Father and daughter trip advice

A snowHead

We were planning on an another week in the dolomites at half term, but my wife and son are a bit 'meh' about it so it looks like we are going to abandon this sadly. However my 12 year old daughter is still really keen to go skiing so we are considering a father and daughter 3 day trip somewhere

Therefore 2 questions:

1) Can anyone recommend a resort for this? Big enough for 3 days of skiing, shortish transfer and snow sure. Ideally flying into Geneva with ski in ski out accommodation and not too rowdy. We can go pretty much any weekend in the season.

2) We seem to know A LOT of family, friends, and friends of friends who have had serious ski injuries. Therefore my wife is very concerned about what would happen to our daughter if I was blood wagoned to the nearest hospital. Has anyone got any experience of what would happen to my daughter in this situation so I can reassure my wife (and myself)?

Thanks in advance

A snowHead

1) Avoriaz, Flaine, La Clusaz

2) You can't live your life thinking like that but the ski patrol would be involved and she'd be looked after

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@SnowHounder, your insurance would provide for her, e.g flying out a guardian, flying her home

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How lovely. I’m considering taking my 12 YO too this year for a similar trip. Must admit. Hadn’t even considered your second point Shocked

I would suggest flaine.

We may go to megeve as been to flaine a few times already.

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I think most destinations are big enough for 3 days.
Your sample group of injuries is definitely an outlier, but as @holidayloverxx, says, your insurance will look after you should the unlikely happen.

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After all it is free

I made the mistake of taking my daughter heli skiing for a treat. It doubled my daily cost of heli skiing for a few years until she moved overseas and her lucrative sponsorship agreement with me ended.

Many thanks for all your responses. I am amazed people don't see this as being a "relatively" high risk of happening. In all my ski trips I only recall one time where there hasn't been at least one person on crutches on the flight home. In fact we actually commented on it being unusual the one time it happened. Is this not normal???

Off the top of my head I know of:
2 x ACL
2 x broken femur (one of which helicoptered off the mountain) the other still having difficulties 23 years later
1 x broken pelvis
1 x broken collar bone

And we don't really knock about with many people who ski!

TBF I also know 2 couples in their 70s who have both skied every year for best part of 40 years and never been injured.

I am aware holiday insurance will step in eventually. However I am interested in the immediate hours after an accident. My wife has got images of her daughter standing half way up a mountain on her own watching the helicopter disappear into the distance. So really I am looking for anyone who has had experience of this and how the ski patrol looked after the kids. I know it seems a bit worst case thinking but I am just looking for something to reassure her.

Regarding the resort ideally looking for somewhere not too rowdy. Would Flaine fit the bill for that? We took the kids out of school to Val Thorens a few years back and it was like Magaluf with snow. I have been before and didn't seem too bad so not sure if we just hit on some sort of student week.

Also, just to be clear we have abandoned the dolomites so looking to go somewhere else with a short transfer.

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@SnowHounder, Flying to Salzburg or Innsbruck puts lots of Austrian resorts in rage for a long weekend and with shorter transfers. Zillertal, Alpbach and Ski Amade spring to mind. Flaine is of course a Mountain Resort not a village and can get pretty rowdy as there are comparatively few restaurants and bars.

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@SnowHounder, Thats an unusual sample of injuries! Although that being said, I do have a perception of a much higher incidence of injuries amongst certain demographics. Mostly 30 - 50 year olds, mostly male, mostly towards the end of the week, and mostly one week a year skiers who gave up on ski lessons after a couple of weeks. I have commented before that gender is a factor. One of the most common scenarios when teaching is a couple where the male takes the lead in explaining that his partner is nervous of steeper runs/ice/bumps. The partner almost always turns out to actually be the better skier, and her boyfriend/husband has a level of confidence well beyond level of competence. Most common description of skiing ability is "I can get down anything".

Skiing is not statistically a dangerous sport though, all things being equal (especially skiing within your abilities in terms of terrain and speed) you are very unlikely to be seriously injured.

One simple way to allay your wife's concerns and improve your technique (and therefore also your safety) would be to get a private instructor for the 3 days. This can seem expensive I know, but with the right instructor it is money well spent (although I would say that!). An alternative would be a week where you are both in ski school, perhaps consider Club Med or similar where you will meet other families.

You don't say what your skiing level is, which is also a factor.

