 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been talking to my friend Jutta (her with the ski shop) about skis being available for testing etc in shorter lengths. She says that although the manufacturers do make many models in short(ish) lengths they're never available for testing, because they don't believe there's a market. I've long been moaning the fact that I can't try out skis like the Seth or the Public Enemy - not because they're not made in a suitable length, but because they're never available to try in those lengths.
Now - I'm not particularly small (1.65m) and I guess I'm a pretty strong skier compared to many women/small men. However many of the other decent women skiers I know have the same problem, and you end up almost having to guess if you're going to like the ski before shelling out £4-500!! If you're shorter than normal (ie: Linds or Helen Beaumont), where do you go to try skis???
Do any of the retail types on here have any answers other than that it's not economical? How about a women's ski shop carrying all the models including proper performance ones? Would it fly? Would the major manufacturers go for it? What do you think.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, I'm hardly short either at 168, but I had problems finding decent stuff to try last winter, especially in France (St Anton was better). WHat gets me is that it isn't even just women that have the problem - many men I would think could find 170 as a minimum testing length in a slalom ski too long. Surely it makes no sense for the manufacturers to have only long lengths available for testing - I'm sure many folks want to try before they buy and testing something that's too long can't give a good impression of the ski so surely it's counter-productive? Or are they working on some skewed psychology that says skiing isn't a cheap sport so it's mostly high fliers involved and they tend to be tall men in top managerial positions because, of course, tall men make better leaders than anyone else? Cynical, moi? 'Fraid I have no answers but I can't think it's actually economical to cater only to the tallest 10% of the population
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, There is a similar problem if you want race equipment, it is very hard to try out skis before ordering them.
Manufacturers could start by having more skis at their test days. Maybe make use of the web to find out in advance what people want to try.
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easiski, when I rented skis in the past, I nearly always (except in Canada) ended up with a beginners ski. When I bought my exisiting ones, I did try to demo some others, but there was nothing else to try. Strangely there seems to be a lot of my current skis in the rental shops in shorter lengths, but not a lot else.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here's another question for the retail types - sorry if it's bleedin' obvious... Do you work on the basis of having a wide range of models with maybe one or two test lengths in each, or a narrower range of models with every size for test in each?
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I'm working part time over in NZ this winter, running the demo for a local shop. we try to have a full size range in most of the skis we stock.
especially womens as its such a large part of the market. Most larger ski shops and chain retailers should carry a complete range of demo skis
Ellis Brigham in the UK run a demo program at three of their indoor slope outlets too, pretty sure they carry a comprehensive demo range.
Its a bit like boots though if your a small store you just dont buy the smaller or larger sizes because you end up having to try to shift them
at the end of the winter or the following season discounted (not ideal)
Bottom line is most shops have the opertunity to by demo ski at a good price from the supplier so they should really take full advantage
of this and offer a complete range of demo skis.
When hiring skis its always worth booking the ski you want in advance directly with the store, cuts out any drama's
Laters
Chris
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easiski
now you have one of the reasons I ski on stocklis...
back home in Oz the Stockli shop lets me demo the skis I want to try (slalom race skis) in the length(s) I want to ski....
add that to I love the feel of the skis... (well something to do with having skied on them more than half my skiing life may contribute)...
I find it quite difficult to acces the TYPE of skis I want for demo at all otherwise let alone in teh lengths I like to ski them in...
Like you I don't want a WOMENS ski - I want a slalom race ski... and I am 160cm tall so I do not really want long...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skierchris, I onvce bought skis without trying them and oh boy - what a mistake - never again.
It's not, after all, a question of whether you can ski on the skis, but whether they suit you. Powerful skiers dominate a ski to the extent that often it doesn't matter what they ski on. Us less powerful skiers require a ski that suits us. You're new to the forum (welcome BTW), so you won't know that I ski on Fischer WC SCs which I think are the best skis I've ever had. However they'll need replacing soon (2 seasons already= 60 weeks give or take), and rather than just replace them I'd like to try lots of skis before forking out all that money. (Even with a Bon Moniteur they're not cheap).
Then there's the question of off piste skis. I love my Zags (Le Rouge), but the third new pair (FOC) in one season? I have to think about something else to replace them eventually. Hence tying the Demon Flame. I'm sorry, I can't be sure that a 164 would be right when a 170 felt heavy clumsy and tiring (albeit good on piste). Then there's the question (for me, but not the others mentioned here) of clients asking advice. How can I advise people when I haven't tried the skis? Or if I've tried the wrong length for me?
Sorry - you have to try before you buy, and I still want to know WHY when the skis are made in shorter lengths, they're not available to try.
I shall be trying to persuade the Distributors to bring shorter lengths to the Mondial du Ski, but I'm only one lone voice ..... 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
only one lone voice .....
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easiski, Is it worth some of us also trying to contact the distributors?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Linds, What I might try to do is to get all of you who ar interested to sign a letter, but there are loads of other women and small men who I can't get to .... Us 4 are not many are we? Could we get David Murdoch and Sophie involved? That would make 6 - still not many...
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easiski, Linds, I think admin may be able to do something,at least ask for us, but only the Elans. No good pretending my beanpoles are short either. I do think though taht this lack of choice is probably affecting my skiing. They think if your short your happy with rubbish. Now most (but not all, I'd be sterotyping) of the French women I see are quite petite in stature, maybe they would like more interesting skis to test too.
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You know it makes sense.
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Perhaps industry demo's are the only place that you will find what you want, most retailers dont carry race skis beacause most pro's get
them direct anyway. If they were only available through retail then I guess they would have demo's and be happy for the extra business.
