 Poster: A snowHead
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My brother and I are planning our yearly trip for mid January this season and we'd like to try somewhere new. We are both strong skiers with avalanche training and gear, but we tend to be very risk averse and don't like skiing super steep things for the most part. Basically our trips are trying to score fresh snow, hitting apres pretty hard (but not out late), and eating good hut food. I'd really like to stick to Austria or Switzerland, as our last trip to France left a bit of a bad taste in our mouth and feel that Austria is better value.
We've been to-
3 valleys- loved Val Thorens, but a bit too crowded even in January
Espace Killy- loved Tignes and Val D'Isere, but had miserable weather so maybe didn't get the full picture
Zermatt- liked a good bit, too expensive
Ischgl- party scene a bit too much, skiing was mediocre
St Anton- by far our favorite town, but loved skiing off piste more in Lech/Zurs/Warth because St Anton was a bit too hardcore
Les Arcs- very underwhelmed
La Plagne- felt huge, absolutely packed when we went in mid January for some reason
Anyway, we would be pretty happy with returning to St Anton, but I was wondering if anyone had any good suggestions to venture out some new places in Austria.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the zillertal. There's some great easy accessable terrain at Hoch Fügen also at Zell am ziller.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And nice mountain huts above kaltenbach and over towards hochfugen
Saalbach has lots of mellow meadows if you get snow. Would probably need a guide to find.
I suspect solden and obergurgl have similar having seen wide open mountain faces when I was there but I didn't do off piste there
Engelberg has lots of off piste, some steeper but the off piste culture there makes it more accessible. Still closer to Anton levels of steep though in fairness.
Actually maybe verbier is your best bet though. Outstanding accessible off piste left right and centre, and while some of it is steep there is side piste everywhere which is very accessible and again a big off piste culture so you're a little more secure than other places
However if your focus is on good snow I would just wait and book last minute.
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Well, it may be out of the question as a long way from Austria, but have you considered Japan? Resorts like Niseko are absolutely perfect for mild off-piste. To give you an idea for how different Niseko is to what you would find in Europe, the base is around 200m and the peak is just over 1200, with most of the resort offering mellow gradients. This may make you wonder why you would fly half way across the world for it, and the answer is that it provides the perfect playground for skiing easy, accessible powder that is unlike anything closer to home. Most of the mountain is skiable with loads of fun, easy terrain. Expert skiers and boarders go there for the more adventurous off-piste and backcountry.
As well as high end offerings, basic mountain huts that have been there for decades still offer excellent value for money and delicious food like Katsu curry, rice bowls and ramen. Hirafu Village is full of international food trucks and lively bars.
I live in Germany and ski in Austria a lot, but the quality is not comparable. Especially because those resorts offering great value for money typically don't offer reliable snow cover, let alone great conditions, and the best resorts are just too crowded.
While flights are an unavoidable cost of getting out there, in resort costs are surprisingly reasonable, especially with yen still being incredibly low.
More info is available here: https://japanskiexperience.com/resorts/niseko/
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Thighs, Austrian spots you haven't mentioned might include Kitzbühel (but needs good snow, how reliable that might be is a complete unknown) and , as mentioned above, Saalbach - primarily the valley between Fieberbrunn & Saalbach which is used for the freeride world tour. Swiss options of Verbier, Engelberg & Andermatt. Not sure any of these (except Verbier) match up to the Arlberg.
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@Thighs,
Given how many times you've been to the Tarentaise, surprised you never discovered Ste Foy, but the night life might not be what you are looking for. But good night life = many people in resort = fresh snow quickly tracked out.
Haute Maurienne would be worth a look, too.
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| Quote: |
our trips are trying to score fresh snow
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And therein, @Thighs, lies your problem.
1. it's hard to time when you book in advance
2. "Off piste" doesn't mean powder, it means skiing anything. Personally I was comfortable on just about anything else off piste well before I became comfortable in powder!
