 Poster: A snowHead
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I had a very sweet american client early in the summer. The guy lives in Caraccas (not much snow there), but has a lodge in Sundance and skis a lot in Alta and Snowbird as well. He grew up in Boysie, Idaho where he also has a place. He's skied most of his life.
OK, down to the nitty gritty: having seen someone carving in Japan, he decided he wanted to be able to lay down those double tramlines. So he went to the ski schools in all the above mentioned places to ask for carving lessons - to no avail! In Sundance he was told "That's European Carving- we don't do that here". In Snowbird he could have had a lesson with an Austrian instructor on a Saturday morning, but this option wasn't available to him. Anyway - he ended up coming up to the glacier for a week in JUne in order to learn it. He didn't quite get the whole thing, but managed to substantially change his positiion and to carve the middle and end of the turn, but not quite the very beginning. He's gone off now to practise (and I know he will - he's that sort of guy).
Well - I was shocked that in major name resorts, he couldn't get lessons in carving. Is this common? Is this why traversing is aparently so unpopular in the States? Do they all skid their turns? I don't know the answers, and have sat on this for a long time for fear of upsetting some folks who I'd rather not. But I really want to know wht's going on here!
Please elucidate. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, not sure about Sundance, but I can testify that Snowbird and Alta instructors have heard of carving, and do know how to teach it. If you want I can get some names for you to suggest to him.
(but please remember how crap a skier I am, and weight these comments accordingly)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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After the Sundance brush off, did he ask in Snowbird to be taught "European Carving" or just "carving"?
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easiski, I don't understand how he got the answers he did, but it is what it is, I guess. Carving is one of the major goals of most students in the States (as elsewhere, I think), and thus lessons in it are available pretty much everywhere. The high-end PSIA materials all show and discuss it. So, I am as confused as you are.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| easiski wrote: |
| he decided he wanted to be able to lay down those double tramlines ... In Sundance he was told "That's European Carving- we don't do that here". |
What sort of carving do they do then? Woodcarving?
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They were teaching carving in Sunshine and Lake Louise last year but Canada is not quite America but its close.
easiski, perhaps Martin Bell would be able to answer for you.
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Russell, ssh, who replied above, is a PSIA ski instructor! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The only thing I can think is that there was some miscommunication. Even so, I can't imagine a kind of carving that you couldn't get someone to teach you at any major resort here. The one thing that occurs to me is that Sundance is a powder-covered Utah resort, so perhaps they focus solely on off-piste technique. But, again, that just doesn't make sense.
Here in the Summit County areas, you can get "hypercarving" lessons (sans poles), normal piste carving lessons, race carving, and so on. Most of the intermediate/advanced skiers who ski with me want to improve their carving, so we spend a lot of time playing with the various tipping skills (and, primarily, eliminating the pushing of the tails and related historical habits ).
Again, the interpretation was off, I believe. What happened in that communication is anyone's guess, but it does not accurately reflect US ski instruction.
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Have to admit it sounds well strange. All of my American clients last season were no strangers to edging skills.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The more sensitive amongst you may wish to avert your eyes (Foxy etc.)
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veeeight, good shot of a guy showing average PSIA teaching, but claiming it as the best race technique ever, how he invented it, and how he trained all the world's top racers...
(anyone who points his poles out SIDEWAYS is not that good  )
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yoda, elbows in front of the knees!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sounds strange. In Canada (well Banff/LL at least), carving is the only game in town so far as the instructors are concerned, and from the few lessons I've experienced in US, the same applies. What are they teaching people to do with carving skis if not, er, carve?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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...there is one possibility... IF he turned up at Alta with a pair of powder skis on a powder day and enrolled in a powder class and asked about laying down carved turns, then they may have looked at him funny.
...edit, there is a SECOND possibility...
If he used the word "tramline" as easiski used above, they may have been confused - a "tram" is what we would call a cable car - runs on cables suspended from pylons - such as the Snowbird Tram, or the one at Männlichen. (and in San Francisco, a "cable car" is what we would call a tram ). The normal slang I've heard in the US for carving parallel turns is "railroad tracks".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Here's a quote from his first email to me - no confusion there " I am a 53 year old male who would like to learn the art of ski carving. I am an OK skier but I still slide my tails too much when I turn. " I am totally astonished by the whole business, but he explained himself very succinctly above, and as an international educator I never found him confusing at all.
Anyway - I'm relieved to hear that "normal" skiing is alive and well in the USA! With all the HH sh*t (BTW feet were too far apart for him) I wa sbeginning to wonder. Also interesting to see that ssh calls it tipping not edging.
Thanks guys! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| easiski wrote: |
| Also interesting to see that ssh calls it tipping not edging. |
It's a subliminal message to his students
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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marc gledhill, 
Colin B, it is difficult to be consistent within a single educational organization, much less across continents. Check out Interski sometime. All of the organizations show each other what they are doing, and there are definite differences.
However, what was with the "running before you can walk" comment?
I think that you Banff instructor was likely right on, but what was your ADH instructor trying to communicate with that comment?
One significant issue: skiing has changed in the past decade. The equipment has evolved dramatically, putting carving within the reach of pretty much any reasonably athletic intermediate skier. Before that, it was limited to the very highest reaches of the sport. As a result, some who learned instruction prior to the revolution may have missed the changes, and some may actually reject them. Sad, but true. I am not saying your ADH instructor was one of these, but they are out there. And far more than I would like there to be for the sake of the students...
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You know it makes sense.
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ssh, I'm thinking that there may have been a problem with body position, and perhaps Colin was inclining and getting too much weight on the inside ski, before being able to hold an edge?? I'm guessing here, but he's coming to LDA in January so we'll see. I'm not a big fan of 50/50 or even 60/40 weight for early skiing as I think it creates more problems that it solves, however it's perfectly easy to edge both skis without neccesarily weighting that ski too much. The inside ski will carve even with minimal weight, but we don't know if Colin's at that point yet. Another who came to me last year had been definitely taught to weight both skis evenly all the time, with the resultant problems on steeper slopes.
Actually in the main, it's surprising that there's so much convergence throughout the world, but Interski doesn't always bleed down to the average working instructor, and many nations (French and Austrians spring to mind) are so convinced of their skiing superiority that they won't even look at others at ground level. I do think this is a shame. I asked a few French and Italian instructors if they'd be interested in an end of season get together that was mooted by Rusty Guy last year, to see what we all do, and get some input from the US and vice-versa. There was almost nil interest if they had to pay to go there. What a shame. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| skisimon wrote: |
| easiski wrote: |
| he decided he wanted to be able to lay down those double tramlines ... In Sundance he was told "That's European Carving- we don't do that here". |
What sort of carving do they do then? Woodcarving? |
Its October.............pumpkin carving?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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aaarrghhhhhhh
(on behalf of wtfh )
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spokesman well he speaks. Photographs in skier use all rotation in turns. Only deny by is one. BS Maximum marketing all he does.
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Wear The Fox Hat - err, yes and, err, no.
Skiers 3 and 4 show what's happening (I think) - they're carving the turn, but cheating the turn radius by setting an initial steering angle whilst their skis are in the air...
I think...
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Hmm silly me. When fox hat refers to sideways pole, joke I think he make. Now having read all responses I realise serious he was, or blind I have become
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ssh the pelvis movement in the Rocca montage: Extension Drives Pronation thread?
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comprex - I think rick had a montage that was a very good example.... I seem to remember he wrote me a description of what was happening...
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