 Poster: A snowHead
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What happened to the sport that was going to wipe out skiing?
Back in 1979 I imported the first 20 snowboards into Britain, after writing about 'Surfing on Snow' (the word snowboard hadn't been invented) for Ski Survey magazine and Design magazine. One inventor - Dimitrije Milovich - had produced a revolutionary deck for snow surfing in Salt Lake City (the Winterstick) and had a tiny factory making them. It was exciting going to Heathrow Airport to collect the airfreight parcel!
Where is snowboarding now? Still the essential sport for any snow fiend under 20 ... or facing mortal peril from a 4000-year-old thing called the ski?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Last season at Alpe D'Huez, boards were for bulldozing a deep channel, too narrow for skiers, down the fall line at the start of The Tunnel. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sounds scary!
The reason for this thread, apart from countering David Murdoch's complaint (!), is that snowboarding seems to have become a blunt edge.
The new Warren Miller movie strikingly demonstrates that anything you can do on a single board can't* be done better on a pair. Though admittedly Warren Miller was born from a skiing culture.
Snowboarding can't emulate surfing, because the sliding medium isn't fluid and rolling. Water skis are useless on a wave. But on snow a single deck simply isn't needed and doesn't obtain any physical advantage. That's not to say that a wild free upper body without poles isn't a very desirable freedom.
Looking at that film, I was struck by the brave new world of skiing - especially switch landings! I saw nothing notable from the boarders.
Who's ruling the terrain parks?
[* Correction: "can"] !
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 14-10-06 10:49; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
The new Warren Miller movie strikingly demonstrates that anything you can do on a single board can't be done better on a pair
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Typo?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Who's ruling the terrain parks? |
Who cares?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well you obviously don't
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[quote="Frosty the Snowman"]
Yes! [he tip-toes back to correct it]
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OK I'll take the bait.
I hardly think snowboarding is dying. There is a whole generation of wintersports enthusiasts in their 20s & 30s who have never stood on skis & don't intend to. To some skiing remains the preserve of Daily Mail readers with a superiority complex and an ill-informed attitude.
To say snowboarding offers no performance advantages over skiing is somewhat simplistic. Arguably the purest form of carve is achieved on an alpine race board, a single line in the snow. Take 2 individuals with say 3 weeks on snow experience put then in 1 foot of powder and I would virtually guarantee the boarder would cope far better ( & not have to spend ages looking for a lost ski when they fell). A key reason skiing has resurged is due to cross pollination of ideas from snowboarding like big sidecut, width, twin tips & snow parks. Look at some of the new breed of niche ski companies - Zag, Prior, Lib Tech (quiksilver) - snowboard heritage? Even Salomon's blue noodle which probably was the first mass market breakthrough for a fat ski seems to me to be heavily based on snowboard construction. Although skis have obvious superiority for touring, people routinely access backcountry on split boards.
While a real mountain athlete can achieve anything on skis I still fancy my chances of skiing/riding switch or tail slashing a windlip more on a board. I fancy holding an edge on boilerplate or making a long traverse more on skis.
I would not expect a Warren Miller movie to show me the cutting edge of either sport, if you've not seen it DG I suggest you get hold of 91 words for snow to see the true spectrum of snowboarding.
In terms of freestyle progression I suspect snowboard is on a plateau at the moment while the freestyle ski movement is pushing the boundaries but then to most of us who are not in the top 1% of the world's skiers or riders its more about the smile on your face than being better than someone else. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| ............Take 2 individuals with say 3 weeks on snow experience put then in 1 foot of powder and I would virtually guarantee the boarder would cope far better ( & not have to spend ages looking for a lost ski when they fell). |
Depends what you mean by better. To take my example of the Tunnel, too many boarders were not able to go down it properly. What they could do was face the fall line and bulldoze their way down - ruining the line for skiers in the process (and not helping good boarders, either). Of course there were boarders who were sheer poetry to watch as they carved their way down - but they were in a small minority.