Other points are:
1. Ski patrol will always intervene to ensure any minors are looked after. In a blood wagon scenario, assuming your daughter is capable she would accompany you down the mountain. In worst case she would be taken down separately. It is a pretty common scenario for the ski patrol and they are well used to handling it.
2. In most areas there will be other instructors around who will also intervene when an accident happens. And again, both licensed and well used to dealing with children.
3. In my experience most 12 year olds are MUCH more mature in how they handle situations like this than most parents imagine!
4. Make sure that your daughter has a mobile phone. Program the relevant emergency numbers into it, and make sure she knows who to call and what to say. Make sure she has key contact information (your full name, address, holiday accommodation, and insurance details) on her person. Make all of that part of making her feel part of the responsibility for safety on the mountain, which is a good thing to instil in itself but will also give her confidence and pride in you feeling she is mature enough to do so.
5. Most decent insurers use a good specialist for handling emergencies. Again they will be well versed in how to handle this sort of thing.

I understand why the concern arises. Rationally it is such a small risk that you should not be worrying about it, but I get that rationality goes out the window sometimes when your kids are involved! My best advice is to involve your children as much as possible in decision-making (navigating, assessing suitability of pistes etc) and how to handle safety on the mountain (especially what do do when there is accident). Assume they are able to absorb all of that and be a capable part of the team and you likely will be surprised how much they actually are! I remember once stopping as the two kids I was skiing with were no longer right behind me. Looking up the hill I say my 11 year old placing crossed skis above a skier who had fallen and the 13 year old attending to an elderly lady on the snow. They were so very proud of themselves that they knew what to do and were able to intervene effectively. And quite rightly too!

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@zikomo, that all makes total sense to me and I am the worrying sort. If funds permit, I would go the private instructor route. With the right instructor - that is rather crucial - it could be an excellent investment for the longer term as well.

I must be in the minority not worrying about being injured like that. Probably sensible to be prepared. I think someone would look after DD in that instance. Or she would accompany you to whichever hospital you would be obtaining treatment from until your wife could get there.

My 12 YO is pretty sensible tbh.

You know it makes sense.

What is DD?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Dear daughter...mumsnet abbreviation

A snowHead

Sorry. Multiple Forum user here.. Laughing

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@SnowHounderWhile agreeing with the others who report skiing requiring blood wagonning off is rare of the 1000 plus days me and my friends have skied we have had three bloodwagonings off, non requiring an overnight stay.

Oddly one occured to me when I was skiing with my then 12 year old son and an even younger boy we were looking after. My wife was due to come out later in the week. I gave my son the apartment keys and told him to look after the younger one. He did an excellent job and I returned later that evening. If I hadn't I'm sure he would have gone out and either bought himself a pizza or possibly visited a restaurant. It helps that it was in Arc1600 a resort that we all knew well.

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Having had younger child bloodwaggoned off one year it was quite straightforward, I just skied down after them and took the ambulance to the medical centre. Chap in our hotel got knocked out by a skier a few years back whilst with his 9yr old. A member of the rescue team skied down with him and said he could either go in the ambulance or go back to the accommodation, which he decided to do and they walked him back to the hotel and made sure someone in charge at the hotel knew what was going on. When my children were pre teens they always had small laminated cards in their pockets with our mobile numbers (and someone at home), plus the name/address of the accommodation and TO if relevant.

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We have taken our kids skiing for nearly twenty years and if you want to minimise the risk of injury I would pay as much attention when walking around the icy roads in resort as when skiing.

In terms of minimising one's risk of injury whilst skiing you could select a resort with mainly modern chairlifts which are easier to get on and off and ski off peak in an off the beaten track resort where there is less chance of an out of control idiot skiing into your child.

I personally don't think it is worth going skiing for less than a week so I'd go for the first week of the Easter holidays if possible when there will be less ice and quieter slopes. La Rosiere could be a good option. There is a newish club Med there and La Rosiere has an excellent snow record. yes it can get a bit slushy on the south facing slopes in the afternoon at Easter but I've skied west facing slopes in Les Arcs at the same time and they have fared no better, and are sometimes worse as they get more traffic. There are also self catering options for all budgets in La Rosiere. We like Hotel Alparena apartments best which we booked through Peak Retreats. There are also some cheaper apartments called Les Balcons which have access to the Alparena pool.