3. "Soft" snow can be found well after snow falls, depending on conditions, transformations and some of the best skiing is on corn snow (and that doesn't even need the gradient that slightly heavy powder does ... but if you don't know the area, that means finding a good guide.
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The thing about ski stations in the Pyrénées is that there aren't many off-piste fanatics, so it isn't like the Alps where fresh dumps are all tracked-out by 10am.
Don't forget: although the depth/accumulation isn't as good as The Alps, The Pyrénées gets more total snowfall.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Similar to what @under a new name has said, if you want untouched snow then a guides and touring gear are the way to go. The obvious terrain in any mainstream resort will be fully tracked out by mid morning after a snowfall and even guides in most resorts would struggle to find lift served fresh snow two days later. With that in mind I would prioritise resorts where you can join guided groups which isn't all of them and hire touring gear (you will be able to find this in most resorts now)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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"apres" isn't generally a good way to make the first chair, which if you're looking for fresh tracks at a big name resort is what you'll need.
For untracked snow I'd always look for "family" resorts, because the big name places are full of ... the sort of people who want what you want.
The Pyrenees fits that, although I remember a lot of rock from when I've been there, so some depth is likely required.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Why not Italy? Monte Rosa has the quietist resorts I've been to and offers quite lot of lift accessed off piste that doesn't get tracked out in an hour. Italy is cheap compared to France too, prices comparable with Austria. 1.5 hrs from Turin.
Weak for apres though, Champoluc was dead!
Good skiing, bit of sceret spot for seasoners/those in the know. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I will definitely look into the Zillertal. Verbier and Japan have been on the radar for us for a while now but haven't done either yet just because of cost, but coming from the states Japan isn't quite as far for us. We have no problem hitting a few smaller resorts over a week either. That's what we loved about Warth- fresh snow 4 days after a storm! We also aren't super picky about what type of snow we ski off piste, as long as it's not ice or tons of moguls. Just happy if we get a storm or if lucky 2 that come through.
We'd really rather not get a guide, we prefer to do things on our own at our own pace and guides are just a bit pricey. Also have touring gear but are very lazy about going uphill in recent years haha.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Zillertall would be a good spot for somewhere new.
Maybe you need to give Ischgl another shot. There is actually lots of good off piste there. Especially off the Piz Val.
Gasteintal is a bit trickier to get around, but there is definitely good offpiste available when you combine all the hills.
But really, in terms of Austria, you won't do better than Ski Arlberg. Pick what ever part of it you want. I know folks on here get really attached to certain parts of it, but to me, especially with the connecting gondolas there are now, it's all just one big resort.
I'm intrigued by the fact you are writing off the off piste for Tignes/Val and 3 Vallees so quickly. Yes, the main lines get tracked quickly, but they are so big, there is lots of hidden lines as well that stay fresh for a long time. And lots of it is quite mellow with no need for skinning.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Definitely haven't written off 3 valleys or EK for off piste by any means. It's so big and extensive you could ski something new every day for years. The entire skiing experience in France is just not really what we like compared to Austria. Seems to be pay more for food, accommodation, and especially beer and get less there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Thighs wrote: |
Thanks for the replies everyone. I will definitely look into the Zillertal. Verbier and Japan have been on the radar for us for a while now but haven't done either yet just because of cost, but coming from the states Japan isn't quite as far for us. We have no problem hitting a few smaller resorts over a week either. That's what we loved about Warth- fresh snow 4 days after a storm! We also aren't super picky about what type of snow we ski off piste, as long as it's not ice or tons of moguls. Just happy if we get a storm or if lucky 2 that come through.
