 Poster: A snowHead
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Dear All
I've always bought salopettes and jackets a little on the cheap side and have found them to be mediocre at best (as you'd expect). As I'm off to Levi in Lapland in February, and expect temperatures of around -40*C, I want to splash out and get some excellent skiwear - in the hope that it will keep out the cold and last longer than the cheaper brands.
I also want them to be fashionable. Can anyone help?
Durham Red.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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At -40 I'd be found wearing a pair of jeans and a t-shirt in the nearest bar!
I think any of the brands stocked by the big wintersports retailers are suitable - just about all of them would be up to the job providing the other clothes you are wearing are suitable. It's best to have several layers that you can wear underneath your waterproof kit, so don't skimp on things like a thermal layer next to your skin, a mid-layer or two to provide insulation, then the outer layer to keep out the wind and and snow. A good hat or helmet will make a major difference to how warm you feel (40% of body heat radiates through the top of your head), and I find that a fleecy neckwarmer is the difference between feeling comfortable and miserable when the temperature is very low. If you are going to get extremely cold temperatures (anything much below -25) you should get a facemask (neoprene with a fleecy lining) to make sure you don't get a touch of frontnip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would think that skiing at -40 is impossibly cold for feet, hands, ears. Spending loads of money on a ski suit won't necessarily achieve superior insulation.
You'll need big mitts and some kind of exterior ski boot insulation to be able to stand those temperatures, for a start, I would think. If your extremities aren't very adequately protected, forget it.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I would think that skiing at -40 is impossibly cold for feet, hands, ears. Spending loads of money on a ski suit won't necessarily achieve superior insulation.
You'll need big mitts and some kind of exterior ski boot insulation to be able to stand those temperatures, for a start, I would think. If your extremities aren't very adequately protected, forget it. |
It's not "impossibly cold", just VERY cold.
Layering up has worked for me.
1. Silk base layer
2. Thin socks
3. (if using shell trousers) Track suit bottoms
4. Trousers
Top half:
1. Silk base layer
2. (if using a shell jacket) T shirt
3. Microfleece
4. Jacket
Hands:
1. Silk inners.
2. Gloves.
Head:
1. Balaclava with built in neoprene face mask
2. Helmet.
(the key here is to make sure you have no exposed skin on your face)
Well, it might not work for everyone, but it has worked fine for me in the past at those sorts of temps.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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With the polar ice cap melting as fast as it is you should just take your swimmies.
I've experienced -40ish once in Vermont and -30ish in quite a few places notably Alberta and Norway. A genuine -40 is not a lot of fun frankly and I seem to remember retiring early to the bar! Wore the same Descent suit on all accasions and I've yet to find anything so effective at maintaining warmth when you need it most and yet being totally comfortable when in more mormal temps. Obviously you're aware of the need for the right undies and layering, insulated head gear, inner gloves, face mask, iceproof mascara.
I reckon there's loads of great clothing out there that'll cope. My other gear is North Face but it simply isn't as effective or bullit proof as my Descent stuff. Can't you just go somewhere warmer?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
I reckon there's loads of great clothing out there that'll cope. My other gear is North Face but it simply isn't as effective or bullit proof as my Descent stuff. Can't you just go somewhere warmer? |
Unfortunately, can't go to anywhere warmer as we have a Levi wedding to attend, so are combining it with a ski holiday.
Thanks everyone for the layering advice.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
| Quote: |
It's not "impossibly cold", just VERY cold.
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I do think you need to be nuts to stay out in -40 though. It's just OK if all's going well and you've got your clobber right. The real problem occurs if you have an accident that imobilises you... it might be a straight race between the ski patrol and the grim reaper.
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... and the grim reaper doesn't have to haul a bloodwagon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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... or worry about face mask, boot warmers etc
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Durham Red,
Start with an ice breaker or similar and protect the extremities. Your face, hands and feet will be the first to complain. Not sure I've been out in temps that low, - 30 probably......... but have got caught by a very bad wind-chill and thats NO fun...!!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Regular 5 minute warm-up stops are probably a good idea too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Durham Red, I've been to Levi and it can get very cold but it's not really that bad. A fleece neck warmer is an absolute must. While you're there an absolute must is snowmobiling, you can rent Yamaha racemachines that can reach nearly 200km/h, not that I did of course !
