 Poster: A snowHead
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Last year I spent 200 gbp on lessons for my 11 and 12 year old, they were in a kids group and bored witless.
they are much more competant and quite happy to jump, freestyle and do all the things that I'm not yet capeable of!
So my question oh learned ones, is; Will my kids now 14 and 12 have anything to gain from the ESF (La Clusaz) if I try to push them into an advanced group?
Thanks for any advice!
Chris
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think it depends an awful lot on the standard of that particular cell of the ESF.
While there are undoubtedly some good ESF branches out there, more than a few a rubbish and woud be out of business long ago but for the name.
The independents tend to try harder and provide smaller classes although the weekness of some of them is that being smaller, they may still have a wider range of abilities in that class.
Even so, I think I'd rather my child be in a group of 6 or 8 of varied standards yet have the attention of the instructor than be in a group of 16+ and barely be noticed - after all, who's going to tell if they're in the wrong group?
Another salient question is whether the childcare aspect of ski school is important to your holiday.
If not, then devoting similar funds to less instruction time but on a 1-1 or 1-2 basis might prove more beneficial 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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knobby, when ours were around that age, they quickly got fed up with ski school. If you need them in ski school at all, (and we quite enjoyed spending the whole hols as a family for a change), get them to do something different, freestyle lessons perhaps, or go and learn to board with them or something. They won't be in a kids group now they're over 12 though, and maybe there's a teenage group they could join. Is there an alternative to ESF? Even if they are more competent than you, they can enjoy themselves on the jumps at the edges of the pistes while you struggle on down that blue run. Now they are 18 and 16, they quite enjoy an occasional lesson, off-piste tuition, freestyle etc.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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They are at a bit of an awkward age, a bit young to let off the leash! We've got a 2 and a half year old too. I think (out loud) that i was hoping that an Adult "experienced" lesson might benefit them, while having someone keep an eye on them.
I believe that over 12 is Adult in France! at least for lessons
C
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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On Whistler we run a "Ride Tribe" teen program, all round ski improvement, jibbing, jumping, natural hits, steeps, powder, trees, bumps, races, park & pipe etc. etc.
Sounds like they would love that program!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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knobby, some of the ski schools (not ESF AFAIK) run race, freestyle, off piste programs for kids, dunno what their cut off ages are but I'm guessing they'll cater for teens, and you have to be a competent skier to be included
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veeeight, my boys loved the Ride Tribe, but it isn't in La Clusaz unfortunately for knobby.
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knobby, I'd have to agree with Helen Beaumont, Our teens 'hated' group lessons from about that age. Solution was to get them a private lesson or two for the four of them together. Less time but more attention. Afterwards they just ski'd with us (well far ahead of us actually!) 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yup I agree. It HAS to be fun.
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SO.... Is the general feeling that even the adult advanced lessons just ain't that great?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Our now 11 year old had exactly this issue when he was 8 and found himself with a group of teenagers. We've since tried to solve the problem variously by:
- the ESF competition class - try and get them to tell you what ages they've got booked into it in advance if you can (they're not keen to divulge);
- failing that we've resorted to race camp (arm and a leg job) for our now 11 year old;
- and finally, taken a private instructor/guide and included the 11 year old in the hairiest activites that could be found
a combination of all 3 seems to keep him happy ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you poma, I'll try to reseaerch "race camp"!
is that ESF?
C
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ESF competition class = race camp in French with French kids;
real race camp = English snow club, residential/non residential, only happens during school holidays - I think you can get links to all the English snow clubs on the SS England site. My son trains with the KAndahar but DHO run similar as do a number of others. warning - will cause terminal damage to bank account.
oh - I've just seen you're in Bristol too, so are we!
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You know it makes sense.
