Okay, now I have seen it written on 2 threads recently "There is no such thing as a stupid question".
Well there is something that bothers me in various instuction threads. There is a lot of talk about pressing down with the foot and other similar terminologies. Can someone explain how this is done. I press down on my foot and I stand taller. Am I missing something?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Frosty the Snowman, I'll give you a punter's perspective, then some of the qualified skiers will no doubt give a fuller explanation. I don't necessarily stand taller when I apply more force through my legs: it might mean that I follow a tighter radius turn, but my ankle/knee/hip maintains a similar level of flex. When I 'press down' it just feels like a more powerful action, not necessarily a 'taller' action. I think I can also extending my legs by 'pressing down' often at the very beginning of a turn, but this feels different to applying force to keep or tighten a turn radius.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Frosty the Snowman, can you be more specific as to in what situations you are asked to press down in your boot? Just so we understand where you're coming from.
veeeight, It was mentioned several times in the "how to not ski carving thread", but it also a term I have seen many times. it is also a term I do not quite understand.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
The closest I could find in that thread was this quote from Kramer:
Quote:
When I want to turn left I press down with my right foot, and my skis carve to the left, the harder I press, and the more I lean over, the sharper the turn.
With all due respect to him, what he said above isn't what I would teach. I also don't use that particular phrase (press down).
Skiing is all about balance - speficifally, blalancing on, or standing against, the (inside) edge of the outside ski. Especially during a turn.
We call this having a dominant outside ski.
Many recreational skiers don't commit their stance against their outside ski, their Centre of Mass (CoM) often is also over their inside ski. Whilst they can get away with this on the groomed runs, this will cause problems in varied terrain and steeper terrain.
So to cut a long story short and to simplify things, in many cases, you should feel that one leg is doing more work than the other in a turn.
In a Left turn, your Right leg and Ball of Foot should feel like it's pressing down into the snow, via the edge. Your left foot should feel considerably "lighter" than yout right foot in respect of "pressing down into the snow".
Picture this: you're on a bicycle - pedalling away. On every down stroke, that leg/foot is pressing down, whilst the other leg/foot is light or lifting up. Thats roughly (simplistically) the same sensation you should feel when you are skiing.
Simplistically:
The (outside ski foot) Ball of the Foot should be "pressing down" into the baseboard of the boot, during a turn.
Is that whay you meant? If not, say so, and we'll continue to explore!
veeeight, I am sat at my desk pressing down with the ball of my foot and I know what you mean, the explaining phrase is "the ball of the foot"
Ta very much.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
veeeight, that sums up the feeling that I get when I turn pretty well. Perhaps "pressuring" would be a better word for me to have used rather than pressing down?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Frosty the Snowman,
I wouldn't worry about a few terms here and there, its all about weighting the ski...and the more weight you can get on it, the more you will pressure that ski. In agricultural terms you could do this by lifting the inside ski off the ground, it would demonstrate the purpose.
Basically, weight bends the skis, tightens the turn.... and thereafter varying degrees of this and that...... blah..!!
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FTS, sit at your desk with your swivel chair, "press" down with your BoF with one leg, lift the other in the air. If you can get your chair to swivel back and forth, you are skiing and turning correctly.
Now to refine this, continue pressing the BoF with one foot, and with the other, instead of "lifting" it into the air, merely "roll" it over from side to side from the big toe, to the little toe! So both feet are in contact with the ground, but your soles of both feet/shoes are rolling from edge to edge!!!
How many people are doing this on a Monday morning at their desk>??!!??
Kramer, Just me being pedantic, but as explained elsewhere, I don't like to use the word "press" or "pressure" in this context. But whatever works for people, as long as it's not too whacky!
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
veeeight, worked a treat - trouble is, I'm in this "toilet seat" position most of the time I'm on skis!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Well, stand up and do it then!
(But not when you're on a real toilet)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
JT,
Quote:
its all about weighting the ski.
It is a difficult concept to understand. I can get more weight than most onto a ski, simply by lift a leg, but there is more to it than that. I presume I press down with the ball of the foot by putting (nearly) all of my weight on one ski, but allso trying to apply all that weight through the ball of the foot, and big toe?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Kramer, If you stood up and did this on the carpet, you now realise that you are going from edge to edge, using your ankles and knees.
Your body is not moving to the inside.
This is what you should be doing when you're actually on skis, initiating the turns using ankles, knees, hips, in that sequence. It's a gross error when skiers beginning to carve simply fly their hips from side to side in an attempt to roll onto their edges.
I call that back seat (hip) ruddering or hip steering. Not the finesse of rolling onto your edges using your ankles, knees (and hips will follow in naturally, as the speed and forces build up).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
It is a difficult concept to understand. I can get more weight than most onto a ski, simply by lift a leg, but there is more to it than that.