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| LARGEZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Durham Red, I've been to Levi and it can get very cold but it's not really that bad. A fleece neck warmer is an absolute must. While you're there an absolute must is snowmobiling, you can rent Yamaha racemachines that can reach nearly 200km/h, not that I did of course ! |
Good God, that sounds fun.
Any more advice on clothing for Lapland from someone who's been there Largezookeeper?
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You know it makes sense.
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Durham Red, Take normal warm clothes and layer properly, If you are in an appt they all have drying cupboards and Sauna's yippee. Otherwise local's are very friendly and can talk about anything as long as it concerns fishing or reindeer  Don't forget your hat
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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The wind took the temperature down to -40 in Canada one year.
A quick trip into the nearest store. The purchase of a face mask, mittens (not gloves), silk glove liners and the nice little heat packs you can put in your gloves and off we went quite happy again.
I have since purchased a Ripzone jacket which is a Canadian company. They must know what they're doing as I've always been toasty in the jacket. Six seasons on (and plenty of abuse, washes etc) and this jacket still looks good and feels just like it did originally!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Durham Red, and remember, "cotton'll kill ya".
Any modern base layer should be effective - you should be able to find "cheaper" brands online. Some swear by Icebreaker and while I think my merino mid layer is astonishingly good, I wouldn't want it next to my skin (being of a sensitive disposition I get itchy easily).
My other "hot" (falls off perch in fits of laughter) tip is Patagonia's R4 jacket here
I bought one in Whistler when day 1 was -35 C and we had to chocolate stop every 2 runs. Most cosy thereafter. In fact, it's so warm I hardly ever wear it - it's effectively 3 fleece layers fused together - a base layer inside, a windproof layer and a mid layer outside. Just don't buy it too large...I have a Medium when I should really have bought a Small...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've skied in -35 and it was not very much fun. Zero skin exposed required at all times. If you get a tingling sensation, it's not pins and needles, it's the start of Frostnip, leading on to Frostbite. I suffered the early stages and it's permanently marked me.
Kjus have just become the best trousers/salopettes you can get.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Skied for a few hours at -65F (bear in mind there are an extra 32 F degrees before you get to 0) in upstate NY once.
It was so cold that the lifties instected you as you got on and off every lift. If you had any flesh showing at all you were not allowed to proceed until it was covered.
It was a bright sunny day and the temperature drop as you went into the shade was incredible....it was ski in the sun or not at all.
At about 2.30 the sun went behind the mountain...by 2.40 the pistes were deserted...it was just too cold for anybody to continue.
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Nickski,
| Quote: |
| I've skied in -35 and it was not very much fun. |
, ah
but the SNOW!,
the densest of talcum powders,
the friction so high that you notice the acceleration when you get up on edge
(and you know a million snowboarders couldn't scrape it off),
no clumping possible so no death cookies or coral reef
(nor nobody sitting on the trail neither)
the breeze swirls coldsmoke powder bunnies so every run is fresh
teee heee!
( dangit, can't get to Canada 'til 27 jan)
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rungsp, -40F is the same as -40C , -65F: 5*(-65-32)/9 is only -54C but the mercury is frozen at this point and who carries a (calibrated) ethanol thermometer around anyway?
Durham Red, Western Mountaineering Flash Vest (under Arcteryx) or Feathered Friends Volant jacket = me toasty.
as David Goldsmith mentions, boot covers are very important, though my Thermoflex/Intuition boot liners are warmer than most others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't care what you are wearing, nobody sits on a lift for more than 3-4 mins in -40 and stays warm.
The coldest I think have been out in is about -30 and you could barely get your skis to move since we didn't have cold weather wax. 15 min lift ride froze us, we skied one run and sat in a restaurant for 2 hrs to warm up properly. No-one else on the hill. At all.
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Just spotted M&S have their mens thermals in! Couldn't see any of the womens stuff yet though. Certainly the womens stuff kept me very warm last year, & is not bad a price - the mens today was £17.00 for a long sleeved vest & £12.00 for long johns (maybe the other way round!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| flicksta wrote: |
I don't care what you are wearing, nobody sits on a lift for more than 3-4 mins in -40 and stays warm.
