 Poster: A snowHead
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I've just posted on the "longest run" thread mentioning so called "pistes" shown on piste maps, which look impressive but in fact rarely have the snow conditions to allow you to ski them. Obviously the resorts put them on the map to impress, which I think is a bit naughty to put it politely.
The ones I mentioned on the other thread are:
The run down to Bourg St Maurice from Arc 1600. It's rarely open and even although I was there four weeks you could only once ski down to the mid station of the funicular.
A theoretical run down to the bottom of the main valley below the main village of Verbier. I have been there about five times but never been able to do it.
I can also think of the two black runs of the top of the Bellcote glacier in La Plagne. I was there four weeks and they were never open. I was told that the previous season they were never open at all.
Does anyone else know of any phantom pistes?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The black runs from Schwarzsee to Furi in Zermatt are rarely open these days, but I wouldn't agree that this makes them 'phantom pistes'. If everything has to be guaranteed against a map, you'd find ski resorts guaranteeing very little.
Let nature take its course, and provide the courses, as and when. Let the maps indicate the potential runs. No, they're not guaranteed. Sorry!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 8-10-06 20:27; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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richjp, the run down to BSM is an itinerary rather than a piste (it doesn't appear on the piste map).
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Is the Sella Ronda a continuous run? Sorry if its a stupid question (and I realise it might be) but I've never read a clear explanation of this 'circuit'? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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halfhand, yes, I done it in 1996 and you can go either clockwise or anti-closckwise - do not know the distance though, but it takes a couple of hours.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
The black runs from Schwarzsee to Furi in Zermatt are rarely open these days, but I wouldn't agree that this makes them 'phantom pistes'. If everything has to be guaranteed against a map, you'd find ski resorts guaranteeing very little.
Let nature take its course, and provide the courses, as and when. Let the maps indicate the potential runs. No, they're not guaranteed. Sorry! |
I have to disagree with that.
When people look at a piste map when assesssing a holiday, I think they are entitled to assume that the pistes shown will normally be open, with the exception of very early and late season.
I think we also have to remember that the majority of skiers would fall under the broad category of "intermediate" and may not have the experience to see that what is shown on a piste map may not be there in reality.
Obviously resorts cannot guarantee snow and I never suggested they should. They do however know very well what the practical possibilities are in their respective areas.
Sorry!
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I would not call the Sella Ronda a continuous run as such. It is a circuit connecting about separate five villages which sit around a central massif. So you take the lifts up from one village and then ski down to the next and repeat the exercise five times eventually ending up at the village you started from but at the other end of it.
Very enjoyable.
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Isn't that the whole problem with today's ski consumer, though? Everything must be snow-cannoned, groomed, marked ... open. A piste line on a map indicates a piste that will be open when there's sufficient snowcover. Ski areas can't reasonably be expected to guarantee stuff, unless we want mountains to be artificially controlled to the nth degree.
Skiing is moving too far from being a resource of nature.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ski areas can't reasonably be expected to guarantee stuff.[/quote]
While resorts can’t control the weather they are selling a product so if that product is not meeting expectations (within reason) they should not be advertising that product for sale
If a resort says in has 200km of piste it should be reasonable to expect the vast majority of it to be open most of the time in an average season if some runs only open in the years they have bumper drops of snow I think that is pushing things
If snow canons are needed to do this so be it again if a resort says it has 50 cannon I would expect them to be used when required temperature permitting
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richjp,
| Quote: |
| A theoretical run down to the bottom of the main valley below the main village of Verbier. I have been there about five times but never been able to do it. |
It's not theoretical. I have a colleague at work who used to go to Verbier every year. He's done it many times. Keeps on going on about how awesome it is.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Garfield wrote: |
if that product is not meeting expectations (within reason) they should not be advertising that product for sale
if a resort says it has 50 cannon I would expect them to be used when required temperature permitting
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I think you should play more golf. When a golf club says it has 18 holes, it has 18 holes. If they say they have 9 holes, they invariably have 9 holes. Obviously this skiing lark is a bit too dissapointing for you - what with it being dependent on the weather and that 
Perhaps the mountains should be built higher, with less dramatic slopes. Yes that would do it - move all the "useless" slopes from the bottom of the mountain up to the top. That way your expectations would always be fulfilled ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have twice skiied down from Meribel to Bride les Bans and got the gondola back up. That is a long gentle run. One we started on the St Martin side and the other from the Altiport. With minimal effort we could (perhaps we did, it was a while ago) have started from the top of either side of the valley. On one of these trips our ski teacher got some wire cutters out to modify a fence and make our passage easier.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| richjp, the run down to BSM is an itinerary rather than a piste (it doesn't appear on the piste map). |
Thank you for that. It was a long time ago since I was there however I am pretty sure it was marked as a piste then.
Showing runs of that nature as itineraries is a good solution to the issue I raised IMHO.
