 Poster: A snowHead
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Looking at squeezing in a small tour before breakfast whilst we're away and wondering if returning via in-resort piste is going to be an issue at 0700ish... Specifically looking at departing Courchevel 1550 up through the forest to the altiport, then returning down on piste via Cospillot (Courch 1850 peripheral motorway) and Proveres (between 1850 and 1550).
I know the real answer is to ask at patrol HQ, but was wondering if anyone had any views on this - is it even worth planning this out at all? Are my efforts best used seeking out an alternative early morning jaunt?
Many thanks!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 22-11-24 15:40; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Depends what happens with early morning grooming and avy control. No one would be particularly happy with you if you were spotted on a piste that was scheduled for a groom nor if you were in a potential run off zone for a bomb/gasex route.
Sounds like you'd be pretty low level - best to consult at patrol for the official answer on out of hours touring. They will be able to advise on permitted routes (as some locals will do this) and will be happier you've asked.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Depends what happens with early morning grooming and avy control. No one would be particularly happy with you if you were spotted on a piste that was scheduled for a groom nor if you were in a potential run off zone for a bomb/gasex route.
Sounds like you'd be pretty low level - best to consult at patrol for the official answer on out of hours touring. They will be able to advise on permitted routes (as some locals will do this) and will be happier you've asked. |
Yeah these were my thoughts, as long as the grooming is done I stand a chance of being allowed - and those pistes are probably not groomed last thing due to the risk of people being around in the morning (on foot or otherwise)...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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On the often repeated TV series about Val Thorens and its mountain rescue/medical centre, there’s a British female seasonaire (and racer) who climbs up the mountain just before sunrise and bombs down a perfectly groomed piste before lifts open.
No patrol or officials about, she just does it.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 23-11-24 15:20; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Thomasski, after nightly snowfall, an extra round of grooming sometimes is done, just before opening of the lifts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| @Thomasski, after nightly snowfall, an extra round of grooming sometimes is done, just before opening of the lifts. |
Noted, so it's definitely a case of ask at the beginning of the week and possibly the evening before a jaunt.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
On the often repeated TV series about Val Thorens and its mountain rescue/medical centre, there’s a British female seasonaire (and racer) climbs up the mountain just before sunrise and bombs down a perfectly groomed piste before lifts open.
No patrol or officials about, she just does it. |
I bet she's got an well-earned understanding, she might even be on the patrol schedule distribution list. I don't think I'm going to be invited into the inner circle within 6 days!
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I can confirm it's a great thing to do! I was lucky enough to sign up for an "early morning with a pisteur" session, organised by the authorities in Les Saisies. It was a bluebird morning with no wind. We went up a chair running early for the purpose and bombed around all the pistes in "his" sector. Checking the pisteing was OK, not awkward ledges, or bare patches, no knocked down piste markets, etc. Then had coffee and cake with the rest of the team and the other 3 or 4 lucky tourists in their HQ at the top of the lift (having been shown their kit, including the special sledges used for off piste rescues).
Fascinating, and impressive. An admirable young man, he was. We had some good conversations one to one on the lifts but as soon as they were all in a big gang with the coffee and cake (and their female team leader) I couldn't understand more than 5% of the chat!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Thomasski, I wouldn't ask, most resorts probably have some blanket rule about not using the pistes outside of opening hours (Tignes forbids you skiing down from 1800 to Les Brevieres after closing but everyone does it). Just be cautious of any piste bashers about, only do it in good visibilty and make sure that your insurance covers you
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| Origen wrote: |
| I can confirm it's a great thing to do! I was lucky enough to sign up for an "early morning with a pisteur" session, organised by the authorities in Les Saisies. |
Sounds like a nice experience! I wouldn't mind a tagalong one day!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've been doing it on a regular basis for nigh on 11 years, both prior to the lifts officially opening for the season and early morning during the season often with a dog.
However, the last couple of years I really, if I see pisteurs, or dameuses working go out of my way to stick to the side of the piste or even right off it, to acknowledge that I recognise that they are working, this is now more obvious to do as they are now using cables on the vast majority of pistes now with a gradient.
Out of season they also recognise (I think) that people skinning up first thing are often locals as the tourists have yet to arrive, plus over the years I do know more of them, and they like the fact I have a dog it seems as they often stop for a chat, though I think I'm going to be given a telling off 
But the ways things are forever changing, I would not be surprised to find out that new laws have been introduced, though there's nothing to stop you going up the Access chemins to get to offpiste.
This is all mildly ironic as this will be the first season that we'll not be doing it as we're still in the UK for one reason or another and snow pack is not that great compared to previous years.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Working as the accountant at the Ronnie, Meribel, I used to ski down to Meribel Centre regularly to be at the bank for 8.30am.
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| rambotion wrote: |
| @Thomasski, I wouldn't ask, most resorts probably have some blanket rule about not using the pistes outside of opening hours (Tignes forbids you skiing down from 1800 to Les Brevieres after closing but everyone does it). Just be cautious of any piste bashers about, only do it in good visibilty and make sure that your insurance covers you |
I think that is a very good point about insurance.
I would always ask though. I was the SCGB rep in Les Arcs where they held the speed skiing as a demonstration event in 1992. On the final day a red piste was closed to the public early on so the racers could go out and warm up. Tragically one racer went over a brow and straight into a piste machine which should not have been there and died as a result. Ironically there was only one significant crash in the four days of the event. The racer was helicoptered off but I think he was OK.
