 Poster: A snowHead
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I am looking ot visit one or the other of these two in early March. Just wondering what the general perception of the two would be as I have never tried the Grand Massif before but would really like to see if it lives up to my expectations. (Which are high as always!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm sure that someone who knows the area better than I will be along in a minute, but for the moment:
Flaine is in the 'heart of the GM; LC is on the edge, although the connection is fine.
Flaine is a purpose built resort and not to everyone's taste. I imagine (I've never sayed there) that there is plenty of ski in, ski out accomodation. LC is a rather spread out, quiet village with very little ski in, ski out accomodation. It has a few restaurants and bars and one night club, IIRC. It's lower than Flaine. It's a perfectly pleasant spot if you want a quiet life. There are a few other outlying villages - Samoens and and Morillon are well linked in, Sixt/Fer a Cheval isn't.
I liked the GM area, although I've only skied there for a long w/e; the OL has skied there several times, and likes it. I'd say that it's a pretty good cruising area (on the slopes rather than in the bars) with a few blacks thrown in. The off piste is supposed to be pretty good (I have no experience), but apparently a guide is a must as the rock is fissured like nobody's business (it certainly looks that way from the lifts). The lift system seems pretty good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Pretty much dittorichmond, depends what you are after in terms of accommodation, nightlife and convenience. My personal favourite is Morillon 1100 for easy access and good self catering ( with a half way decent supermarket) but then I ski with an 8 year old in tow so apres ski is pretty much off the radar.
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Thanks chaps. Due to quite a light load on the work front recently I have done a fair amount of research into the logistical side of things and I am really most interested in peoples experiences in both.
Chances are I will be with a mixed group of fairly experienced chaps and chapesses who will be going on the cheap. Self catering therefore - is there a Red Cross parcel service like in Tignes? That saves me loads usually.
Also, I would be interested to learn about the snow coverage lower down in Carroz as the snow reports on Ski Club website suggest a paucity of the white stuff.
Nightlife wise, it would be nice to have somewhere the group can go and swap stories/partners with for the next days skiing, otherwise clubs not really required.
Keep it coming - great info, thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kaiser, I've only been to LC in Jan, and cover was fine. There are lots of cannons. You'll probably find that you'll usually only ski in LC on the way home; the greater part of the skiing is in the bowl above Flaine. I'd say that the skiing immediately above samoens and Morillon is better than that immediately abve LC.
LC has bars and restaurants, so the exchange of tall tales and taller women should be straightforward enough.
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Kaiser,
Before you read this, please note that I am a chalet owner in Les Carroz - I'll try not to be biased but obviously I much prefered LC to Flaine or I wouldn't have bought a chalet there!
Grand Massif skiing
Mainly blue/red, with some black and some great off-piste if you know where to look (contact me just before you go). The area above the villages of Les Carroz, Samoens and Morrillon is called Le Massif - this has approx 145km although some of this (I'd guess at 25-35km) is low. Flaine is a large bowl with approx 120km of skiing - adding this into Le Massif area and you get Le Grand Massif. The links between the Flaine area and Le Massif area are very simple - perhaps 30/45 mins for a competent skier - the link is via a choice of blue - you shouldn't really think of Le Grand Massif area as Le Massif or Flaine (as you may need to plan trips in say PdS or Tignes/Val) as it is all pretty easily connected. Personally, my fav skiing is above Morrillon/Les Carroz and the off piste off the back of Flaine (the Gers bowl)
Villages
Flaine is ugly but is functional, snow-sure and ski in/ski out. Apartments are not the best quality but can be pretty cheap. A selection of standard restaurants, a few bars, club (and bowling alley)
Les Carroz is a traditional French village - at 1200m is still pretty snow sure (skiable back to village Dec-Apr) - numerous restaurants (from cheap pizza to expensive), three decent bars on the main square (plus others in hotels).
Red Cross Parcel Service - not sure what this is... Both villages are set up for self catering so have supermarkets etc. There is also a company called www.inresortservices.com who service self caterers - either by coming to your chalet to cook or by pre-purchasing shopping etc.
If I can help in any way just let me know - www.flameski.com or csimmons@flameski.com
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simo1234, thanks for the in depth info, I did like the sound of Les Carroz, although I have almost always opted for the highest resort on the mountain before now, so Flaine not entirely ruled out yet.