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When my kids were that kind of age we travelled with relations and they bombed around with their equally competent cousins and often with other kids met in the catered chalets we usually stayed in(they had all had lessons at younger age, and were not interested at all in lessons of any kind). We went to places where they were not likely to get themselves into big trouble and arranged compulsory rendezvous at lunch time. I reckoned that they were statistically at least as safe as they were here on their bikes (or on the way down, on the winter autoroute at 80 mph) and that they would survive. They did. They never missed a rendezvous and when one of them had had a crash they were so determined to demonstrate that they could cope, and could be sensible, that they never moaned. "It's nothing mum, don't fuss, I'm fine". They also all went and had a private snowboard lesson one day - starting something new could be fun, and would mean that for a little while you could be ahead again, knobby. Some ESF do "ados" classes (ie teenagers) but especially in school hols all their classes are far too big. I don't think many kids that age want to do ski school though now, as young adults, mine relish having private lessons so long as I am paying! I firmly believe that kids need to be allowed to take more and more responsibility for themselves, gradually, as they grow up. Some school leavers these days have done practically nothing on their own - no camping trips, nothing away from their parents, then want to fly to Thailand on their gap years and be let loose with booze flowing like water in the sex industry capital of the world. Come to think of it, many parents want to "arrange" their kids gap years too, which rather misses the point. Race camp would be fantastic, but I guess only if they are really interested in being pushed technically - mine were good enough skiers but they just wanted to have fun and would not have wanted to do a race camp. One of them is now a superb skier (lived with a BASI 1 ski instructor all last season in Val D'Isere) but completely non-competitive and would still not want to do a race camp. He still just wants to have fun. In somewhere like La Clusaz you could maybe give them a boundary to ski within, and let them get on with it. Especially nowadays, when you could contact them by mobile phone or 2 way radio. But they would have more fun with some other kids - maybe try to find a chalet with other families? Sometimes chalet ski guides will take a group of kids out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for the guardianship Pam, Do you really only do 80 on the autoroute?
My kids are good skiers and responsible. I'd just like them to be taught how to do it properly, but avoiding another two hours a day of them being taught how to snow plough. We've got 49 of us going to a hotel, so we're not short of friends, but we're very mixed ability. Also we're sensible enough to not drag the newbies into situations which would endanger them or put them off for life. The jist of my question was much more "do the ski schools still have something to offer for advanced skiers" than "should I trust my kids" 
I think i need to borrow your competant cousins or live in ski instructor!
thanks C
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Poster: A snowHead
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| knobby wrote: |
| SO.... Is the general feeling that even the adult advanced lessons just ain't that great? |
Can't speak for others but our experience is that past the basics (and possibly including them) 'group' lessons are not particularly effective. Combine this with language issues, and large (>10) groups and the effectiveness drops off sharply. We have had quite a few 1-2 or 1-4 lessons where we paid for a private instructor who then took us out 'alone' and treated us as individuals. These were much more enjoyable and successful. One (ski) instructor even allowed our snowboarding son to tag along and (as a snowboarder himself) gave him some useful tips on technique!
Like most things in life you gets what you pays for, but just a thought, if you have 49 people skiing together why not organise some small groups (of say half a dozen) skiers of similar ability and book private tuition between you. This is likely to be far better than anything you'll get from ESF, much more enjoyable for adults and juniors alike, and maybe not massively more expensive.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks AxsMan,
Good Idea
but here's the humble question.. where do I start to find an independent Ski Guide?
Chris
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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knobby, Good question for all the SnowHeads on here! What resort are you going to? (Someone is bound to know someone!) 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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La Clusaz.
Christmas week (23rd 30th Dec) Great Snow last year!
and for lessons;
a handful of beginners.
a teenage group of around 8
a intermediate group of 8
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If nothing else comes up most of the ski schools will allow you to hire an instructor for a day, out of the main school hols, then you can use them for a variety of sessions throughout the day.
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I'd just like them to be taught how to do it properly
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OK, but you haven't said what THEY want?
Yes, I generally try to stick to 80 on the autoroute. Less if its foggy or icy, obviously. Boring, but has enabled me to avoid contact with any other vehicles, pedestrians, street furniture, trees or anything else for approximately 1 million miles on 5 continents. Touch wood...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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La Clusaz.
Christmas week (23rd 30th Dec) Great Snow last year!
Very Happy
and for lessons;
a handful of beginners.
a teenage group of around 8
a intermediate group of 8
And yes it's during school holidays
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In absence of any other SH feedback, you could contact the companies direct. But if you do, please post what you find on here.
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Thanks Skanky, I'll give it a couple of days to see if anyone can recommend a guide and then start mailing.
I'll let you know how we all get on!
only 89 days so I'd better get cracking.
C
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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knobby, nice one, good luck.
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Agree completely withpam w (on all fronts actually!) My son is a mere minnow by comparison at only 8 but has had 9 weeks on snow in the last 5 years and after 4 years of ESF group lessons he really didn't want any more
There were a group of 8 of us ranging from complete beginners to strong intermediate and we did very much what pam w, suggested(and actually along with easiski it was she that suggested it to us last year) - hired an instructor for ourselves for 5 days (called engagement BTW) Our son loved it, skiing with a couple of friends they all learned loads and he is a far better and safer skier as a result....and actually the same applies to the adults involved too! Oh and it was about 20% more expensive than ESF group and at least 10 times the value!