I've not been to the Mondial, only the UK SIGB and Fall Line ski mag tests and they don't carry much race as the retailers don't buy it?!
It might be worth contacting a brand direct to see if their reps have test skis available. I know they somtimes do in the UK and NZ.
Laters
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Helen Beaumont, I'm sure you're right. There are a number of female instructors here who don't get much choice either! I am going to phone Admin soon anyway (giving him time to get over Castleford)
skierchris, If you're back from NZ you must absolutely come to the Mondial - great fun, and lots and lots of skis to test (providing you ski 170+)! Seriously, very big event and most of the skis last year were freeride/freestyle so should suit you. Advance weather forecasts say more than average precipitation in October and colder than average .... sounds good...... They did have some detuned race skis - I tried lots, but had to ski 165 on several makes last year, which isn't a fair test, even for the commercially available ones. I'd personally just love to try the real thing though (probably never buy them as too much for teaching on ..)
Our main gripe is that it's widely assumed that all women (and small men) are rubbish skiers and content to ski something squelchier than a B2.  The skis are out there, but we don't get a chance to try them - look at Helen Beaumont, - the poor woman's been skiing on Saphirs! Finnbob is 5' and had been skiing on 150s as the shortest she could get (Salomon yellow Screams) - she bought 142 Volkl Unlimited from Jutta last winter and couldn't believe the difference!!
I just want to try some of the All Mountains or Fatter skis - but 170 is the limit, and in difficult snow, skiing slowly with clients, realistically around 167 is as long as I want. 
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 13-08-06 12:47; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| ook at Helen Beaumont, - the poor woman's been skiing on [i]Saphirs![i] Shocked |
OOH, the shame 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Helen Beaumont, At least you're planning on replacing them now! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yup, I'm a girlie with small feet and an instructor and I like to try what is around so I know exactly where you're coming from easiski.
We have Blues the retailer up here and they organise test nights on dry slopes which are great. The problem is that generally the skis are too big. If they do have a short ski, then the binding adjustment won't go down to my size 4 boots.
The test skis do not belong to Blues but are pooled from Salomon and Rossi (AMG are the UK importers), K2 etc.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Head skis 07
sweet fat thing 121-87-114 156cm
World cup SL 150cm 155cm
World cup GS 173cm
Xrc 1400 (looks amazing) 149cm 156cm
Monster IM 77 156cm 161cm
Monster IM 82 150cm 161cm
Try contacting Matt Humphries at Head UK in Kendal, and find out if, when and where these ski are available. good luck!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski,I'd never even consider myself to be anywhere near as good a skier as you. I too have small feet, 3.5 . All the test skis at Castleford were Ok though.
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I thought this thread was about anger management issues.
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Frosty the Snowman, Go away - you're not small enough! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Put the shin pads on Frosty the Snowman, you've got them angry now 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Oops, I'm going to be in trouble come November.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well I'm nowhere near Easiski's level, in fact I'm really only just getting to the stage where I begin to have some concept of how much I don't know. But I do know that I was pushing some skis beyond their limit last year, and that I felt much happier on some higher level skis like the Burnin Luv. Expert I ain't but it's just a case of finding what suits, regardless of the manufacturer's label - and in the RIGHT LENGTH!!
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eng_ch, Well said!
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You know it makes sense.
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It does seem quite strange that an oversized, less than average skier like myself can walk in just about any shop in the alps and find a choice of suitable skis yet very serious skiers like a lot of you in this thread struggle to find even 1 suitable pair to use. Surely the ski manufacturers will sell more pairs to yourselves than to the likes of me?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Passing thought here.... would it be worth a thread on Equipment along the lines of "What I would have tried had it been available"? THen maybe that would give an idea of what peeps at PSB might be looking at and maybe you could pass the list to Jutta, Charlotte? Feel free to tell me it's a crap idea...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eng_ch, You beat me to it - but it'll be an email to all PSBers! Actually I think I'll start one anyway, if you haven't already!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Funnily enough, as a powerful skier, who needs a longer ski, I often find that shops only have demo skis in sizes which are too short for me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| easiski wrote: |
| eng_ch, You beat me to it - but it'll be an email to all PSBers! Actually I think I'll start one anyway, if you haven't already! |
Sorry, RL caught up with me.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, Not being faecitious here, but can you explain powerful skier and need for a longer ski. I ask because when my local hire shop lend me ski's they are always longer than I expect and the explaination is a simple, "thats what you need".
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boredsurfin, I have found many local hire shops have limited understanding of "what you need"...
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boredsurfin, Mr Eng is 6' 4" and some of the maximum lengths in various models only come to his chin. I know received wisdom atm seems to be that long lengths are only needed by heavier people, but surely all these longshanks exert more leverage on a ski which has the same efefct as weight?
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eng_ch, yep I've never met Kramer but ...........
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As mentioned previously it might be worth contacting (petition) the ski manufacturers stating that a lot of people are detered from buying your top end skis, because they are unable to demo the smaller sizes (150-165). Also if you meet any reps at a demo sessions it is worth mentioning to them that you would be interested in buying their top end skis but they don't have the right size to demo, so you are considering buying another manufacturers skis instead. Gaining sales is always a good incentive for manufacturers to demo.
I am a short person 165cm and I find that the smaller skis I've tried (demo) apart from the race sl skis are designed for juniors or petite women (very slim). While I (athletic 11.5-12st male) tend to overpower these skis through muscle strength so end up having to try >=170, which isn't ideal. And would love to be able to try as many top end skis as possible in the appropriate size before I buy.
If you are going to email or petition you can put my name on it if you want.
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FAQ
), not serious 
They tell me about, but never invite me on their serious ski afternoons (an ex Brit FIS skier fights shy of joining them as well) 