I saw inresort thingy advertised and may well do that, although it is significantly more expensive than the scheme net4ski.com use which I used last year and worked out £42/person for all meals during the week and we still couldn't eat all of it!
If we do head up there, I may well have some further questions for you, thanks for the offer.
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Kaiser, We've skied the Grand Massif area via both....Les Carroz is by far the nicer village.
The main part of Flaine is basically converted NCP car parks!! It is ugly and depressing with little to recommend it in terms of night life BUT it is the most convenient place for skiing that we've ever stayed. Virtually every accommodation is ski-in or ski-out or both and the lift network out of the main town is excellent. We've considered going back but there are now no independent hotels in town....they've all been taken over by TO's which is a shame.
We've never stayed in LC but have used it as an access point into the GM, the main lift is well out of town and the buses were a bit of a nightmare the week we were using them...it was Xmas and the town was full so everything was a bit stretched. The main town is very much more attractive than Flaine and has a nice range of restaurants and shops (based on a summer visit!)
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homphomp, I have heard tell that the apartment I am looking at in Les Carroz is Ski in/out from it's balcony, and also that there is a new gonadary-type thing that goes up to flaine in 8 mins - could this be bovine effluent?
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Kaiser, Any apartment in Les Carroz that is ski in/out will be a bit of a trek out of town, don't know if the buses run at night so you might end up a bit out on a limb? No gonadary type link from LC to Flaine that I'm aware of....unless they've built one since last Xmas...always possible I suppose?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Kaiser wrote: |
| homphomp, I have heard tell that the apartment I am looking at in Les Carroz is Ski in/out from it's balcony, and also that there is a new gonadary-type thing that goes up to flaine in 8 mins - could this be bovine effluent? |
This might be like the gondola up from Samoens that takes you "up to Flaine" in 8 minutes. What they don't mention is the 3 chair lifts you'll then need to take!!!
I've got pretty limited experience of the area, but what little I've had would have me pitching up in Morillon; Les Carroz; Samoens and then Flaine in that order.
Morillon and Les Carroz are both nice because they have some lovely tree-lined skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Kaiser,
A few things to correcxt people's assumptions. Firstly, there is a new gondola - opened about 2 seasons ago. This takes you up to the heart of Le Massif area in 6 minutes (I think). The gondola is located about 5 mins uphill walk from the centre of town, although there are regular buses.
The ski in/ski out appartment that you mention will either be above the gondola (so a slightly longer walk), or more likely, on the nursery slopes that cut through the centre of the village. There are nursery drag lifts on these slopes that you can use to take you up to the gondola rather than walking/taking the bus.
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You know it makes sense.
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Kaiser,
As a family we have stayed at both Flaine & Les Carroz, last time was this February at MGM apartments in Carroz.
Yes Flaine is not pretty, however we found it to be better than expected & enjoyed our stay there although the apartments
were typical basic French!
Did Flaine at New year & the run back down to the resort was getting a bit cut up & green in places.
The Ski areas are both much the same really, although we did enjoy the tree lined slopes around Carroz & Morillion better.
Carroz has a really nice village feel & we would definately go back again, the MGM apartments were very good & for once the village lift bus service was great. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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simo1234, I suspect you may be right there, I do remember something about nursery slopes.
Does anyone have an opinion on how the skiing differs or is similar to 3 Vallees or Tignes/Val?? That is where I have predominantly gone due to cost/snow issues - ie I am a bit tight and like some decent coverage to be certain.
The Apartment I am looking at in Carroz is £550 for the week and sleeps six - looks pretty nice too, good deal?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Kaiser, although I have only been to Les Carroz in January, friends of mine go early in March every year and have never had any complaints about the snow coverage. It's always a bit surprising to me to find how good the snow can be in the Grand Massif but I'm told that this has something to do with the area being between Lake Geneva and Mont Blanc.
As for ski-in, ski-out, would be interesting to find out where the apartment is. I would guess that this is in the Servages area (see the map here: http://sdp.skiinfo.com/images/dppic/f244491.jpg?c=42). That is right at the bottom of the Timalets red run which is served by snow cannons and is a great last run for the day!
And that deal on the apartment does look good, I wouldn't bother with Flaine if you can get that good a deal. Flaine has great skiing but easy enough to ski over from Les Carroz to Flaine.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sleeps six probably means two bedroom and the sofa but at £550 for the week (£90 per head) sounds like a bargain.