Correct. the term "weight" is often used confusingly.
I have heard many people shout "put your weight on the downhill ski" or "put your weight on the left/right ski". If you're skiing in a straight line, lift up one ski so all your weight is on the other, you will continue skiing in a striaght line.
If you're in the middle of a turn, and you move your body over the downhill ski to "put more weight on it" - you'll actually flatten the downhill ski and instead of tightening the turn, you'll end up sliding/drifting down the fall line.
Much better to think about standing against the downhill ski (inside) edge with the BoF. Or balancing against your downhill ski (inside) edge with the BoF.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
On a Phil Smiith course, some time ago , during one of the evening video sessions, Phil had a ski which had a label suck between the bindings (i.e. under your foot).
It said 'Press Here'.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Frosty the Snowman,
If you were standing upright your natural resonse may be to spread the load over the whole foot, but if you step forward, it will go to the ball of the foot. If you are in a good skiing position that weight will end up more through the ball of your foot which is desirable. I suggest it is done through driving the knee, others say flexing the ankles... it dosn't matter to me, the end result of the position is the same
I know we are talking semantics here as the snow is a long way away, but I know you can ski, you just need to define your position and then transfer that weight/pressure through that position. I can give you an idea at the PSB but you could ask Charlotte to nail it for you.
I just look at good skiers, get what they are doing and say yes or no to the way I think I want to ski.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
JT, If we're being really fussy here, there's a difference between weight and pressure.
Frosty the Snowman, If you're standing in a Q waiting (say at the supermarket), the chances are you'll stand on one leg and rest the other. Almost no-one stands equally on both feet. However you're very unlikely to actualy lift up the relaxed leg - that's just the same as skiing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
easiski wrote:
However you're very unlikely to actualy lift up the relaxed leg
I have heard many people shout "put your weight on the downhill ski" or "put your weight on the left/right ski". If you're skiing in a straight line, lift up one ski so all your weight is on the other, you will continue skiing in a striaght line.
Well, actually not quite. If you're standing with your feet hip width apart and you lift one leg (e.g. left), and don't make a compensating movement with your upper body, your CoM is now inside the foot remaining on the ground and you will start toppling (to the left), you will engage the inside edge (of the right ski) and the ski will start carving a turn (to the left).
Two ideas our coach is pretty keen on are those of a) pedalling, as you mentioned above, and b) "chewing gum" turns - imagine there is a bit of chewing gum under the sole of the inside foot and try lifting the foot to unstick the foot from the ground. This naturally lengthens the outside leg and shorten the inside. I seem to remember someone else talking about doing something ghostly with the inside leg .
As ever, these are all mental devices just to get us to do the right thing - whichever one works for you is the right one for you.
Personally I'm currently having trouble with doing both the a) tip the inside leg/place the little toe on the snow and b) the chewing gum/pedalling thing simultaneously - I can mostly do one or the other fine, but both together is a bit of a block at the moment, so I'm getting quite good at carving turns on the inside ski .
BTW The above is all to do with weight distribution for edged/carved turns on piste. Pushing agains the ski etc for turns in soft snow are something completely different - which I've not got a really good handle on myself yet.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
veeeight wrote:
Quote:
It is a difficult concept to understand. I can get more weight than most onto a ski, simply by lift a leg, but there is more to it than that.
Correct. the term "weight" is often used confusingly.
I have heard many people shout "put your weight on the downhill ski" or "put your weight on the left/right ski". If you're skiing in a straight line, lift up one ski so all your weight is on the other, you will continue skiing in a striaght line.
If you're in the middle of a turn, and you move your body over the downhill ski to "put more weight on it" - you'll actually flatten the downhill ski and instead of tightening the turn, you'll end up sliding/drifting down the fall line.
Much better to think about standing against the downhill ski (inside) edge with the BoF. Or balancing against your downhill ski (inside) edge with the BoF.
Absolutly.
Goes to show how seemingly straight forward language can put over different images to different people. I remember having trouble unstanding the instruction 'work the ski's more'
All these instructions can get confusing, can't they? One other aspect to all this, I was told... is to not only roll your foot over the edge to make the ski curve but to push your knee towards your toes on each leg. Whatt people try to do is kinda 'squat' which doesn't add any force to the edge. try it, standing up. If you just squat, you get the 'on the toilet position mentioned before. If you push your knees forward in turn keeping the rest of your body upright, you get that great ski feeling. And you can practice onthe tube or in the queue without anyone knowing!! They just think you're fidgetting, probably.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
"chewing gum" turns - imagine there is a bit of chewing gum under the sole of the inside foot
[aussie accent] nah nah sport. Chewing gum turns are when all you need to do to turn is roll your chewing gum from one side of your mouth to the other [/aussie accent]
After all it is free
After all it is free
I’m now thoroughly confused about where I should feel the pressure under foot. This string seems to emphasize the ball of the foot.
