How much independence to give older children when skiing?

A snowHead

I'm looking for views from people about skiing with older children who want a bit more independence.

My son is 11 years old and can ski red runs comfortably (the French variety) in most conditions although he doesn't enjoy zero visibility and variable snow combined. He's still a long way from going faster than me although I'm told he'll likely catch up sooner than I expect.

My current approach to skiing with him is to stay above him and within about 100m or so while keeping him in sight pretty much the whole time. He likes being independent but I have been resisting letting him out of sight because he seems too young.

We are going skiing as a pair at half term and also with another family (including a couple of his friends of a similar age) at Easter. On the Easter trip he would love to go off with the other kids but again this sounds too risky to me.

I'd welcome any views and any practical tips to letting him be a bit more independent but also keeping him safe please.

A snowHead

To me it would depend on the size and conditions in the resort and the common sense of the other children. I would certainly let them do the odd run or tow on their own if they tell you which ones but possibly not let them away for a couple of hours at a time at that age in a big resort.

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@T Bar, Thanks, he's pretty sensible but he's still a kid and will push it a bit if he gets overconfident. The Easter trip is at Serre Chevalier so I'd personally count that as a big resort. I'll research any runs or small areas that might suit.

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I think at that age the most we let them do on their own was laps of one run while we sat in a cafe part way down the run. And they had 2 way radios on them. Maybe radios are a bit outdated now, but at 11 years old about 15 years ago, they didn't have phones. They had been skiing since they were 5, so perfectly capable

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@karin, Thanks, it seems like lapping a run is where we'll end up. The reason I'm asking this is that we had a couple of hours at MK Snozone on Saturday and the two of them really enjoyed looping the slope independently of the adults. I'll make sure he has his phone on him or possibly look into short-range radios.

I think to start with I'll loop the same run too so I can keep an eye on them a bit.

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Everyone will have their own opinion but for what it's worth I don't let my 11 and 13 year old ski on their own. I think they would both be too immature to manage navigating around the mountain. I can't see us loosening the rein too much in the next year or two either.

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11 is the age when a lot of children will start walking to school by themselves which in some ways this is similar.

Get one of them to share their location with you on google maps, this can be left on for the whole week. Tell the other to keep their phone on them but turned off to ensure that they have battery in case they need it. Restrict their unsupervised skiing to cloudless days (much easier to hurt yourself, get lost, or go off piste accidently in poor visibility). Discuss at length what to do if one has an accident (stay together, attract attention, call you)

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@Henwc, Nice spot , a decent size ski area but providing they stick to pistes the worst place they can end up is in the valley floor . We used to go there a lot at Easter I guess the main thing for them to be aware of is that conditions at that time of year can change dramatically over the course of an hour or so as the sun hits the pistes and what may have been a nice run an hour previously can be a mess later.

@rambotion, turning phone off? assumes they won't get split up

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I use to go on my own with my 2 children, they were 7 and 4 when they first went. They now 19 and 16.....

To give them independence I used to do the 'mountain hut for a coffee' one and it worked well. Also, pick a chair lift that has a limited number of runs off it and where it doesn't go over to other valleys etc

I'd still be nervous even now about my youngest going off on her own...... kids tend not to read piste maps and let their parents do it! Maybe that is another step to independence

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Just lapping a single lift or a defined number of runs sounds fine. I guess I'd make it clear that this is conditional on showing up at the right time at the right place and should anything be a problem like "accidentally" taking a different run elsewhere or losing the other means they need to immediately text/call. Oh and NO offpiste. Wouldn't want to be a buzzkill but so many things can go wrong if a young kid thinks they have free agency to interpret what "just off the side" means. Usually it will mean something like they get to experience what a PITA losing a ski is but there can obviously be worse consequences not limited to navigation, rocks, terrain traps and hazards from above.

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I have two kids of 17 & 19. Both me and the wife's parents were pretty relaxed when we were kids and we are the same. Let them play out at a youngish age (~8 from my sketchy memory), left them home alone at a youngish age (~12 ditto). Anyway you get the idea. However, apart from lapping a lift we wouldn't have let them ski alone until a couple of years ago. TBH, it's never really been a factor for us as we ski as a family and we can all ski the same terrain. And we just all have to wait if someone is a bit slower. I think under different circumstances - if some reason me and the wife couldn't/didn't want to ski - I think at 13/14 I would have let them out alone. 11/12 is pushing it.

When our kids were 8 & 6 they used to lap a few runs and a mini park whilst we sat in a restaurant. By 11 my son was taking himself to and from lessons on his own, my wife would just drop him at the lift station. This would involve 5 lifts and 6 runs each way and takes about an hour. He's now 14 and for the last couple of years at school they're allowed to ski on their own, as long as they are in groups of at least 3 kids. But normally they ski with me, as that's just what they prefer, although they are constantly disappearing off and meeting me at the bottom/lift.

You know it makes sense.

Our friendly in-house expert on all things child-rearing will be doubt be along shortly to give us the benefit of her wisdom. And lots of stories about how she left the kids completely to their own devices at a very young age. No doubt including one of them being allowed to finish ski school and make his own way home, despite any decent ski school being precluded from releasing a child from their care until in the company of a responsible adult. And how anyone who does not do the same is a terrible parent.

