 Poster: A snowHead
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jacksonhole, not really, me neither, and no. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Latchigo, thanks. I must mention that my "year out" was self-financed to a large extent by my writing about the trip. I have been freelance since 1982, and I simply decided I was going to do it. I told the Financial Times, my then principal employer, that I was doing it and they could either feature it or not, but I was going to do it come what may. Luckily for me, they took up the challenge and ran my features about the trip every Saturday for 52 weeks. All the money they paid me went toward the cost of the trip. As for presenting myself here on behalf of ski and board, I have a passionate interest in the magazine and people's opinion of it!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's his passion fruit
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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No, David, it's my passion, fruit
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That's what I meant. It's the fruit of your passion.
A Japanese flautist was once misheard: "The fruit is my passion".
"And my favourite opera is Mozart's 'The Magic Fruit' ".
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, the Japanese ranguage is flaught with problems. Are we allowed to be sirry on this site David?
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| jacksonhole wrote: |
| Yes, the Japanese ranguage is flaught with problems. Are we allowed to be sirry on this site David? |
You can call the blokes "sir" of course. Quite goes to our heads, though. Also, sometimes a tad difficult who is a bloke and who's female.
And then there's easiski. Definitely a female, but she'll eat you alive if you say should use pink skis. 
Still. I'm beginning to ramble. It's an age thing.
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jacksonhole, as an infrequent poster over here, good to see you, and I like the nom de plume. I like the mag a lot but I really need snow fixes from March>September, when S&B isn't around. (? not much point for advertisers then I guess?). What should I do?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, do you think there should be a summer mag as well? What would go in it, glacier skiing, South America, New Zealand etc?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| parlor wrote: |
David Murdoch, Freeze has been dead for over a year...
The best way to get Dark Summer is subsribe at their website. The magazine is actually free but can be hard to find, for a few quid you can have it delivered. |
Hi all,
We also provide a complete PDF download of the magazine on our website. I appreciate how difficult it can be to find ski magazines in the stores (and with Dark Summer being free it flies out of the stores very quickly).
This year we are looking to redress the balance of Dark Summer slightly. As we wanted to fill the gap and be a magazine for the more intermediate/advanced freeskiers with a definite UK slant, we fell into the trap of covering the most prominent form of tfreeskiing in the UK (freestyle). This year we are looking at more freeride/backdountry-oriented articles and brining it further in line with our original vision.
As we always have been, we are open to suggestions on what people would like to see in Dark Summer (after all we are there for you) and this thread has made a great read for me.
Thanks
Zack
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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does anyone know when we can expect the first edition of this seasons fall-line and, dare I say it, Daily mail ski mag.
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Edmundh009, if you ask Martin Bell he might be able to tell you about the DMSS mag (surprised it isn't out yet - it used to be mid August was the first one)
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You know it makes sense.
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DarkSummer,
The main problem I guess you've got Zack is that really great freeride/ backcountry photography is a lot harder to come by than freestyle. Still I appreciate what you've been doing, I've always been a fan of the mag since the pilot issue and look forward to seeing the new content. Presumably issue 1 will have the Weapon of Choice ski review again?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It sure will. We will be incresing the size of the ski test a little this year as we should have more space in the mag.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, jolly nice of you to share all your magazine plans with us! Not that I would exploit the info of course!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have it on very good authority, today, from a pristine source, that Ski & Board magazine has just gone to the printers.
Is any other British ski magazine out yet?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jacksonhole wrote: |
| fatbob, jolly nice of you to share all your magazine plans with us! Not that I would exploit the info of course! |
Not sure I've shared anything other than the fact I've never purchased Ski & Board. I've never purchased the Good ski & snowboarding magazine or whatever its called either if you want to exploit that 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In that case there's a fair chance you've never bought Ski Land magazine.
It's really cute.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Here is some more ABC data, extracted from their website:
Daily Mail Ski and Snowboard: circulation includes 9,487 newstand sales, plus 3094 subscriptions
Ski and Board: circulation includes 18,499 SCGB member copies, plus 2,066 newstand sales
Can't find data for Snow.
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So, what this tells us is that the two most popular news stand titles actually sell only 11,500 copies per month combined. That's pretty underwhelming in a UK market that's reported to be somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 million heads (depending on who you listen to). The substance simply isn't there - too much paid-for editorial and too many "what I did on my freebie press trip" articles.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| .......... too many "what I did on my freebie press trip" articles. |
FWIW, I paid in full for the holiday I wrote about in S&B. But I did write as a member, not as a journalist.
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Bode Swiller, I like your sobriquet and your location, but all our paid-for features are clearly marked as advertorials or promotions. They are not editorials.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Bode Swiller, I've certainly enjoyed the hospitality of tour operators and ski resorts in the past (with all skiing paid for in the past few years) so there's no high horse for me on this one.
If it's your impression that the sales slump of British ski magazines is because of excessive advertorial/promotional content, then the question is what can or should be done to reverse this?
I suspect (without any data) that the advertising currents are flowing towards 'new media' at the present time, with print publishing feeling the pinch. The temptation in that context may be to finance ski magazines with more advertorial ... but - as you imply - if this alienates readers then the sales slump is not reversed. Readers just find other stuff they'd rather read and trust.
I personally don't think that print is dead, but that some radical thinking is needed right now. There are one or two seemingly obvious pistes of thought that could be productive, which would definitely advance the heritage of print journalism.