This guy says the pressure is at the rear of the arch. How do these two reconcile? Ball of foot and rear of arch.
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@Matt Dumas, nice thread resurrection!
IMV, pressure starts on front of foot and moves backwards thru the turn.
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Matt Dumas wrote:
...How do these two reconcile? Ball of foot and rear of arch.
It might be that ideas on stance/balance have moved on (even if only subtly) in the 16yrs since this thread.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Matt Dumas wrote:
This guy says the pressure is at the rear of the arch. How do these two reconcile? Ball of foot and rear of arch.
Not quite sure how you can put pressure through the arch at all, but generally we'd expect the CoM to be above the middle of the foot in a stable position, so neither predominantly on the ball or the heel. Through a turn or in variable conditions the weight may be momentarily moved forward and backward a little, but if it's moving about a lot then there's something more significant going wrong higher up the body.
I wouldn't focus too much on this, TBH. In many ways it's an output rather than an input i.e. it's not something you can control that then helps you ski better, rather it's a result of other factors. Sure, if all the weight is on the heel such that your toes are lifting, for example, then it's a_bad_thing, but this would not be the primary area that the problem would be noticeable or where we'd try to address it.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I sensed a time warp when I saw @veeeight posting again!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
First off, thank you for the replies and forgiving the my Lazzarus moment with the thread.
My initial thought was that I cannot control what is going on anyway. I am not at the carving level yet. I do know that when I am hockey stopping I can feel the pressure start at my toes and eventually I feel that it is the area just before my heel and into the heel that is digging in and spraying the snow as I stop. I guess this is one of those things where you just have to find a neutral position and let gravity/physics do the rest as you ski.
I am a little concerned as my new Strolz have what I consider a steep ramp angle and I am wondering if my neutral position is too heavy on the balls of my feet. Altering the zeppa will really change the feel of the customization as the boots were foamed with the zeppa as is! I have 40 runs on the boots. No pain anywhere. As a recreational groomer cruiser I am not sure how much any of this matters: Ramp/Delta/lean etc. My personality demands I research, read and obsess! My Rossi Speed 120 Ramp angle was much lower. Now in the Strolz cabrio shell and high ramp angle I am nervous. I will say though that my calves love the higher heel. No strain at all.
I will add that my dorsalflexion is amazing. I can really bend forward quite a way without my heel lifting. I have read that higher heel ramp is for those with limited flexion.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Matt Dumas, I can't help with the ramp angle in your Boots - That takes a Bootfitter who has the skill to look at how you stand on your skis/alignment......a skill that Solutions 4 Feet have in house.
IMV. A good Instructor needs to guide you through the key movement/sensations required to improve carving skill. It is very easy to focus on advanced manoeuvres before you are ready.
It is no harm knowing how a ski turns.....but at your stage, doing drills that allow you to balance against the outside ski, like the Stork Drill, will likely prove more effective at the start.
It is important that you are neither too far forward, or too far back and that you don't get left behind at the start; that you are in control at the end and do smooth S-Shaped turns.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think if you're worrying about exactly where in a boot you are pressing you are into minutiae that are simply not relevant for the very great majority of recreational skiers. Ball of foot is simply a focus point to stop you lazily leaning on the backs of your boots and getting backseat and if you are stacked above the balls of your feet you are best "ready" for any other forces or actions. No-one can teach you to ski with words on a page - you have to feel and dynamically adjust your balance. Go turn the 40 runs into 40 days and you should find that what you are feeling in a well fitted boot becomes irrelevant and you start "feeling" your edges. Skiing is intrinsically easy if you develop "feel" for your edges - don't let instruction and equipment nerds confuse you.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
^+1
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
DoTM - much wisdom.
Practice. And more practice. Of the right things. I stand in the ski position in my house and I can sense how I can force my feet down into the ground without raising my body - yes, sounds contrary to Newtonian Physics, but it’s not - it’s a sort of massive tensing of all my leg and core muscles. And I can feel my feet spreading and engaging with the surface of the floor. A sort of ‘getting ready to pounce’. Standing still is not the same as being in exactly the same position but ready to pounce or leap. And that’s the ‘active skiing stance’ which advanced coaches advocate - and you can see it in really competent skiers, a sort of cat-like powerful stillness as they ski, which in fact represents the fact that all their muscles are working flat out all the time to deal with buffeting and holding edges precisely engaged and on track. How do you develop this mysterious and mystical quality? Practice. And more practice.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
, during one of the evening video sessions, Phil had a ski which had a label suck between the bindings (i.e. under your foot).
.
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[/aussie accent]