Even though you're going over xmas could still be worth trying the ski schools as it was half term when we did it - but we did book about now.
Only downside is they'll NEVER want to look at group lessons again!! (actually though, neither do I!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Private lessons it is then. Did you book yours through Easiski?Annie, ?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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knobby, What Annie, did will work best for you. Book an engagement for the whole week (through the ESF will be fine), but insist on a young, english speaking instructor (and buy him/her lunch)! No, other than the suggestion I had nothing to do with it - I don't work in either resort. 100% LDA for me!
The ESF does not necessarily mean large group classes - they do a whole range. It's just the TOs that book only class lessons, cos they don't get commission on privates (at least AFAIK)
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when I said this
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and finally, taken a private instructor/guide and included the 11 year old in the hairiest activites that could be found
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that was exactly what I was talking about - we have developed a really good relationship with an ESF instructor on this basis - he gets to know our foibles and weaknesses, areas where we need pushing etc - and there's a degree of flexibility too.
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You know it makes sense.
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insist on a young, english speaking instructor
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right on. helps if he's good to look at too!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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knobby, Hmmm doesn't read very clearly does it! As easiski, says I can only credit her with the suggestion but I'm flipping glad she made it!. You may have to persevere and try several ski schools to get someone that suits. If those in La Clusaz don't come up with anything it might be worth contacting schools in nearby villages e.g. Le Grand Bornand. We had to do this last year when we were in Morillon whch is staunch ESF territory who couldn't help and ended up with a school from Samoens - turned out the instructor lived in Morillon village anyway so was actually very convenient for him. As an aside, apparantly we caused a bit of a stir as it was 'unusual' for another ski school to venture so far into 'ESFland' round there Good luck!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Annie, Considering the first independent ski school in france was in Flain (just over the same mountain), that's amazing!
knobby, You should also specify that you will want some work on freestyle, eg: I don't do it (but then I'm not young!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd have thought that sticking "BASI" and "La Clusaz" into Google would have been a help - but having tried it it doesn't.
So I thought I'd have a look on the BASI web site. But there doesn't seem to be a central register of BASI ski instructors and where they teach.
easiski - any idea if there is a central register? I'd be amazed / horrified / shocked if there wasn't. But not surprised 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flain (just over the same mountain)
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not the last time I looked, easiski!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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easiski, yes, I though so too, and was a tad doubtful at first but during the whole week only saw 1 other non -ESF instructor (from Les Carroz) on any of the local Morillon slopes...and there was plently of good natured playful territorial warfare between our guy and 'the locals'. I think that the stir had as much to do with us being English 'family skiers' having the knowledge to arrange it ...now where did that come from???
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well as i had some time on my hands I sent out a speculative mail to all of the ski schools on the La Clusaz website. (thanks skanky, )
I know its three months till the season kicks off, but I'll see who bothers to reply!
I haven't yet insisted on a beautiful blonde instructor yet! (thanks easiski)
I HAVE contacted ESF (thanks easiski, )
And If I do hear anything from anyone, I'll let you know! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Speakin from my own memory.
My parents used to put me in ski school for half a day and then ski with me half a day. I always loved this combo as I got to show of to my parents half the day and ski with other kids the other half.
Also it gave my parents a half day on their own and cut the cost of the ski school.
Think its a good way to do it.
One thing though its always booring to be best in a group but its awfull to be worst in a group...
Tex
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PhillipStanton, No - there isn't. It's something that caused me to stop being a member. They do NOTHING for members who've finished all the exams. Various efforts have been made to register the whereabouts of BASI instructors (Grade 1s anyway), but BASI won't release the database, and won't ask the members if they want to be advertised. HUH!!!! (end rant).
knobby, You may not hear anything, and may have to get on the phone. The offices should be manned (PC?) for at least part of the day, but they don't seem into replying to emails - I reckon I get a lot of work that way, when I'm the only one to reply from 4 emails! Anyway, they'll be dark, not blond if they're French!!!
TexMurphy, Most (if not all) ski schools in France only do either morning or afternoon lessons anyway.
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they'll be dark, not blond if they're French
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yes, but I've seen some sexy dark Frenchmen in my time...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Both ESF and SnoAcademie have answered my emails.
I'll digest and fill you all in!
Chris
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FAQ