If you'd rather stick with a three day trip, I'd suggest flying to Turin and going to Montgenevre which has a good snow record and is family orientated.

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I have been looking in to taking a short break with my 9 yo son.

Looking to keep the cost down so travelling outside of school hols - the school will moan and groan but they can live with 2 days off.

Here's the plan so far:

- Collect son after school at 3.30pm on Thursday and scramble to Heathrow for 7.30pm flight to Geneva arriving 10pm ish local time
- Private transfer to the resort (Flaine/Avoriaz) takes 1hr - 1.5hrs
- Ski on Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon and then leave around 5pm on Mon to get a private transfer back to Geneva
- Catch a 9pm ish flight arriving Heathrow arriving 9.30pm local time (due to time difference).
- Son back to school on Tue.

British Airways and Swiss Air each have suitably timed flights.

Sunweb have accom+pass options in Flaine (basic self catering) for £350pp. Or for DIY there are plenty of options on Booking.com or Vrbo.com.

For private transfers I have previously used Action Transfers twice and they were great (met us in the arrival hall and on our way in less than 5 mins) - cost was c. £400 for the return trip (total cost for everyone travelling). Alternatively you could hire a car for much less but I just wasn't massively keen on braving mountain roads late at night with a child on board with the tight transfer timings and having never used snow chains.

As far as which resort, as other have suggested Flaine or Avoriaz are great options for high altitude/snow sure ski-in ski out (or Morzine/Chamonix have a shorter transfer but slightly less convenient access to very good snow). I think we will go with Flaine as its a bit cheaper than Avoriaz + transfer is a bit shorter.

You obviously need somewhere that that do a late check in on the Thursday and you need somewhere to stash your gear while you ski on the Monday...

As far as risk of serious adult injury - I plan to print off a bunch of key info (accom, contact numbers, next of kin, insurance etc) and stick it in the pocket of my sun's ski jacket and give him 'the talk' - what to do if we get separated or if daddy gets injured... he's pretty mature (most of the time).

After all it is free

My mum was bloodwagonned off after breaking her leg on a green in Kaprun in 1996 or so. She broke it in 3 places and required some pins putting in. She was in a lesson at the time. My brother was in a lesson on the same slope and skied past the crossed skis and started staring at her. His instructor told him off saying it was not polite to stare. "But its my mum..."

Whilst I was worried for her, I was also thinking I would get an extra few days on the mountain whilst she was in hospital.... My dad packed us off to family friends and back to school to my disappointment.

+1 Flaine
+1 Avoriaz

On the injury point it's a case of prepare for the worst but don't dwell on it. What other's have said regarding notes, mobiles, 'the talk' etc. is a good idea. I'd also add some emergency cash or a prepayable debit card and an AirTag (or similar tracker) in the ski jacket pocket in case you get separated.

I have been doing 1-1 trips with my son since he was 4. The main thing I do to keep it safe is to ski with him at his slower pace as much as possible and resist the temptation to ski anything vaguely risky if he's in lessons. Obviously you can't rule out someone else causing a crash but there's a lot you can do.

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@SnowHounder, I'd suggest to your wife that it will go broadly like this. If your daughter couldn't travel with you pisteurs would get her safely off the mountain and looked after until they could pass her to other appropriate adults. This may be police or tourist office or a hotel owner. They would probably find someone kind and with kids of their own who spoke English well and ensure she got in contact with your wife etc.

This wouldn't be their first rodeo with an "orphaned" kid so they will have processes. Also she's 12 not 6. My niece would have been well miffed if it was suggested that she couldn't fend for herself in an emergency at that age. Her own phone, a revolut card or similar and enough common sense to tough it out in an extreme and unlikely circumstance would I think suffice. Worst case British Consulate/Embassy would have to send someone (& I mean worst case like you weren't there terminally - sorry to be so cheery)

Under no circumstances should you let fear of an extremely unlikely event get in the way of a very positive experience.

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For another option on the weekend trip with a short transfer to resort:

LGW to Turin, then transfer to Via Lattea (Sauze d’Oulx, Sestriere or Montgenevre). Sauze is about an hour, the other two an extra 15-20 mins or so. Flights out are very early morning and all being well you can be in resort by 11am. Get a good afternoon of it, full day Saturday and Sunday, and there’s a 20.15 flight back home on the Sunday night. Book with BA and they allow skis to be taken as normal luggage.

