this good service.

A snowHead

White Gold,

It sounds like you have been left to your own devices somewhat with your injury. I might be wrong there, tho'
As good as some of the people maybe, I think the basic NHS ideal is to get the patient up and about and on their feet. They might have
more pressing priorities than to get someone back skiing. I would have thought that a specialist could put you in touch with a
sports physio who could devise a set of exercises that are specific to the injury. When I eventually found someone I trusted ...and that wasn't easy...they said I had to start at square one and relearn the muscle movement and this was a lot of effort. But thats ok because now you are on the right track and will have to do these exercises yourself.

Basically, you have to use the NHS for the Scans and X-rays but once you have a specialists view he should be able to put you onto someone who can help out the next stage. If he can't, he doesn't sound much of a specialist. And yes, this does rather mean going private for the aftercare. I've not found this degree of expertise available on the NHS for whatever reason.

Core stabilty to me means that the lower abs and stomach muscles can stabilise the pelvis..of just basically keep it in place. Its all a series of muscular straps and webbing right the way through the skeleton but someone with a better medical way will define it better. But one things for sure, you'll have to work on it

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hey JT, thanks for your comments bud.

Yes, I was very much left to my own devices with this injury. I was still quite young when the injury was looked into by the NHS folk - back in late 2001 I'd have been 23 and I think the attitude was basically 'ahhh you're young, you can still walk, we'll see you in about 30 years (when the NHS isn't here any more)'. However, over the past 5 years, more and more my body has started to show its age (in this damaged area) - though my friends say the same thing about their bodies and various aches and pains (I wonder if their definitions of pain are the same as mine) - nonetheless, I'm still rather disappointed at this human tendency, what's this growing old lark all about hey!? Evil or Very Mad

I suspect that I could benefit from some specialist help and advice, but in truth can't really afford any outlay in this area at the moment (had to spend the cash on a 10day ski holiday this winter, and I need new boots too). wink

I know that the expense of professional medical advice and such things as physio can quickly run into the hundreds if not thousands of pounds, which at the moment is just prohibitive. Sad

In preparation for our January ski trip, I'm doing a range of exercises to try to strengthen my core muscle sets, such as sits-ups/pull-ups, running, squatting - all pretty basic stuff, but things I can do at home. But I don't know if these are the right things to be doing, perhaps even some are negative for my specific issues. Certainly 6/7/8 hours of hard skiing exercise isn't the best thing for me because this makes my posterior right pelvis area sting with screaming ferocity. However, by next morning I can move again, dress myself, and get those skis fixed on Blush

I just wouldn't mind, if possible, being able to minimise this inevitable pain - when I stay in my back-protector brace post-skiing, all evening, just for a little extra support and relief (from what I define as agony), I think things are maybe going a bit far. When on skis the adrenaline and thrill make the pain largely disappear, which although nice is probably a bad thing.

Cheers me snowies snowHead

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White Gold,

That doesn't sound good...by any stretch... I would go back to your GP and start the ball rolling again. I think there is a world of difference between a few aches and pains and what you are describing. And it is not also likely to get better with time as it sounds like it has been 5 years since...!!

And you are right, some exercises might be hindering rather than helping... Physio and direction is available on the NHS now and IME isn't so woefully inadequate as it used to be... I still think you would be best served to find an expert-expert but in the meantime you should get back to the GP and get a course of action and advice. I wouldn't be fobbed off but I wouldn't be talking about the skiing side of it too loudly either. I presume this affects you in other areas of your life as well.... I'd focus on that as far as the Dr is concerned

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Hmm, probably wise words JT - for instance I am laying a brick path at the moment and (when it isn't raining) spend several hours shovelling sand/cement, bending here and there laying bricks etc. At the end of the day my rear pelvic area really throbs (not half as bad as it was when I last went skiing in 2004 though) - it can be very painful, but rarely to the skiing-generated agony level. Just tonight actually, I was speaking to a doctor friend of mine about all this (he's a dentist/max-fax surgeon - head doctor - not in a shrink sense, just all injury above neck, excluding specialist organs, so he has no specialist knowledge of the pelvic region). Anyhow, he was saying how he fitted a new flooring one time and after several hours on the job his back was in agony - he'd injured his sciatica. He seemed to think that these persistent, uncomfortable (and arguably unusual) forms of exercise (like brick-path-laying too) are bound to cause lots of pain - 'we're not 21 anymore' was a comment he made. Personally, I think that as a 28 year old chap I should be able to do 8 hours' hard 'physical' work and not suffer in such a way for it.

I'm probably a little late to prepare for the Jan ski trip - one of the probs with how long it takes to get things done NHS route. I've been pondering whether to go and see a GP again and your advice makes me think I should do this - I'm still not optimistic about the assistance I'll receive, but I guess it can't hurt to try.

Cheers.

Help!!

Boots, The Good, The Bad and ... Lockwoods!

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