In reality one assumes that the highest-circulation ski publications in the UK are actually tour operator brochures and retailer catalogues. But we also have a significant rise of free ski magazines, which enjoy placement in locations where skiers naturally congregate (shops, shows etc).
That said, this doesn't necessarily mean that the public are just trying to get something for nothing. I've always believed that it's best not to underestimate the intelligence of skiers - you don't get to afford these expensive holidays unless you're a reasonably literate and critical type of person. And that kind of person is used to buying information, entertainment and stimulation.
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jacksonhole,
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all our paid-for features are clearly marked as advertorials or promotions. They are not editorials.
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Trouble is that it looks like genuine editorial until you happen upon the smallish "advertorial promotion" (or whatever you care to call it). I don't mind advertorial provided there's a small amount and it's obvious (go look at the big car mags). IMO Ski&Board and Daily Mail have way way way too much given their thin-ness, and the market will decide if they live or die as a result. Actually the resorts that pay for this type of promo activity are guilty of treating us consumers as idiots... when you start reading an "article" that only glows about some resort you've barely heard of, and then you realise it's actually a promo, are you likely to ever consider it as a destination? It would be interesting to know how much (if any) response this approach generates. I'm just off for another pint of sobriquet.
David Goldsmith, Print isn't dead... but paid-for ski magazines will be unless they overhaul their tired formats and react to the freebies that seem to have benefitted from their complacency.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I actually bought Snowboard UK yesterday as there is a bit of a drought on the ski mag front. There is a great article on the Glacier Express in switzerland which I must say is written very well. There is mention of the orange brits 06. However there is a blog on Womens snowboard gear which is of very little use to me  . I do think it was a little over priced at £3.80 though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
jacksonhole,
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all our paid-for features are clearly marked as advertorials or promotions. They are not editorials.
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Trouble is that it looks like genuine editorial until you happen upon the smallish "advertorial promotion" (or whatever you care to call it). ......... |
Might be useful if you wrote from experience, rather than having to rely on expressions such as "whatever you care to call it". I have just grabbed the nearest copy of S&B I have to hand, opened it randomly, flicked through a couple of pages and seen "advertorial" in large font, clear contrast between font and background, on the top RH of page 93 Dec 05 issue of S&B.
The editor has had the balls to appear in the forum, and give considered replies to comments here. By all means disagree with him, but do have the courtesy to make sure your complaints are valid for his magazine, before making them.
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He has also had the balls to father some loving daughters.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, I thought this was a conversational-style forum, not a convention for forensic scientists. So, the word "advertorial" appears on page 93. What about on the following pages? Roughly 50% of readers flick from the back. A club magazine simply doesn't need paid-for editorial (I know the editor doesn't like the phrase but that's what it is). Nobody relies on it once they've sussed that the resort paid for it to be there so why bother at all? My complaints are very valid if I've shelled out £3.50 only to discover that only 75% of the mag is actually objective. And I don't get why it takes balls to appear on a forum - people seem to use it as an opportunity to punt whatever they're selling.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's true. We also seem to admit contributors without balls.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Oh boy, this is just like the ski club forum. What fun! I am once again indebted to Achilles for his support. I have only met him twice but he is like Solomon - or should that be Salomon - personified. Very fair, intelligent and a good man to have on your side. Bode Swiller, I know where you are coming from, but it is very strict policy that any "articles" paid for (and therefore often controlled by) resorts are clearly marked as advertorials - throughout the article, at least once on every spread. Personally I agree with you about their content in many cases. If they are riddled with brochure-speak (and some are) then they are unlely to be taken seriously by intelligent readers. The more intelligent resorts realise this and let the advertorial writers write realistic reports which are not full of ridiculously purple prose. The less smart ones just see it as an opportunity to try to make their resorts sound like the best thing in the known universe, when it is transparently obvious that they are not
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Personally I blame John Hill.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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who he?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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jacksonhole,
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Personally I agree with you
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Now that doesn't happen very often.
You're the Editor so just ban advertorials. Simple really. I realise there's revenue attached to them but you'd be doing resorts a favour if the only way into the mag was via adverts - currently you're allowing them to do something that delivers them absolutely nothing and ruins your mag to boot. You would be free to use that space to say what you really thought of the place and folks like me might actually feel like shelling out £3.50 (or whatever the price is - stuck that foggyness in for Achilles' benefit).
I think the really interesting thing though is that no UK ski/snowboard mag has cracked the web. There simply isn't a good magazine site out there. Magazines in other areas of consumer publishing have gone majorly or completely online already and someone needs to be ballsy enough to do the same in wintersport. I'm told that for each magazine sold in a niche sport like skiing, that another 10 get binned by the distributor! That's monstrous even if they are pulped and turned into loo paper.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How do you turn ski magazines into bog rolls, and what colour are they? [technical question]
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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On a more serious note, I agree with Swiller's points about advertorial, in the sense that they should be in a distinct typography and page design, so as not to be confused with regular editorial. That's if the advertorial has to be there for the moment.
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I would love to have no advertorials in the magazine. Unfortunately they do contribute significantly - possibly critically - to revenue and the survival of the magazine. I can't just ditch them. We have to live with them in the real world.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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or there's the more modern...
Row, row, row the boat
gently down the stream
if you see some advertorial
don't forget to scream
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
or there's the more modern...
Row, row, row the boat
gently down the stream
if you see some advertorial
don't forget to scream |
More modern. Less substantial 
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FAQ
