 Poster: A snowHead
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So how do you actually learn (to ski)? Can you just watch what someone does and reproduce it? Do you try out a number of things and see what works? Or do you need to know the mechanics?
Personally I can see in my mind's eye what I should look like but I'm incapable of reproducing it unless I can describe the mechanics (which I then boil down to a mnemonic). I have to have an idea of the goal and purpose of what I'm trying to achieve and how I go about it before I can even make a start. Once I've succeeded once, then I know what a particular move/exercise should feel like and from there I can experiement to try and reproduce it again - althoguh if that's not working then I have to go back to mechanics again (if mechanics is the right word). I need to think things through until it's so obvious that I don't need to think any more - if that makes any sense?
I don't know whether it's related to the fact I also can't draw to save my life, even though I can see pictures in my head perfectly well? Maybe my mind simply isn't wired that way? Oh and I read the manual before using any electronic gadget too 
So are you a thinker, an experimenter or a mimic?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe we should be asking easiski - she must have a note or two on a substantial number of us by now 
That aside I'd say I'm a thinker, I need to know WHY something works (and agree) before my inner stubborn pain in the ass will let me move on to trying to actually do it. For physical stuff once we are talking about actually doing it I'm a mimic and feel person. SO tell me what, why, how it should feel, then show me.
For what it's worth I also can't draw for love nor money and have absolutely no spatial ability whatsoever! I've been known to lock my bike to itself instead of the rack etc etc etc, I just don't _see_ shapes/angles etc right I think...
aj xx
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You have have a bit of all three, but once you know how the ski works and what you are trying to do, then the mimic part should work ok. You do need to be able to dissect what you are doing which needs, a) video, b) an instructor, or c) a like-minded freind who is on the same level of thinking as you.
If you are struggling, then professional help in the form of a refresher might be all you need.. sometimes a pertinent comment might do it as well...depends...!!
It also depends how open or closed minded you might be...how unhappy with it all you are..lots of things might point to variations of....................................
Sometimes you just need to have a blast
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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eng_ch, I think many people find it, as JT refers, difficult to actually know that they are actually doing.
For example, you might see an instructor demonstrating this by bending down as though absorbing a really big bump and asking the student to crouch to the same degree. Invariably the student gets nowhere close. Which is why videos and external advice are so useful.
It's also not necessarily easy to mimic more complex actions - skiing bumps fall line for example.
The way my mind works, if I know the mechanics then it makes it easy to incorporate into my visualisation and mimicry.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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eng_ch, this is exactly how I learnt. After X no.weeks of lessons, I could repeat to myself the mechanics of making a turn. Every lesson we had, I picked up extra tips and 'added' them to my 'talk to myself' way of skiing. Then, the instructors started to tell me to relax because I was looking so robotic! However, I can now say that I don't 'do the talk' anymore, and it has become more natural to me. I want to say 'like riding a bike' - but I don't think this will ever be completely true. I find myself looking ahead and down the mountain, using different sized turns and enjoying the view. But, I know there are things I have to work on to improve. I think that after you have a 'base' of skiing, then you develop on that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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These days I'm more of a 'have a go and see if it works' sort of person, though I'll seek help if I get stuck. In the past I've needed to build a metal model of whats required, but that was because I was trying to do specific skiing for other people.
Now that I'm skiing for 'me' I only have to worry if what I do works. . .
It's interesting to compare adult learning to that of kids.
I doubt that young kids, say learning to throw a ball, build a mental picture of the action they need before they have a go. They just try to throw it a few times, refining what they do as they go along, and are not too bothered if it doesn't work out first time. 
I sometimes wonder as adults if we are not sometimes making the learning process more complex than it needs to be (and worry too much if we look silly having a go).
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My biggest problem is that the mental image and the reality of how I ski don't really coincide, so I need a practised eye (preferably backed by video) to let me know what is and isn't happening. I prefer to know the mechanics of what I'm trying to achieve, then try whatever mental or physical triggers I can until it begins to work. Just trying to copy a good skier doesn't work that well for me - partly because I don't know what they are doing (I can see overall body shape only, not timing or weight distribution for example) and partly because I'm not that sure of what I'm actually doing.
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| Quote: |
I sometimes wonder as adults if we are not sometimes making the learning process more complex than it needs to be
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Yes.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I *know* I overanalyse and the well-known sportswear firm has a point. For me the trick is to think enough to get beyond the thinking stage, IYSWIM. Hence the mnemonics and analogies. I like to understand everything so that I can pull out the nub of the matter *for me*. This spills over into working life too - if I'm translating a really verbose sentence then the key is to understand it then write the core of what it's saying, for instance. I guess I use the same sort of technique with skiing and many other things and if I don't understand somethinhg in and of itself, I draw the analogy with something I do understand without thinking about it.
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There are many models of learning styles, none of which are either proven or disproven in educational research.
veeeight, I'm in agreement with you but you might like to look at this and see if it helps you to understand how you approach learning a new skill
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eng_ch,
if it helps at all - I learn the same way as you...
I STINK at copying others... totally useless at seeing finer detail although it would appear I can copy timing, turn size, and general "demeanour" of my instructor quite well...
My instructors often use my sense of "feel" by requesting I change something in the feel of the turns... eg they may ask how a turn(or set of turns) "felt" and we may discuss what the technical stuff was behind why they felt "bad" in a certain way at a certain place.... they may then suggest I attempt to alter those turns by trying to do "xxxx" when I feel that again.... "xxxx" is often stuff like "don't press so hard on the snow" ..... the attempt to change the feel results in the required movement..... This relies(of course) on the fact they know me quite well and know my most likely response in attempting to do as requested - so our success rate is not too bad ..... doing it by myself still is dodgy though....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A few years ago, I did a learning styles inventory as part of a professional development course at work, based on Kolb's learning cycle. This states that there are four phases to learning: Concrete Experience (having a go at what works for you), Reflective Observation (thinking about what you just did), Abstract Conceptualisation (thinking about the principles behind what you just did) and Active Experimentation (based on your observation and conceptualisation, having a go at doing things a bit differently). People tend to polarise towards different areas of this learning cycle - that isn't to say they only learn in one way, but for different people, different things work best.
As a University Academic (now retired), I'm in the Reflective Observation/Abstract Conceptualisation corner - this means that although I love to learn by watching others and having a go/experimenting, I'm not happy with what I've learned until I understand the principles. That said, I have been told by several instructors that I pick things up extremely quickly by copying what they do. However copying isn't learning - I have to go and practice, understand why I am doing it that way, and then I can give up thinking about it all the time, and move on to something else. It is always good to revisit the principles occasionally in case you run into bad habits.
There's a whole of of stuff about this on http://www.businessballs.com/kolblearningstyles.htm
But I do try not to get too serious about it - what's the point if you can't just have fun?
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