 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fraserp, I've had 12 Winter North Sea crossings, six were mill-ponds, four were uncomfortable and two had the crew barfing and curled into whimpering foetal balls just like the rest of us. Travelled on Norfolk Line HGV ferries (clean, friendly, good value for food and drink) and the SeaCat (fast and a bit pricey for entertainments - of which there are many)
In Winter you have to live with the risk, try to get a cabin as near the waterline as possible, don't eat before you sail, take sickness pills with you and if you are a bad sailor use them. Fresh air and a horizon you can see WILL take the edge off the urge to hurl and if you don't have the choice, ALWAYS do it with the wind behind you.
When heading for Portugal, we always went, Portsmouth - Caen on the overnight ferry, driving off, rested and freshly showered, pointing the car South onto the empty French N roads with a pink horizon on my left shoulder silhouetting my passenger was just a perfect start to the Summer . . . good times 
Follow the signs for Lille and the A17 and you'll soon be on the motorway (have they finished the link to the port?). If it looks very busy, all the ferry docks are full and you get into port at about 8AM, head down the coast road to Oostend and get on the A10 to the A17, it's not too much further and you will miss the Brugge by-pass rush hour.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fraserp,
The North Sea fleet consists of the Pride of Hull, Bruges, Europort and Rooterdam, the former go to Zeeb and the latter to Europort. These ships are at least the equivalent of the best ships P&O run to Dover Calais and you can see an example on WWW.Poferries.com so a floating sickbag is unfair, I'd say. However it is the North Sea which can be rough but so can the Channel route.
If I lived that way, I'd have no problems using that route as your port to the 3V is very good time in my book
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fraserp, why not just fly?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Masque, Thanks for the route hint, i'll take a look at that on the map.
Tim Brown,
Good question. By doing it this way, I have much more choice. Done this particular ski trip 2 times, so far, but via Dover. Just fancied a change of route.
If not travelling with the rest of the herd (tour op) I can choose when I and how I travel. I tag on a few days before and do another resort, this year maybe La Plagne, then go to Courchevel. On arrival day when others arrive in the afternoon and are messing about with ski's passes, lesson bookings, I'm just coming in from a days ski-ing. You generally people free slopes on change over day. On departure day, when everyone else is up at the crack of dawn, bussed to Geneva or whatever airport they're deposited at, I get up at the normal time, pack the car, have a half or full days ski-ing then start the journey home. Overnight somewhere, on way home it's a beer and booze run.
I could book my own flights and go to say Chambery, again these are less flexible and I am not prepared to put my skis through the treatment the baggage handlers meter out to them! Or get lumbered with excess baggage or "so sorry sir, your skis didn't make the flight", all of which I have fond memories off. If its not on herd day, then it costs to get to the resort. I could hire a car but that can get 'real' expensive.
Flying is quicker but I then think driving suits me more. With the right sized car, two or more passengers it's definately the best option. (IMHO) For me the journey, experience , meeting people on the way is all part of the holiday. I'm in no rush, just pace myself. Hey ho. 14 weeks to go ... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fraserp, I have had similar problems getting to Dover, but don't remember it ever being as bad on the way back.
When would you get back home using this route ?
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fraserp,
I'd be looking at 3 and half hrs to Manchester, maybe 4 plus from Dover
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Masque,
| Quote: |
When heading for Portugal, we always went, Portsmouth - Caen on the overnight ferry, driving off, rested and freshly showered, pointing the car South onto the empty French N roads with a pink horizon on my left shoulder silhouetting my passenger was just a perfect start to the Summer . . . good times
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IMHO, there's nothing better tham driving south or east at the start of the day any time of year, particularly in France, sun (hopefully) and all day to do it! 
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fraserp, I have done the Hull routes several times and as said the ships are excellent. The sooner P&O go non smoking the better as I am always struck by the strong smell of smoke throughout the ships. One advantage is that you get off the ferry having had a bed for the night and your destinatoion is still driveable the same day. The problem is on the way back is that the sailing is 19.00 but you are supposed to be there 90 mins before departure and so an early departure from resort is advised.
Main concerns \ unanswered...
Weather - rough seas? (it is Jan) Depends on the wind really  . My advice would be to eat fairly early and if its rough just go to bed. We came back one october half term where the weather was atrocious. Many ferries were stuck outside Dover for 12 hours or more (imagine the horror of that) wheras Hull and Zeebrugge have no such problems in bad weather. Leaving Hull it takes a good 90 mins to get into the unprotected sea so plenty of time there before any weather hits.