Someone needs to persuade @Idris whose winter job is piste patrol (in Megeve) to chip in and say what they would do (and have done) in such a situation. But I suspect @zikomo and @Dave of the Marmottes are close to being right.

I agree that Flaine and Avoriaz would work well for Geneva flights - Sestriere or Montgenevre depend on suitable flights to Turin. Or even Megeve (shared transfer 1.5h, private shorter) knowing there is an English speaking Snowhead as part of piste patrol, though you can expect accommodation to be rather more expensive.

You know it makes sense.

Thanks for all your suggestions

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@SnowHounder, Sound's like you are pretty close to working it all out, Flaine sounds like it has the right kind of skiing for you. Lots of easy reds and blues and I can only think of a couple of steep runs in the resort (one very short section on a black run at the top of Flaine and a bump run above Samoens).

Avoriaz would be ok but tends to get busier in my experience because a lot of folk head up there from Morzine during the day and it creates pinch points in the lift system (It's been a while since I went there so perhaps it's better now).

If you get stuck and don't find something suitable in Flaine you could also have a look at Saint-Gervais-les-Bains (for Megeve), there may be ski in/out accommodation close to the bottom gondola station. Megeve sounds like a good fit for your ski preferences too. It's a lovely place which doesn't get the same amount of package holiday traffic from the UK as some resorts.

A snowHead

Had an incident in VT in April, my first major one in 20+ trips.

Slipped on ice before the first lift and broke my collar bone in 2 places. Was with 3 other blokes, so not my kids, so they were more than able to deal with things.

My point is, from the time of the fall, to getting to the VT med centre, going to Albertville hospital, having it screwed and plated, being discharged and then back to VT was les than 30 hours total. I was in surgery within 6 hours. Very, very impressed.

I imagine 'most' injuries wouldn't even lead to having to leave resort, so you'd be very unlucky. As others have said, a bit of pre prep, and it'll all be fine. Have a brilliant trip.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I took each of my daughters on trips when they were 12.
It was so impressive how mature they were and how enjoyable those trips were.
Youngest had a 5 dayer.....poor love Cool

.
On both those trips I booked Alpe d'Huez independently.
The 7 dayer had EJ both ways to Grenoble and the shorter transfer Bens Bus. Apartment in Eclose.
The 5 dayer was EJ from Gatwick out - BA to H'row back.
If you want a quick trip with some good restaurants that a 12 year old would like, pool, leisure centre, runs for all abilities, great lift system - then ADH takes some beating with its 1.5 hour transfer.

Also for a short trip you could try Les Deux Alpes. Short transfer from Grenoble and the skiing there would suit 4 days, as the terrain boast there is cobblers and it is far smaller than listed. But it has a top rate glacier, lots of cheap accomodation and loads of things to do apres ski.
I just would not reccy that resort for a full week.

For added comfort with potential accidents get a Carre Neige on your lift passes - would make sure you both get off the mountain together in the outside chance of anything going wrong

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I really like the Flaine skiing area. Very easy to get to from Geneva and you're pretty much straight on the piste, wherever you're staying in the town. You can stay skiing in the Flaine bowl, or very easily head out towards the rest of the Grand Massif. I've been there for short trips and it works really well for that. As for the look of the town itself, that sort of thing is well down the list for me, it's the snowy stuff I'm interested in.

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Flaine is considered a brutalist masterpiece, and is the only ski resort designated as a monument historique, which is their equivalent of a listed building. This puts it in the same category as the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre Toofy Grin

The skiing is also pretty good.

After all it is free

@HilbertSpace, arc 1600 is also listed and offers architectural tours.

@luigi, concrete cab age very well. There is still a fair bit of roman concrete about but no roman wood. If you look around arc 1600 the concrete is in good condition. The wood cladding looks terrible and has been replaced more than once. In our apartment block we are constantly being asked for money to replace wooden bits (balconies, decorative cladding and window frames spring to mind) but even after 50 years the concrete structure is fine.

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@johnE, I am partial to a little alpine modernism. Whether it's Marcel Breuer's Flaine or Charlotte Perriand's Arc 1600.

@luigi, having said that I agree Alleghe/Civetta is a great option. What it may lack in austere mid-century architecture, it more than makes up for with it's dramatic backdrop, quiet slopes and fantastic lunch options.

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Father and daughter trip advice

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