As others have said lapping of well know lifts and runs is a good place to start. If there are a few older kids in the group you might consider letting them range more widely. I was certainly happy for my youngest to ski with his brother and sister when he was 8 and they were 12 and 14. BUT we ski a lot as a family, it was in resorts we had skied multiple times, they knew some of the locals, and the two eldest were very good skiers (both racers). As always with kids there is no right answer (despite what others will try and tell you!). My lot certainly matured at different rates and had (have) different levels of common sense and reliability!

One thing I did do which worked well was include them from a very young age in taking responsibility for the enjoyment and safety of the group. Let them be in charge of choosing where you all ski, and take some responsibility for navigation. Teach them what to do when there is an accident, and let them feel responsible for the safety of others. It stood my lot in good stead and I was surprised on more than one occasion at how well they stepped up and took the right actions without prompting, and how proud they were to have taken responsibility.

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@Henwc,
Could he deal with an accident? If not, keep him reasonably close.

A snowHead

@Henwc, you know your kid best and the others (?) but the greater the number the bigger the risk multiplier

Usual stuff
- if you can let them loose on runs funnel into on place so they cant scatter to the winds. (Did that with my son of same age and one sensible friend)
- give him a phone (with wt app - zello?) /wt or a tracker
Stuff his pockets with
- a laminated contact card
- insurance docs
-GHIC card
-money

Set a finish time and meet point.

Tell them what to do in case of an accident

He’ll be fine.

A snowHead

That's an interesting point actually regarding insurance.

Is there anything in ski travel insurance t&c's about children skiing unaccompanied?

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To me it's akin to the argument about riding a bike to school. Was talking to my son in law about his 14 year old daughter (my granddaughter) who wants to buy herself a little old 19' sailing boat (all her savings, £500!). He was wondering about her sailing alone but I pointed out it was statistically a good deal safer than riding a bike down the local main road (which she does regularly, they are a family of cyclists) especially if she stays "on piste" in the sheltered waters of Chichester Harbour. She's a sensible girl and a good sailor.

Masses depends on the other kids and how sensible they are. And, as suggested, if there is ANY departure from the agreed plan, not turning up at the meeting place, going onto runs which they'd been told not to, instant grounding.

I find it astonishing that some people don't even let 14 and 15 year olds ski without mummy or daddy. They'll be at uni doing sex and drugs in a few years - they need to start to grow up and take responsibility long before then. Twisted Evil

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Thanks All, Great tips.

He's not really ready for being let loose on the whole mountain but I do want to give him a chance to develop a bit of responsibility.

I'm probably going to try out the lapping of a run but in small steps, with me skiing the same run and letting him get a bit further ahead then waiting at the lift, that way I can get any unauthorised off piste or unauthorised "exploring" stamped out before things can go too wrong.

Next trip is Ischgl so I think run 76 under the M1 chairlift on the Samnaun side would be pretty good for this, provided I was very clear on him not to go down onto run 61. Or possibly one of the blues above Idalp like run 8.

He'll want to do it on run 42 under the E5 cable car but I don't think that would be safe so I'll give that a miss I think.

Any other suggestions or for Serre Chevalier?

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My son was 19 when he decided to head off on his own to do the sella Ronda as we were too slow and boring (we were staying in San Cassiano).

He sent me a photo later from the top of Laguzoi saying he might have gone wrong !

He was having a bite to eat and a beer while he worked out where he was !

We think he managed to start following the world war tour signs instead of sella Ronda orange at some point around Pralongia and ended up taxiing up to Laguzoi and doing the hidden valley and horse tow!!

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IMHO depends on the group make up (age + responsibility of other kids).

Then allowing lapping a lift while you are at the cafe (or splitting on an either/or route down and meeting somewhere).

Another thing I would suggest is a good idea is get them used to the concept of navigating early. An 11 year old should IMHO be able to guide your family group to a specific location for lunch/pre-lunch hot chocolate (etc). (Lunch because when it goes wrong you have enough time to get back to accomodation...). The sooner they can reliably do this, the sooner they can have more independance (so that when they take the wrong run etc they can call you with a location and you can arrange somewhere new to meet if necessary)

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11 is a bit too young, but the lapping of a straight forward lift/single piste is a great idea.

When our eldest was about 12 in a resort/mountain we knew extremely well he persuaded us to let him go skiing all mountain for the afternoon with another 12 year old he’d just met in race training. When they got back they revealed they’d gone proper off piste in an area where I knew there were 50’ cliffs.

I regretted that, but didn’t overplay it.

A main reason for skiing with them for years beyond age 11 was still protecting them (admitting post-1970’s omnipresent parenting trait). Countless times I’ve seen 100kg oafs bombing down greens and blues without a care in the world for other slope users. I once witnessed a 20 year wipe out a class of infants with reckless skiing in joining a slope after off piste. I liked to be in the vicinity.