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You know it makes sense.
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David Goldsmith, And now these Schwarzsee runs have attained that mythical yellow status, rather than black!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Perhaps because they are so rarely open 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| hibernia wrote: |
| halfhand, yes, I done it in 1996 and you can go either clockwise or anti-closckwise - do not know the distance though, but it takes a couple of hours. |
Surely much much longer than that : it involves about 8 long lifts (I don't have the map to hand) and at one point (Colfosco to Corvora) you have to take a lift which just links 2 places in the valley.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, yes, can't exactly recall it being ten years ago, but was an enjoyable 1/2 day at the very most starting from Val Gardenia.
It's a route I'd really love to do again.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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smolo,
No chance you will find me playing golf EVER
If you are choosing the resort you go to on the strength of their description you have the right to expect the majority of the facilities to be available most of the time
If a resort says 60% of its slopes are covered by snow cannon they should be getting used when needed conditions permit
If we ski we have to accept the vagaries of the weather as a fact of life
We should not accept resorts pretending they are something they are not for the vast majority of the season
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I guess a few Snowheads take a dim view of the Glencoe Access Run then!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| richjp wrote: |
| I can also think of the two black runs of the top of the Bellcote glacier in La Plagne. I was there four weeks and they were never open. I was told that the previous season they were never open at all. |
One of those slope (Le Rochu) has been open last winter. Here a photo taken on 14th April 2006
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| I guess a few Snowheads take a dim view of the Glencoe Access Run then! |
OK I have to hold my hand up to this one
I dont think they will have many winters when all the runs have been skiable at the same time
If I head north its usally to Glenshee and Im impressed if half the runs are skiable
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| RG wrote: |
| richjp wrote: |
| I can also think of the two black runs of the top of the Bellcote glacier in La Plagne. I was there four weeks and they were never open. I was told that the previous season they were never open at all. |
One of those slope (Le Rochu) has been open last winter. Here a photo taken on 14th April 2006
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Well at least one of them was open - I always wondered what they looked like from the top! Looks very good actually.
I understood that the problem with those runs is that it takes a lot of snow to cover the rocks at the top which is suggested somewhat by your excellent photo.
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Yep...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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BTW the Tiger T-bar has been condemned in the name of Health and Saftey - being significantly steeper than advised limits for surface lifts. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mike Lawrie wrote: |
richjp,
| Quote: |
| A theoretical run down to the bottom of the main valley below the main village of Verbier. I have been there about five times but never been able to do it. |
It's not theoretical. I have a colleague at work who used to go to Verbier every year. He's done it many times. Keeps on going on about how awesome it is. |
Skied it 6 or 7 time last winter, the year before (04/05) 15+ times, 03/04 just 2 times. 03/04 was THE year (in last 10) for snow in Verbier but it was all high up. So as everyone else says ^ it just depends on the conditions, not even the snowfall.
There's a better example for this this in Verbier too. The Mont Gele. Some years they barely open the lift, some it opens only if you ski with a guide. Last winter IIRC it was fully open for 4 days, the year before c. 7 days but in 03/04 it was open a fair bit.
I understand the frustration with this but it's silly to whinge about it. If they did take these runs off the map and then conditions were right to ski them how would you know they are there? 
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| I guess a few Snowheads take a dim view of the Glencoe Access Run then! |
The access run is one of the Scottish victims of climate change. 15-20 years ago when I sometimes skied there I remember it as more often open than not, though it was often rather icy. Quite a nice black when its open (I never did the red - I gather it usually involved skiing over some heather.)
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
(I never did the red - I gather it usually involved skiing over some heather.)
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Thats Scotland!! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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[quote="parlor
Skied it 6 or 7 time last winter, the year before (04/05) 15+ times, 03/04 just 2 times. 03/04 was THE year (in last 10) for snow in Verbier but it was all high up. So as everyone else says ^ it just depends on the conditions, not even the snowfall.
There's a better example for this this in Verbier too. The Mont Gele. Some years they barely open the lift, some it opens only if you ski with a guide. Last winter IIRC it was fully open for 4 days, the year before c. 7 days but in 03/04 it was open a fair bit.
I understand the frustration with this but it's silly to whinge about it. If they did take these runs off the map and then conditions were right to ski them how would you know they are there? [/quote]
I think the answer as I mentioned earlier in this thread is to show them as ski routes. That way you are aware that they exist but it also indicates that they are not normal pistes. It would also be less of a disappointment to the more inexperienced skier who looks at his piste map and sees a nice looking long red run, only to find it rarely open.
I found your comment about the Mont Gele very interesting. It's years since I have been to Verbier but I went there about five times in total and the Mont Gele was nearly always open and you were allowed up without a guide. I suppose it indicates how much more safety conscious resorts have become.
Have they upgraded the Tortin lift yet??
Only kidding.
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