We'd really rather not get a guide, we prefer to do things on our own at our own pace and guides are just a bit pricey. Also have touring gear but are very lazy about going uphill in recent years haha. |
I wouldn’t go to Verbier for what you’re after. Combining Andermatt and Engelberg would be a good Swiss option. Japan is the ultimate destination for mellow pow, specifically Hokkaido for the blower variety, although Niseko is not cheap for good accommodation. If you’re based in the US you also have great powder options in Utah, Colorado and BC. Is there a reason you’re not looking at those?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| wouldn’t go to Verbier for what you’re after. Combining Andermatt and Engelberg would be a good Swiss option. Japan is the ultimate destination for mellow pow, specifically Hokkaido for the blower variety, although Niseko is not cheap for good accommodation. If you’re based in the US you also have great powder options in Utah, Colorado and BC. Is there a reason you’re not looking at those? |
US ski resorts are toast as far as I'm concerned. They have better snow but that's where the enjoyment ends. The entire culture of skiing in the states just sucks quite frankly haha I may never ski here again. We have been coming to the alps since 2018 and save tons of money even considering flights. Everything is a scam- 200+ dollars a day for lift pass, 500 dollars a night for a place to stay any where close to the lifts, and the worst food imaginable for like 50 bucks on the slope. Apres is terrible too. Sorry for the rant it's just a joke what skiing has become here.
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| Thighs wrote: |
Thanks for the replies everyone. I will definitely look into the Zillertal. Verbier and Japan have been on the radar for us for a while now but haven't done either yet just because of cost, but coming from the states Japan isn't quite as far for us. We have no problem hitting a few smaller resorts over a week either. That's what we loved about Warth- fresh snow 4 days after a storm! We also aren't super picky about what type of snow we ski off piste, as long as it's not ice or tons of moguls. Just happy if we get a storm or if lucky 2 that come through.
We'd really rather not get a guide, we prefer to do things on our own at our own pace and guides are just a bit pricey. Also have touring gear but are very lazy about going uphill in recent years haha. |
Bear in mind that the Arlberg gets more snow on average than anywhere else in the Alps and Warth is the snowiest village of the Arlberg. Doesnt mean that you wont find fresh powder elsewhere or that the best conditions will be in the Arlberg just that you will have more chance if visiting there.
A site that might interest you is https://wepowder.com/en it is run by a group of Dutch folk, all keen skiers / snowboarders. The regular detailed forecasts are useful in identifying areas likely to have the most snowfall in the following days, the automatic forecast tends to the optimistic side but still useful.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Thighs wrote: |
| Quote: |
| wouldn’t go to Verbier for what you’re after. Combining Andermatt and Engelberg would be a good Swiss option. Japan is the ultimate destination for mellow pow, specifically Hokkaido for the blower variety, although Niseko is not cheap for good accommodation. If you’re based in the US you also have great powder options in Utah, Colorado and BC. Is there a reason you’re not looking at those? |
US ski resorts are toast as far as I'm concerned. They have better snow but that's where the enjoyment ends. The entire culture of skiing in the states just sucks quite frankly haha I may never ski here again. We have been coming to the alps since 2018 and save tons of money even considering flights. Everything is a scam- 200+ dollars a day for lift pass, 500 dollars a night for a place to stay any where close to the lifts, and the worst food imaginable for like 50 bucks on the slope. Apres is terrible too. Sorry for the rant it's just a joke what skiing has become here. |
Sorry to hear that. You’ll be delighted to hear that Vail resorts and Alterra are now hungrily eyeing up Euro resorts!
If you’ve not tried it yet I’d suggest Japan, the skiing is great and the cultural experience, food, onsens, people etc adds another dimension. Just try and get beyond Niseko by including some smaller resorts.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 20-10-24 16:55; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
Sorry to hear that. You’ll be delighted to hear that Vail resorts and Alterra are now hungrily eyeing up Euro resorts!
If you’ve not tried it yet I’d suggest Japan, the skiing is great and the cultural experience, good, onsens, people etc adds another dimension. Just try and get beyond Niseko by including some smaller resorts. |
I've been following their expansion to Europe it and it's depressing. Interesting how they seem to only want to get into Swiss resorts, probably some way of evading taxes maybe. Need to research Japan more, would probably want to make it longer than a 1 week trip if going through the effort to get there. Small resorts are the best anyway.