If the appartment is in Les Servages then it is next to one of the best restaurants I know (certainly the best in Les Carroz). This would be a short ski (30 secs) down to the gondola, but prhaps 10-15 mins walk up from the village centre.
If it on the nursery slope then it is only a couple of minutes to the village and as I said earlier, the main gondola can be accessed using the nursery drag lifts.
Snow in March shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. Firstly, the area always gets loads of snow (between Lake Geneva and Mont Blanc) and also the mountain base is predominantly grass not rock so doesn''t need a deep covering to be skiable.
Enjoy it!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds like a deal then - now just need to get some folks to agree to coming!!
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just to add a different point of view - I have only done day trips to the GM but the first time, having parked at Les Carroz and skied over the the Flaine Bowl, I found it a rather tedious link over, and next time drove a bit further to a car park nearer to Flaine, which was easier. Snow in Les Carroz sometimes rather thin on the ground, but Flaine snow is as good as anywhere around and almost certainly considerably better than Meribel in similar conditions. I don't think 550 pounds for an apartment sleeping 6 (which would definitely include a sofa bed) is a particularly good deal out of high season. That many euros would be nearer the mark, if rented direct. You shpuld be able to find loads of apartments at good prices if you search the owner-rented sites, like homeholidays.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, I was attracted to the deal on account of the standard of furnishings and ski in and outability of the property, which for me is as much of a necessity as a dishwasher! Admittedly I am paying a lot less for similar in Tignes in Jan by going directly but that is using my usual channels of the resort website, interhome and net4ski - if you know of any others I am all ears!!
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Kaiser, I have been to Flaine three years running, every time has been in March so the snow has always been amazing and the weather sunny which has ment boarding in t-shirts a possibility. If you go on a package then it works out pretty cheap, yes the rooms are not the most impressive but it depends what you want out of your holiday. The skiing is amazing, loads of off piste and you don't need a guide for all of it. Have never stayed in LC but boarded there and it looks v nice. One bar that you might want to visit is the Flying Dutchman in Flaine, very mad but it's one of the better ones. All in all if you want a cheap holiday and good skiing then it's a good place, if you want log cabins, open fires, bars and shops, then not so good. Hope you have a great time where ever you go.
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| simo1234 wrote: |
Kaiser,
A few things to correcxt people's assumptions. Firstly, there is a new gondola - opened about 2 seasons ago. This takes you up to the heart of Le Massif area in 6 minutes (I think). The gondola is located about 5 mins uphill walk from the centre of town, although there are regular buses. |
True....but it doesn't take you to Flaine! There's still a lot of linking to do to get over to the Flaine side....well worth it though.
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[quote="homphomp"]
| simo1234 wrote: |
| There's still a lot of linking to do to get over to the Flaine side....well worth it though. |
2 runs, 2 chairs from the top of the LC gondola to get to directly above Flaine, IIRC.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Never stayed in Flaine but I have done LC and Samoens. richmond, is right about the links, they get a bit a bit congested at the weekends but get less busy during the week, also some are pretty long and flat- boarders beware.
We really enjoyed LC but its not a good late season destination due to its altitude. We skied the Faline bowl every day and most of that was off piste, really accessible and easy to navigate but watch out for the holes there are a lot of them!
Comparisons with 3V are a bit pointless, it doesn't compare well in any statistical sense but then who actually ever does the whole of the 3V? If you want to clock up huge mileages probably not the place to go , what it has got is lots of variety and then of course there's the off piste.
We didn't really explore LC itself too much, saving it for next time.
The ski bus service is good and frequent as long as you pick your stop, nearest is not always best especially at MGM apartments.
Ski in ski out is only really possible if your accomodation is a little way out of the town itself and probably a way uphill, I'd go for in town accomodation and use the bus.
The last runs back to LC is great if you miss the last official lift, they open up again for stragglers quite often (otherwise iits a bus back) and you get a completely empty run back, great for hooning about the slopes.
Probably going back to LC this year for at least a long weekend so it must be pretty good 
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rich, Love the "hooning" - I haven't hooned for far too long!
I confess though I am becoming concerned by the amount of people who are suggesting there may be some traipsing around to be done. I have no objection to exercixe on the mountain, but when it's time for the skis to come off I prefer to wait for the alcohol to take over and inspire me to be mobile again - otherwise I just fall flat on my face...