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| A key reason skiing has resurged is due to cross pollination of ideas from snowboarding like big sidecut, width, twin tips & snow parks... |
Agreed. Ski design has taken an enormous leap thanks to boarding.
| Quote: |
| ........but then to most of us who are not in the top 1% of the world's skiers or riders its more about the smile on your face than being better than someone else. |
No argument there.
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fatbob, spot on! Skiing has been playing catch-up for the last decade and now both tools have equal respect from those that use them well and there are more people using both and letting the conditions determine the choice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| achilles wrote: |
Depends what you mean by better. To take my example of the Tunnel, too many boarders were not able to go down it properly. What they could do was face the fall line and bulldoze their way down - ruining the line for skiers in the process (and not helping good boarders, either). Of course there were boarders who were sheer poetry to watch as they carved their way down - but they were in a small minority.
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No argument here unfortunately for those wanting a bit of controversy A sideslip is a sideslip whoever is doing it and the snowboard "falling leaf" zig -zag is just the equivalent of the painful horizontal traverse & snowplough adopted by skier when they take on a slope too challenging for their abilities.
Interestingly for everyone who has a moan about snowboarders scraping all the snow off or sitting in the middle of the slope, there will be a snowboarder bitching about skiers making moguls with their little turns or standing around in great herds at the top of any steep pitch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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fatbob, good point about the moguls - hadn't thought of that. I wonder if that means there shouldn't b some sort of convention that separates the sides of a run that skiers and boarders take on a run to get round that.
| Quote: |
| ...or standing around in great herds at the top of any steep pitch |
Amen! Mind you, I remember a ski instructor at Les Deux Alpes getting a little niggled with me when I got a tad spooked on a steep narrow line
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fatbob, I cannot see any argument here, and if I were 10 years younger I would probably ride as well as ski. I suspect part of the issue here is that some of the people who would have been annoying incompetent skiers are now annoying incompetent boarders. I share your hate of people who stop on every single ridge, in the middle.
My unfavourite thing about boarders - that sound of the "tray of doom" as it slides sideways down a slope towards you because the rider is too busy sitting down to get his heel edge in, and is already landing on their butt.
My unfavourite thing about skiers - I think they tend to push in queues more (in Europe) - maybe because it is easier to maneouver skis in a queue, and beginners/intermediates take less predictable lines on pistes than boarders.
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You know it makes sense.
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stoatsbrother, Age has nowt to do with it, there are plenty of saggyscrote old farts on boards and many didn't start till they were in their 40+s and some can even carve t'boogers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Masque wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, Age has nowt to do with it, there are plenty of saggyscrote old farts on boards and many didn't start till they were in their 40+s and some can even carve t'boogers. |
That's me!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Masque wrote: |
| .......... and many didn't start till they were in their 40+s .......... |
Youngsters, then 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, I think you are right. tried boarding 10 yrs ago with hard boots on an icy day in tignes - hurt my knee and my butt like hell. I will give it a go again on a poor visibility day sometime... I like skiing with guys who board one day and ski the next. Trouble is a sad fat middle-aged git who can ski looks marginally less sad than a sad fat middle-aged ski who cannot board,
achilles, that emoticon look just like you,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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stoatsbrother, I'm older than achilles,  Soft boots, hero snow and a medium length board that's not too stiff and with some coaching you'll be linking turns by the end of the day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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See boredom....
Boarders..stop sieliping down the fallline and moving the snow down the hill so that it can melt
[ps I luv u
yes ive been drinkin
but then this thred is fishin so what.
ps. boarders stop scraping the snow tawards the bottom
easy pish tacke etc lal la la
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ssnowman wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Who's ruling the terrain parks? |
Who cares? |
Unfortunately the obsession with freestyle blinkers ordinary piste skiers from what is just another enjoyable way to get down the hill.
On the other hand maybe alpine is on the way back:
http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2513
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| achilles wrote: |
I've aged a hellava lot worse than you, then  |
I think there's only 3 or 4 months difference tween us but I've led a life of debauchery, booze and bathing thrice weekly in fresh virgin's sweat (which is getting extraordinarily hard to get hold of) . . . others find rubbing bacon grease into their various nooks and crannies just as efficacious . . . if a trifle too attractive to dogs, adventurous badgers and hungry bluetits.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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