Ferry - is it a floating shed \ sick bag? The ferries are nice, a pleasant place to spend an evening, food is good and cheaper if pre booked (still not cheap, but you can eat as much as you like) The ships are more cruise line than drty ferry
Roads arround Zeebrugge - easy access? Roads are fine. You will get more holdups getting to the ferry terminal through Hull
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I used to go through the Dover route and drove down from Newcastle but I could stay with my mate in Asford to get a couple hours of sleep before staring the continental journey. For the last six years I used the Newcastle to Amsterdam ferry and never looked back.
There has been a few snowhead reports complaining the rough North Sea, typical because their children got sick or something like that. Think I have done about 12 trips mostly in Winter for skiing. There was only one outgoing motorcycling trip that I got a stomach upset on the ferry and had to go to bed early.
We typically spent £300 for two of us sleeping in an en-suite room driving a large 4x4 for the round trip. That is to us two hotel rooms, 4 dinners and the transport with the vehicle across the North Sea.
To us the best part is to start fresh at 9am from Amsterdam. In one hour we would be in the fast German Autobahn. This enable us to reach resorts in Germany, Switzerland, France, Austria and Italy in the same day.
I believe the service between Hull and Zeebrugge has a large ferry than the Newcastle/Amsterdam route and so the ride should be even better.
Winter is a high season for the flights but it is an off season for the ferries. I prefer driving and use of the ferry because I could avoid the crowd just about everywhere I go skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman,
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The problem is on the way back is that the sailing is 19.00 but you are supposed to be there 90 mins before departure and so an early departure from resort is advised. |
I'm coming back via Calais (at the moment anyway), leave resort PM on the Sunday, (After last bash) stop over on route to Calais. Really depends on the weather, for the journey time. Shop on Monday AM (cigs + booze), lunch in Calais, then ferry PM. No shops , of any consequence, open on Sunday in France. Arrive MCR, late evening on Monday. Well, that's plan A.
Plan B... will be decided or adapted as required. No sprogs or significant other to negotiate with! 
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Frosty the Snowman,
P&O have gone non-smoking on the Dover Calais routes...I think its a company wide policy but then the Dutch might think otherwise on North Sea routes
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, That would be excellent , and about time to as it was a problem for me.
EDIT: I have e-mailed P&O as it would appear only Dover Calais is cough free.
fraserp, A good idea to go out one way and back another. Let us know which you preferred.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've done the Rosyth-Zeebrugge route and the Newcastle-Amsterdam route (twice for each, but all in August).
Zeebrugge you just need to drive a bit carefully, and watch for the road signs, because there is one tricky (and non-obvious) lane change, else you end up in the frieght port.
Both Amsterdam/Ijmuiden and Zeebrugge have pretty easy access to motorway network, although much more distant than Calais.
Zeebrugge to French Alps must surely be 1hour or so more than Calais?
Newcastle route has pretty good ferries, and largeish. Rosyth (for those in Scotland), have seemingly smaller ferries, with very little to do on-board. Not done Hull route, so can't comment.
I usually do Harwich-Hoek van Holland, and often kip over in Ibis hotel in Rotterdam.
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Poster: A snowHead
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andy,
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Zeebrugge to French Alps must surely be 1hour or so more than Calais? |
According to TomTom, there's little between them.
Calais - Courchevel - 8hrs 18mins 591miles
Zeebrugge - Courchevel - 8hrs 49mins 604miles
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The P&O Hull-Zeebrugge (and Hull-Rotterdam which leaves later) routes are very classy boats in my experience. For those of us in the North it saves a lot of driving and you do arrive well -refreshed. They allow you a fairly full nights sleep unlike many other night sailings (eg to Dublin). Boarding starts quite a long time before departure - in fact we've often had our meal before the ferry has set off.
They are not that cheap but are high quality. The last time I was on one, in the summer to Rotterdam, I'm fairly sure that the smoking (long a curse of ferry travel!) was either banned outright or confined to one bar area.
HTH, Paul
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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velodocuk, Welcome to snowHeads!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Used to do that route reasonably regularly about 16-18 years ago. I used to really enjoy it. For what that's worth these days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just thought I'd cost this out. For trip 16th/17th March-31st March/1st April.
Hull-Zeebrugge
£329 for a return trip in March, with meals and 2 berth cabin, 9hrs 44 mins to resort. Tolls and petrol £129 (x2) = £587
Easier to negotiate P&O than the DFDS site.nd a 2.5hrs shorter drive from the port. Although we would have to get to Hull, I still think the drive in France of 11.5 hours from Imuiden is too far to do in one go.
Newcastle-Ijmuiden
£442 for same dates, meals and outside cabin. 11hrs 40 mins to resort. Tolls and petrol £126.75(x2) = £695.50
Durham to Serre Chevalier via Dover.