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With the qualification that we go with a multi-family group with anywhere between 4 and 8 kids of roughly similar ages, and in the 3Vs, which they all know like the back of their hand, we let the kids start lapping known pistes from around 11 (Folyeres in La Tania was especially good for this, as there was no chance of a wrong turn, and the dads would be in le Pub Ski Lodge). We've been letting the kids off on their own in the 3Vs since the oldest was 14 provided they kept in their group and looked after each other. Always with phones with location tracking enabled. They once filmed a remake of Apocalypse Snow, which was awesome. Now that they're all 14+ and are better than all the adults, they do what they like (but I do sneak an AirTag into the youngest's pocket).

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@T Bar, he can put in as little or as much as what they want. They're suggestions. Its not huge, insurance can just be the contact details and ins no or just that slip you get for the ski area.

All can go into one zipped pocket only to be opened in dire need.

Oh yes, and a whistle for attracting attention.

A snowHead

Our kids were happy to be released on the Montchavin side of the mountain at La Plagne - we set limits on how far up they could go (nothing beyond Bijolin, i.e. stay on that side of the mountain) and they had a blast - think they would have been 17, 15, 13 & 12. They were confident on the available runs - the worst is a couple of reds that aren't that long, and were closed on this occasion in any case. This was maybe our fourth visit there so they knew the runs well. The boy (15) stayed in the Riders' Nation pretty much all morning and the girls stayed together (which was a condition) on the pistes. They met us any a prearranged lunch spot at more or less the right time. They all had phones with Find My iPhone switched on.

On tracking, I would recommend something like the Slopes app - Apple maps are fine in town, but don't tend to have the pistes and lifts marked, whereas Slopes does. You'll both need to have an account, start tracking and also share your locations, but this worked really well for us. Otherwise it was hard to work out where they were on the standard maps app.

Your approach of lapping sounds like a good one. I would maybe see how he gets on with the other kid(s) on the Easter trip and maybe give him a bit more independence mid-way through? Really depends on the individual kids, the resort, the weather and your risk appetite.

A snowHead

Thanks All for the great advice,

I spoke with him about it over dinner yesterday and he said he's happy with a combination of lapping and me chaperoning (his word not mine) them from higher up. I think that came from me saying that off piste is strictly prohibited if I'm not there.

The good thing with the lapping is that we can start small in good conditions and progress to larger groups of runs within self contained areas.

I do let him navigate when we are together although I step in to avoid any disasters. For example I needed to stop him and his 8 year old friend taking us down Diamant Noir when we were in Flaine last Easter. I suppose letting them do it would have taught them a valuable lesson about reading piste markers but it would have been a day ender.

With this in mind I'll stick to lapping for a couple of years, an advantage of that is that I can wait until he's ok on all marked pistes by the time he's let loose.

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Our youngest (when 12) was skiing with his mates after ski school down a defined, agreed run, lapping back to the lift dipped off the side into the trees on one of those wiggly little bits the instructors love taking them on. Got too low and missed the turn back to the lift and ended up on his own on a closed run back to the resort. No phones then so he made a decision to continue.

Meanwhile the last sighting of him was heading off into the woods somewhere - the other kids weren’t great at being specific. The resort was closing for the day and people being swept off the mountain.

There must have been 50 lift and piste security people combing the woods in the end when he walked into the hotel with a happy smile and no idea of the panic and enormous search operation to locate him.

Thankfully everyone was so grateful he was safe that took priority over other thoughts. The resort staff were so gracious about the whole thing.

It was an horrible experience which mostly went over his head in a ‘what was the panic, I’m fine’ sort of way, and it took a lot for us to loosen the reins again on a subsequent trip.

Mobile phones would make it a lot easier nowadays. Assuming they have battery, signal and the kids actually think to use them when something doesn’t go to plan.

Good luck

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@rickboden, Shocked

what a horrendous experience. Except for him, the little sod! These days it's unlikely that ski school would dismiss a class of kids whilst still up the mountain! My son, aged about 8, was held prisoner by an Austrian ski school. The instructor knew, when they finished the morning class, quite near our apartments, that Nick walked home on to lunch on his own. But one day he asked him to escort one of the littlies (it was a beginner class and most Austrian beginners are much younger) back to the ski school, where they wouldn't let him leave until a parent arrived. Couldn't, or wouldn't, understand him when he kept telling them nobody would arrive! I tore around the resort and eventually found him, very upset. But pleased to see me... Little Angel

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We ski as a family. My almost 13year old wouldn’t want to ski on her own. If she was with other kids, I’d let her with some rules if the conditions were good.

My 12 and 14 year old grand-daughters wouldn't want to ski on their own either. Absolutely not - and their parents are still much better skiers than they are. All mine liked to do their own thing. And because they started as small kids they rapidly became better (or at any rate faster!) skiers than their parents so it was a bit boring just with us.

Kids vary. Some need prompting and help to become more independent, starting with easy steps (not skiing unaccompanied, but maybe getting a bus to meet friends at the shopping centre) others need reining in. The OP raised the question, presumably, because they wanted a range of views. Pointless if we all said the same thing! Blush

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How much independence to give older children when skiing?

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