 Poster: A snowHead
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I cannot see the point in so called ' Intermediate skiers' buying skis.
Firstly, i cannot define an intermediate skier(IS). The nearest i can get is:
Someone whom isn't completely confortable with the entirety of skiing (weather, situation, temperature, equipment, environment).
They probably ski 5 times in a five year cycle, maybe one year twice, maybe another year not at all.
They want so badly to improve so they can ski together in the group they are on holiday with, so take lessons in big groups, don't improve, but make new friends.
Anybody of this mindset would be better renting.
You can change your skis daily, keep up with developments that help you, try a variety of lengths(oooh eeer) and have not worries regards to storage or transport, repair or maintenance.
This area of the ski industry is where all the marketting exists and most of the mistakes are made at purchase.
If you are thinking of buying a ski, please do so, your the one whom works all day for your money, so it's your choice. However, if you are sure you want to buy a ski, jump up to the so called 'Advanced/Expert' models. You're buying a ski, that shows commitment!
A so called 'Advanced/Expert' ski isn't going to bite you. What it will do is expose the flaws in your technique, give you a clear direction of what you need to work on. And she'll still be good to go when you get there.
I hope this is of help, all the above said there is one important thing you ABSOLUTLEY MUST DO before buying any ski......................................................................................? Any ideas? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Buy boots. And get them fitted properly
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Drink a skin load of beer ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, chased with a bottle of Absinthe? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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AxsMan, or do the exact opposite - refuse to buy because of the grapics!
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On a (slightly more serious) note, I have to say that I would need to extend your definition of 'intermediate'.
I have been skiing regularly for three seasons only, but have managed to pack in 3-4 weeks per season. I haven't had group lessons (apart from once - another story) but have had quite a bit of one-on-one or one-on-two from a variety of (all very good) instructors. I am now quite happy on all but the most icy or mogulled Red's and have done a couple of blacks albeit with my butt cheeks tightly clenched.
Now I HOPE that I'm not a beginner, I KNOW that I'm no expert, so that puts me somewhere twixt the two. Intermediate feels about right. I'm not fit or dedicated enough to scale the heights of 'advanced' so a happy intermediate I remain. I own a pair of Bandit B2's which give me great joy, and if I get about 3 weeks a year out of them for the next few years probably work out about the same in cost as hiring, but I know how well they have been serviced (or at least how often).
So based on the above, I would say I was an intermediate for whom buying skis made sense. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, funny fellow. Hot shot-hot spurs? Hot SHITE-hot SPUDS! 
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Wear The Fox Hat, Good point, well made 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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AxsMan, Is a B2, marketted as an intermediates ski? I know alot of experts whom use them. I think you made the right decision and bought a great ski. All the fluff below this kind of model is the stuff i'm talking about.
I would like to see all intermediates follow your logic, by buying and accessable advanced all mountain ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It would be interesting to see the results of a "blind" ski test....
My 5* - loving passed on from spyderjon - are classed as expert (I think) and my rating on the SZK scale is probably a little bit above intermediate. It's true that they force me to think a bit about what I'm up to - otherwise they decide for me  which I don't remember other skis I've used doing...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The thing is, young SMALLZOOKEEPER, is bindings. Having had a ruptured achilles tendon on rented skis (B3s) last season, there is the niggle that the heel-release failure may have been caused by faulty bindings. Now I am extremely lucky if I can get 3 weeks skiing a season, these days. 2 is more the norm. So I had settled on the rental idea. But now I am not so sure. And there is the the lack of choice at even quite good resorts ("No, we don't do K2 Apache Recons or Scott Santiago Mission - but we do have B2s..."). Of course, if I went to the ZOO, all would be well. But I don't fancy Chamonix this year 
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've always considered the B2 to be the baseline aginst which to compare. It is liked and disliked by many but seems to find it's way onto a lot of very experienced pairs of boots.
I first skied them wjen I hired a pair in LDA last year at the PSB and instantly knew they were better for me than my C9's, they then became the reference for me when testing all the other skis at the skitest, including the 'new' version. End result - I bought a pair to call my own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I think you have clarified something that I was a little concerned about, but the Pie Muncher got there before you at lunch the other day. . . it's always nice to have it confirmed by someone else in the know. So, all that remains is for me to decide whether or not to purchase ski's for my 3 weeks skiing per year or stick to hiring. If I hire, do I tell them I am an advanced skier or Intermediate, now doing some blacks and venturing off piste (ish), love speed on reds, also on Phil Smith's All Terrain course in December?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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B2 users Stand Proud! Punters maybe, but happy skiers all 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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AxsMan, normally the decision is along the lines of "we're going over.....HERE and we're doing it quickly" ... but I think what SZK says is true - they help me improve my technique.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| AxsMan wrote: |
| B2 users Stand Proud! Punters maybe, but happy skiers all |
and that is ultimately the goal whatever you ski/board on after all.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| IncogSkiSno wrote: |
| If I hire, do I tell them I am an advanced skier or Intermediate, |
NO!
Tell them:
| IncogSkiSno wrote: |
| doing some blacks and venturing off piste (ish), love speed on reds, |
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Wear The Fox Hat, hear, hear!
The thing about the B2 is that it does everything reasonably well. It's not a true performance ski because it doesn't punish you when you get it wrong. To me it lacks "feel", but then skis are intensely personal. However I generally agree with SMALLZOOKEEPER, that if you decide to buy skis you should try to buy a ski that will take you forward, even though you might have a week or three on them when you're not entirely comfortable. thus, the skis will help you to improve, you'll use them for longer which will make them better value, and you'll be able to pass them on to the next "intermediate" when you're ready for something more specific/performance orientated.