Driving time 15hrs 42 mins, tolls and petrol £167 (x2)
Crossing £126 (noon both ways) (free with Tesco Clubcard vouchers)
Hotel Campanile Reims 54 euros (108 total approx 75 pounds).
Breakfast 14 euros for 2 (total approx £22)
Dinner about £80 for decent meal with wine (40 each way)
Total cost. £637
Additional costs and things to consider-fees for dog. Possible overnight stop Ijmuiden-Serre Chevalier.
Edited, as I didn't double petrol costs.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 9-10-06 21:50; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Helen Beaumont, I am presuming your toll and fuel figures are for a single journey only.
I would certainly consider trying Hull Zeebrugge, it is very relaxed, and it misses out the M25
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Frosty the Snowman, edited above, oops.  . I'm still not convinced about having to leave the dog overnight on the crossing though. She gets upset when we leave her at the kennels here, and she lived there for 3 months. I should compare the flights and car hire too, to make it fair.
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Flights
NCL-GVA 16th March return 24th March (last dates flights are on sale). £193.96 (Easyjet).
Car Hire £250. (Compact estate)
Petrol and tolls, £140
Total cost. £583,96
Due to flights not being available for after 24th, this is a shorter trip. Car hire would be £373 to stay until 30th March, making total cost of £706, assuming similar flight prices.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman,
If you have travelled all the way down from Yorkshire, I can't imagine that the M25 is the bain... The M1 is a terrible road in my view and the short time you spend on the M25 - 45 mins via the Bridge - can't be anywhere near as bad, surely
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Frosty the Snowman, went down to Brands Hatch once a few years ago, travelled late at night to avoid traffic.
Joined A1139 at Peterborough and put the van in 5th gear, 7 miles later take the slip road onto A1 then A14, M11, M25 and less than 90 minutes later I had to change down a gear again as I got to the crossing. I think it was the most boring run I've ever done in a vehicle, nothing to do but sit there at a steady speed for nigh on 100 miles, if I'd had cruise control I think I could have gone to sleep. Give me a twisty A or B road any day of the week, much more fun.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FenlandSkier, Imagine driving overnight to the Alps 
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Mucho respecto to the long distance drivers, be they workers or holiday drivers, in my typical working week 25 miles would be a long journey
Of course the key to any long duration drive is preparation and what better place to start than Kaleco Auto.
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You know it makes sense.
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JT,
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the short time you spend on the M25 - 45 mins via the Bridge - can't be anywhere near as bad, surely
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You'll have to excuse us from 'up north, going down t'smoke', expecting reasonable speeds and find the M25, the worlds biggest car park! 45 mins? And that would be when? It usually takes me 45 minutes to join the M25! I agree with what Frosty the Snowman, said I've also spent that sort of time in the toll booth queue.
Joking apart, I have had real good journeys to Dover, via the M25, but these are few and far between. I usually allow an hour and a half for that part alone! I always find the UK park of the trip the most stressfull. I'd rather get bored cruising at 80MPH on the autoroute, or higher in Germany, getting some miles under by belt, rather than the UK Mway network bottlenecks. It's not that there wont be incidents on the M6 or MI or other roads, you know there'll be a delay on M25. Bring on the boat from Hull! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I use Newcastle/Ijmuiden ferry regularly but I wouldn't do a 11.5 hr journey. I would choose somewhere nice and shorter to stay and have a couple days skiing before say at Junfrau region, Swiss side of Porte Du Soleil, Germany Garmisch Partenkirchen or somewhere in Austria bfore I drive to the main resort in France Tarentaise or Itailian Milky Way. There are many nice resorts within a 600miles radius of Ijmuiden and driving in Germany is a lot faster and less stressful than in France.
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Poster: A snowHead
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saikee, unfortunately I don't have the luxury of the time to spend an extra night travelling to my destination, nd it adds to the cost of an already expensive journey, don't forget I have an apartment to go, and my ski pass for there is already paid for. I was trying to point out that it doesn't save time on the journey.
JT, would never go to Dover via the m1, route as FTS said earlier. The M25 stretch is the busiest, but we don't usually find it too bad on the outward journey, as we usually cross Dartford by about 11am, on a Saturday or Sunday. It's coming back that's always the problem, as it's usually mid-afternoon.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here are some of my recent trips with the M25 in the mix. I am about 35 mins from the M25 depending on which way I go, ie the Bridge or Heathrow, North or South I'll join the M20 at jct 9
To Luton via the Bridge, 90 mins to catch a 0930 plane
To Stanstead, numerous times ...about 75mins, if that.