Basically I am hoping to investigate every nook and cranny and don't want to spend all my time on the lifts, not interested in buses, except maybe after sixt, and certainly don't want to travel far to the watering hole/supermarché.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Kaiser, I wouldn't worry. I hate poling/skating and I didn't have any probs going from LC to Flaine. The run down into Flaine (Van?) from the LC side is a bit busy and can be worn (I suspect skiers from the opther lower villages join in there), but it's not a major problem. There is a crucial chair on the way back to LC. If the run down into LC from the bottom of it is open, no problem. If it's shut you have to go up the lift or bus/taxi it. We missed the lift at least once, and as rich said, after waiting a few minutes to gather a crowd of latecomers, it was reopened for a nice quiet run home.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Have not skied the GM for many years - Les Carroz used to be a very popular day trip for us when we lived just outside Geneva. Certainly the shortest journey available to get ones skis wet apart from the Jura.
We tended to drive through Les Carroz and pick up the chair lift just a few minutes outside the town. You could park there and buy lift passes.
I always thought the skiing at Flaine was underrated, especially the Gers area ( when its open ) - views of Mt. Blanc were stunning from the top of the main stand up telecabine. And the top section of the black - diamante noire? - was always a challenge.
If, these days, I were to consider taking a holiday in the GM I would not drive all the way to Flaine, Les Carroz would fit the bill quite nicely.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kaiser wrote: |
| Basically I am hoping to investigate every nook and cranny and don't want to spend all my time on the lifts, not interested in buses, except maybe after sixt, and certainly don't want to travel far to the watering hole/supermarché. |
Ski in/out can mean more distance to travel to shops and entertainment, but obviously less time traipsing around the resort in ski boots to get to the skiing. Depends on what your priorities are I suppose; I like to click into my skis as soon as I step outside the door and I'm prepared to have to walk some distance to bars and shops if necessary.
Not stayed in Les Carroz but stayed in Flaine three times. Nowhere is very far from either skiing or shopping/apres if you are staying in the main part of the resort. Even when we were staying in places which technically did not offer ski in/out, it was never more than a short walk to get where you wanted to go.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I must say, perhaps not very pc but..... I detest places where the Gendarmes rugby tackle you for taking a short cut through the street to get back to the door of your apartment! Happened to me once in VT when I had new boots and couldn't walk and after a huge and traumatic drive all night. Suffice to say I was not especially pleased!
Is there anywhere reasonable to Apres in Les Carroz?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't comment on rugby tackling gendarmes in LC (I don't remember seeing any at all, but no doubt they pop out of the woodwork as soon as you set ski on road). The apres is pretty low key in LC from what I saw. There are a fair number of bars and restaurants around the square in the centre of the village, pretty much what you's expect in a small French ski resort village- just the job for a bunch of 40 somethings who want a couple of beers after skiing, a decent meal and maybe a couple more drinks afterwards before bandaging and bed by 11.30. There is a night club of some description, which looked dreary from the outside, but could have been really wild inside.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 26-10-06 11:09; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I confess I am not 40 something yet - more like a teenager trapped inside the somewhat bloated and decrepit body of a 30 something lager fiend. I don't need noise anymore, however fine beer and plenty of it is a beautiful thing!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kaiser, you may have to search a bit for fine beer (this is France) but there'll almost certainly be lots of it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kaiser, try p@v flaine foret, newly renovated self catering accom and tres, tres convenient 100 yds to the slopes and nightlife .
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hedley, p@v??
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Kaiser, Pierre et Vacances, I reckon, a French apartment chain sort of thing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Stayed in Les Carroz and Samoens. Les Carroz was preferable due to accomodation being nearer to the slopes. Indeed we stayed at Le Bois de la Char. This hotel is right on the slopes, in fact it is marked as a mountain restaurant on the piste map! Reasonable price, Food basic, but good, excellent bar.
Walk into town is 10 minutes, but if you can't manage that at night, youre skiings not going to be up to much.
Samoen is a lovely village with some very good restaurants, but a short bus ride to the Gondola is needed. If you do stay there, the Neige et Roc is an excellent hotel.
Flaine is convenient, but ugly, and isolated, and if like me you would never use a tour operator, now out of bounds as has been stated elsewhere.
Overall though great ski area and we have never been let down by snow
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Thanks fella, looks like Carroz then, and welcome to Snowheads!
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