The coldest I think have been out in is about -30 and you could barely get your skis to move since we didn't have cold weather wax. 15 min lift ride froze us, we skied one run and sat in a restaurant for 2 hrs to warm up properly. No-one else on the hill. At all. |
Tuck all your layers in and have a curry the night before.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skanky wrote: |
| flicksta wrote: |
I don't care what you are wearing, nobody sits on a lift for more than 3-4 mins in -40 and stays warm.
The coldest I think have been out in is about -30 and you could barely get your skis to move since we didn't have cold weather wax. 15 min lift ride froze us, we skied one run and sat in a restaurant for 2 hrs to warm up properly. No-one else on the hill. At all. |
Tuck all your layers in and have a curry the night before. |
Very good advice!
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Durham Red, if you really are experiencing that coldness, make sure you are with a buddy all the time you are outside - and take advice from the locals about whether you should be there in the first place. Check each other to make sure all your clothing is properly done up - and that the external layer, at least, looks appropriate. And keep an eye on each other . -40 deg C is in serious survival territory, IMV. Also remember wind-chill factor - any wind blowing will increase your problems. I wouldn't give a hoot about looking fashionable - warmth is your No 1 priority. Good luck.
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You know it makes sense.
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Durham Red, I have a 2 old jackets made by Couloir, another Canadian company. I bought them both in Newcastle, but i don't know if anywhere in the UK stock them anymore.They were guaranteed to be warm down to something like -25C. One of them is white and purple though, but still gets worn on really cold days. I have never been cold in it. As for my Marmot one, I freeze in that. Lots of layers is the trick.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I wonder if any of you here have been in anything like -40 deg C? It is dangerously cold, particularly if there is a wind blowing. I have been in Newfoundland in mid-winter. Quite a while ago, and I don't remember the exact temperatures. My employer took strong safety measures, issuing us with special winter kit on loan, and making sure we were instructed in its use, as well as insisting that we had a similarly trained companion with us so that we checked each other over before going outside, and monitored each other's well being. Quite a few of us have skied down to temperatures as low as -20 deg C. That's cold enough. -40 is a whole bunch worse and needs to be treated seriously, IMHO.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Approaching -30º is my limit, and that's with not much wind chill. If there is wind at that temperature things like chairlift rides or any exposed pistes can be deeply, deeply unpleasant. At that temperature discretion is the better part of valour.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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achilles,
Probably agree, if its too cold for what you are waring, its too cold...you don't need a temperature to tell you that.
I remember arriving in VD a week after it had been -25 for few days and loads of peeps had scabs from the cold which I understood to a be a stage of frostbite.
I have had frostnip on the cheeks after spending over 45mins on the Ag du Midi Arrete. It was a bluebird day down below but you could just see the snow getting blown of the ridge. The guide made me rub my face for at least 15 mins in the sun and out of the wind until he was satisfied we had dealt with it... Looked like giant blisters..!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm off to spend a week in Levi in Lapland on New years and have been really all your replies about layering etc, been skiing before so we have the jackets and trousers, thermals etc but these thermal suits that you can hire. I believe from reading other forums that you can hire them on arrvial at the airport. Does anyone know if you can hire them once you are at the resort? as I want to see how things go 1st and don't want to fork our £80 unecessarily!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just a suggestion............ to keep your hands cosy.
When we went skiing the other year in Bulgaria we took these little metal cases that you can ingnite and put in your pocket to keep you hands warm... I don't know what there called, perfectly safe, you get them from a fishing shop....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Durham Red, skiing in -40 ???
The coldest I have done was -16 in Austria last year and that was bad enough. From Pity me to Levi - I'd be with rob@rar.org.uk in the bar.
You must be very keen to ski in those temps !! 
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Italian Ann, Welcome to snowHeads!
I've used something like that, not for skiing, but when out to watch fireworks and nightime ski displays. Very cosy!
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Italian Ann,
Not sure about anything metal in those temps...!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Italian Ann, some friends went on a trip to see Santa, and were given these suits by the tour ops.
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Its not your core its all extremeties that suffer. It was so cold for a few days when I was in Canada once that you could see who'd been up the hill by the scabs on their faces and you couldn't walk in the evening. You literally had to run beween pubs (even in down jacket, hat, facemask, gloves etc). I went to the cinema one night and outside of Everest base camp I'd never expect to see so many down jackets in one place.
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