To Gatwick 50 mins, all but rush hour
To Heathrow. 90 mins.... this is the worst part of the M25 by far IMO. avoid rush hour like the plague
To Shrewbury, via the bridge, and M1, M5 etc . 3 and half hours.
Back from Shrewsbury ona friday afternoon via the M40...aaaarrgghhhh.... wasted an hour between heathrow and the M3...
All driving done at a brisk and not so ilegal speeds.....the M40 was rampant with fast but crap drivers with no lane control, reminded me of driving on Italian motorways..
I'll accept that the bridge and Heathrow can be a real pain if you catch them at the wrong time...ie rush hour. You can't legislate for a crash ..andf thw M1 is by far the worst, I'd say.
But considering how overcrowded our roads are.......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, I hate the M1, have friends in Harpenden, so have used it quite a lot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Brighton - Stranraer once took me three days.
Left about 9 or 10 on saturday night, Roads were fine, Got about as far as stoke on trent and the wheel fell off our trailer and careerd down the motorway past the car. By this stage it was about 3 am on sunday morning and a tow at this time, with a trailer is understandably not cheap. 110 quid to the nearest lay-by 1mile down the road. Of course being a sunday, none of the local trailer shops were open and as our trailer contained all our expensive musical instruments, we couldnt leave it. Coincidentally enough it was also the hottest day of the year and the day before my girlfriends birthday, which i promised I'd be home for. Got up at about 6 30 on monday morning after "sleeping" in the car with two other sweaty teenagers and waited for the shops to open. Drove round till we found a shop. Got the two new suspension units for the trailer but they didnt fit so had to get them redrilled. It continued till eventualy we got moving at about 3 o clock. Straight into a 2 hr standstill on the M6 i think it was.
Eventually arrived at stranraer at about 11 o clock on monday evening, hopped on the ferry and was home by about 2 30 i think, just in time to miss my girlfriends 20th birthday, for which i got a chewing.
Moral:
- as ridiculously obvious as it might seem, without meaning to patronise - Check over every little bit of your car with a fine toothed comb before you leave, probably best to get a mechanic to give it a quick once over, and don't take any chances with slightly old tyres etc:)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Confusions,... confusions..! fraserp, This is a really great thread just seen it while searching something else & had really forgotten about the Hull - Zeebrugge ferry route. I had intended to fly & hire a vehicle for 4 months, & flying home and back during the season, but having just got a fare check of £163 early January, one-way on Hull-Zeebrugge, it's put the 'taking my own vehicle' option back on the burner. You LUCKY peeps have only one ferry crossing to take to get to see our European cousins....I have to take TWO. But travelling across to Hull seems more civilised than facing the raised blood-pressure levels & combat that is the M25 and its environs (desired exclusion zone: 100 miles)
The Hull route gels in very well, far better than driving down to Dover. I would get a Dublin - Holyhead crossing, arriving Holyhead 10:35 and be able to toddle across to Hull for departure there at 19:00. No hotel to worry about & arrive Zeebrugge at 08:30 local time, thence tallyo to La Roche (Bourg St. Maurice) RAC Route Finder gives this last part of the journey at approximately 10 hours, so arrive about 19:00.
Tom Tom's quoted 8 hours + seems very good - is this fairly accurate or optimistic?
Am I missing anything here...? Financially there isn't much of a difference difference. I like driving so that's not a problem. I can get a direct ferry back to Ireland in May, via Cherbourg - Rosslare. I have a winter-kitted Landrover Discovery which will be far superior to a rented Fiat Sedicci (no offence intended to the Sedicci's) & I can take goodies out & bring their goodies back, plus skis etc. I am becoming convinced this is a cunning plan..........coffee now to contemplate further.......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman, ...you're right...I can do 'uncivilised' now - you're a good teacher.. 
Irish Sea crossings normally are a rip-off, but I was mildly surprised at 119,00 euro, one way, for the Swift - 90 minute crossing, not cheap but not too bad. I am estimating (again in conjunction with RAC route finder) 5 hours from Holyhead to Hull - is that about par for the course..?
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BernardC, if you've got time to spare on the Holyhead to Hull stretch you could always stop at Castleford and get an hour or two's practice in 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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BernardC,
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Tom Tom's quoted 8 hours + seems very good - is this fairly accurate or optimistic? |
About right, legal speeds, assuming no delays or stops. Factor in 10 Toll booths or so, the odd delay and it'll soon be 10hrs, but hey, it's not a race. (Gendamerie will see to that) Depending on the time of day there can be queues at Peage. Why not try a TelePeage tag?
30 euro, 2 euro pm for the month used. Sail through!
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FAQ
Now if there was only another route...