I know that was a unique situation however it does show, that even with planning things can go wrong.
Coming back to insurance, I doubt most insurers will cover you for skiing down a closed piste. There have been plenty of people who have wrecked a knee for example in a quite innocuous fall. A long hospital stay could be expensive and I could see an insurance company using that sort of situation as a reason not to pay out.
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You know it makes sense.
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Rule 8: Respect for signs and markings. A skier or snowboarder must respect all signs and markings.
If a piste is closed, it's closed for a reason! Failure to follow Rule 8 will absolutely invalidate your insurance. Bizarrely, as long as you have off-piste cover and are skiing off-piste, you'll be fine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I do it all the time, nice sunrise skin up a groomer. Great way to start the day. Just have a chat with patrol to make sure there’s no winch cats or control work happening.
Don’t have such a thing as ski insurance where I am, I can f@ck myself up as stupidly and creatively as I like and the government picks up the bill.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@hang11, yebbut, you are in your home country. We would be the same skiing in Scotland
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We have some pistes that are allocated as open for skimo until 10pm and then 7-9am. The pisteurs just don’t work those pistes during those times. Annoyingly a 7am start is too late for me to get to work on time.
Are there any like this around Courcheval?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| hammerite wrote: |
We have some pistes that are allocated as open for skimo until 10pm and then 7-9am. The pisteurs just don’t work those pistes during those times. Annoyingly a 7am start is too late for me to get to work on time.
Are there any like this around Courcheval? |
Not sure to be honest! Read conflicting information about the hiking/touring tracks in the forest being open for use 24h, there are 'approved' itineraries as well but these are a lot longer. It's a bit of a muddy topic on the official websites, I think there's some way to go before this information is actually accessible and useable...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| hang11 wrote: |
I do it all the time, nice sunrise skin up a groomer. Great way to start the day. Just have a chat with patrol to make sure there’s no winch cats or control work happening.
Don’t have such a thing as ski insurance where I am, I can f@ck myself up as stupidly and creatively as I like and the government picks up the bill. |
We had a kiwi bloke killed off-piste once in Tignes. NZ government paid for jack s**t.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Kenzie wrote: |
| hang11 wrote: |
I do it all the time, nice sunrise skin up a groomer. Great way to start the day. Just have a chat with patrol to make sure there’s no winch cats or control work happening.
Don’t have such a thing as ski insurance where I am, I can f@ck myself up as stupidly and creatively as I like and the government picks up the bill. |
We had a kiwi bloke killed off-piste once in Tignes. NZ government paid for jack s**t. |
Probably because he wasn’t in Nz.
If you’re in Nz (kiwi or otherwise) any kind of rescue or medical costs as a result of the incident are covered.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| Kenzie wrote: |
| hang11 wrote: |
I do it all the time, nice sunrise skin up a groomer. Great way to start the day. Just have a chat with patrol to make sure there’s no winch cats or control work happening.
Don’t have such a thing as ski insurance where I am, I can f@ck myself up as stupidly and creatively as I like and the government picks up the bill. |
We had a kiwi bloke killed off-piste once in Tignes. NZ government paid for jack s**t. |
Probably because he wasn’t in Nz.
If you’re in Nz (kiwi or otherwise) any kind of rescue or medical costs as a result of the incident are covered. |
Good to know for anyone visiting New Zealand. Not so good for kiwis abroad.
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@Thomasski, a few other things to think about.
Will you have a regular lift pass, or are you touring only? Some resorts don't let anyone without a pass use regular downhill (is non-cross-country) pistes.
If it has been snowing overnight bashing can continue right up to piste opening. Particularly on pistes close to resort and more likely to used by the less experienced.
I can't remember where the piste basher garages are in Couchevel 1850 / 1550. But pistes leading there can be busy at the time you are thinking of.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
@Thomasski, a few other things to think about.
Will you have a regular lift pass, or are you touring only? Some resorts don't let anyone without a pass use regular downhill (is non-cross-country) pistes.
If it has been snowing overnight bashing can continue right up to piste opening. Particularly on pistes close to resort and more likely to used by the less experienced.
I can't remember where the piste basher garages are in Couchevel 1850 / 1550. But pistes leading there can be busy at the time you are thinking of. |
I'll definitely have a pass, if I was just touring then Courchevel wouldn't be the ideal destination. This is just for a few mornings during the week where I can have some nice chilled quiet time!
I think the whole groomer/piste issue will have to be resolved with a chat - if they allow me at all!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes, by hiking up. I think maybe in some weird spots where there is an upper parking lot that gives you access with no lift I may have done this long ago.
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@Thomasski, another obvious point I forgot, in that many resorts now have purpose made ski-tour routes in between the pistes often through the forest and on trails etc - designed for skiers who want to skin-up in relative safety etc. For instance in Serre Che valley we have four!
And a quick Google on Courchevel 
Though I have not read it
https://www.skipasscourchevel.com/ski-randonnee
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I got on the gondola at 8am in Courchevel 1650 in March 2023. The lift staff spotted me, stopped it and kicked me off. I didn’t know but it didn’t start until 9am and was just running supplies up the mountain.
I’ve heard stories about closed pistes being used and starting avalanches on to lower pistes so wouldn’t really ski a closed area unless it was normal local practise.
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