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...so when I test a ski for the day, I should be looking for something that feels slightly too stiff/agressive/rapid rather than something that does exactly what I tell it to 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sharkymark, generally, yes. That's where I find the most fun, when you aren't pushing the ski's limits, but it is pushing yours.
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Sharkymark, I think you should look for something that rewards you, pleases you and gives you clear ideas of it's properties and possibilites. Something that does what you tell it to do isn't a bad thing, but will that be all you want it to do?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sharkymark, yes! But pe prepared to suffer a bit to start with! My friend Aztec (she still hasn't posted) got Scott Aztecs for Xmas last year. She's a good intermediate, trying hard to get to advanced. Likes skiing off piste (would ski deep all the time if she could), can manage blacks etc OK, but occasionally has a minor "freak" on steeps. She found the first 2 weeks a bit of a mare - we warned her - but is now really happy on them, and skiing much better. The ski has forced the improvement we were trying so hard for. She had been a bit "plateaued".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sharkymark, I don't think you'll get a pair of Stormriders at the Mondial, but the others for sure. You can rent the Aztec Pros from Jutta. I do hear, although don't know, that the Stormrider is a very stiff ski indeed, and only recommended for technical skiers - SMALLZOOKEEPER, do you know about that?
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brian
brian
Guest
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easiski, sounds about right for the XL. It has a little brother, the Stormrider AT, which is a bit more forgiving.
btw, a pair of XLs would be about £150 cheaper bought in Switzerland compared to UK (I think S&R is the only UK stockist).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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easiski, actually, CEM warned me about that last week...he suggested the AT version if any.
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Poster: A snowHead
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easiski, I have them on test here should anyone fancy. In the same programme that is all Volkl, i'd push them towards the Dynastar 8000 customer who wants a bit more Zip!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sharkymark,
Not sure I know how you ski but the 174 XL should take you upto about 6 ft and 80kgs and you will not be able to get too lazy on them. This way you should offset the stiffness of the ski and make it bit more skiable. Unless you can dominate the ski you don't want to be on the 184's. Try the Laser SC from Jutta and if you can ski that then the XL should be within your scope and it will take you further afield without sacrificing anything on piste IMV
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Also, try the Recon, its smoother and therefore a bit easier to potter around on if you get tired. You can push it quite hard...but not as hard as the XL, and it will work for you. Doesn't quite have the top grip of the Stockli but you have to get the compromise somewhere. The 8000 is a very good ski but doesn't quite have the all-round capabilities of the XL or Recon. The XL and Recon will work well OP and play well on -piste, the 8000 is slightly better off-piste but not as good on-piste, I'd say. Depend where you ski will be the final choice as they are all good
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JT, thanks for the info...I'm 6ft 2in and 75kg so not far off
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, How does a performance ski punish you for making mistakes as opposed to rewarding you for skiing correctly. If it is by falling in the powder is this likely to be dispirting to the powder tyro?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I think that there are many experienced skiers who know they're not very technically skilled and probably never will be, but nevertheless enjoy skiing and wish to enjoy the the time they have available on the mountain to the utmost. This means they don't want to visit a hire shop and all too often only get a limited choice of poorly maintained or non-ideal skis. I'd guess many would also be unconcerned by the relatively small amount of monetary/hassle difference between buying and hiring. In such a situation, all they'd want is a ski that suits their level of skiing, one that they are comfortable on, and that flatters their skiing, for when they're pottering about and for when they feel they're zooming about. I don't see anything wrong with this, in fact I could subscribe to it. If I couldn't really be bothered to improve any more, the last thing I'd want would be a ski that made me feel uncomfortable, even if it were trying to get me to make better movements.
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slikedges, Exactly!
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T Bar, In a performance ski, your turn feels great when you get it right, and bl**dy aweful if you get it wrong. They hate to be pushed around and object. eg: on occasion they just don't start to turn at all, becuase you haven't made the right moves. If you don't stay well balanced and use correct technique they're incredibly tiring too.
What can I say, you have to feel it. But these skis (on and off piste) are for technical skiers, so until you get to that point, maybe there isn't any point, if you get my meaning?
falling frequently in powder is normally caused by trying to rotate the skis or push the heels sideways or rotate the upper body to turn. The ski then gets stuck against the snow, it's momentum stops and yours continues. This forcing the skis is generally caused by anxiety as the ski turns slower in deep snow, the inexperienced/untaught skier fears that it won't turn and tries to force the issue. Result - cold shower! Of course frequent falling can also be caused by just poor technique. (I'm not suggesting that you have poor technique BTW)
slikedges, Once again, you're convinced you can't find decent rental skis - why? Most peeps arrive in resort around late afternoon, too late to go skiing, but with shops, in the main, open until 19.30 or so there's plenty of time to trawl around and find a good shop with good stock and rent what you want. You also get to know the village this way, find out where things are etc. Never wasted time. I don't think LDA is unusual - there are many, many shops - all of them have different stock, but all of them do have really good skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, it's still a bit of hassle and that's only part of the problem. I still think it's nice to have a pair already that suits you, that you like and that you are familiar with, to get the most out of your time on snow.
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slikedges, But part of the problem is that if you improve your skiing you'll grow out of a pair of skis. We were recommending that you "overski" yourself a bit when buying (if buying) so that you "grow into" your skis, thus you can ski them for longer. None of us are at the point of not being able to improve more. too much comfort is a bad thing! (Oh dear, does that mean I'll have to buy other than Fischers next time???)
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FAQ
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