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Surprised you said Ischgl skiing mediocre.Always think of it as a good place for mild off piste and not tracked out as the majority don't bother with it there.Throw in Kappl,See and Galtur and it's a great valley.
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So far on the thread I don't see a reference to Val d'anniviers. Apologies if I've missed it.
@Thighs, to put this valley into context. To the west Verbier to the east Saas Fee & Zermatt.
Many Brits haven't discovered this gem as it's hard to believe the hyperbole.
However it really is as good as the best trip report you can find. The villages are Zinal, Grimentz St Luc and Chandolin.
Access is from the Rhone Valley on the post bus, an entertaining ride to say the least.
Refering directly to your thread title this area will provide you with plenty of mild off - piste.
In addition there is access to quite a lot of "far from mild" op. Well worth looking at.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Monterosa? Lots of lift served good off-piste, Italian food and (low) prices. If its a bit small for you and you've got a car there's the other Aosta valley resorts with plenty to offer to in Courmeyeur, LaThile (ski into LaRosiere/France) Cervinia (ski to Zermatt/Switzerland).
SerreChevalier? Lots of lift served stuff there and opportunity to drive to Montgenevre (and ski into Italy) or over the pass to LeGrave (only lift served off-piste)
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Obertauren could be a good bet - Not a very big area, but tons of easy and accessible off-piste - Also an excellent snow record.
Gastein Valley could also be an option, and is usually pretty cheap too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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+1 for Kitz and surrounding areas, tons and tons of mellow side/off piste that doesnt get tracked out quickly, Jochberg is always deserted and fits the bill
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This site might be of interest to you it definitely helped me find some good places.
https://www.powderhounds.com/
If fresh snow was my number 1 objective I would either book last minute or hire a camper/moho and drive to the best conditions.
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| MAthert wrote: |
This site might be of interest to you it definitely helped me find some good places.
https://www.powderhounds.com/
If fresh snow was my number 1 objective I would either book last minute or hire a camper/moho and drive to the best conditions. |
I'm assuming you mean by this to park up & live in the camper in resort? Not all resorts allow that.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Thighs, what @adithorp says. Have a look at Italy, it will certainly tick the 'low cost' / good food aspect. Snow will be what it'll be... probably don't pick the Dolomites as less snow sure.
A car would give you best flexibility (will probably be a stick-shift tho!). Montgenevre (France) links to Sestriere/Sauzy - which can be very good if there's snow, and mellow offpiste that's much less tracked than St Anton...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As above.
Go to Japan.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You said small resorts were your preference so Innsbruck with the City + Pass might suit. You'd get a bit more chance of powder because you'd be able to choose from a lot of local resorts. It sounds like the top section of the Nordkette ski area might be a good fit. It can be done on public transport but hire car would make it more pleasant. I did a week in Innsbruck in January 24 and we did get quite a lot of lift serviced powder/side piste at various places.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| phil_w wrote: |
"apres" isn't generally a good way to make the first chair, which if you're looking for fresh tracks at a big name resort is what you'll need.
For untracked snow I'd always look for "family" resorts, because the big name places are full of ... the sort of people who want what you want.
The Pyrenees fits that, although I remember a lot of rock from when I've been there, so some depth is likely required. |
Well if Thighs wants apres, then Pas de la Casa/Soldeu are the best shout for easily accessible off piste and apres. However, January and February are statistically the driest months in Andorra and I'm guessing that's also the case for a lot of the rest of the Pyrenees.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
This site might be of interest to you it definitely helped me find some good places.
https://www.powderhounds.com/
If fresh snow was my number 1 objective I would either book last minute or hire a camper/moho and drive to the best conditions.
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Vans for Bands have 9-seat vehicles available that we think could be perfect for this type of ski holiday. Book a van and a crossing, choose your resort at the last-minute when you know where the best snow in Europe can be found.
We'll be making some reduced price van rentals available on SnowHeads later this week, £995 for a 'luxury' van and £750 for a 'basic' van, this will be for 10 nights' rental from any date between 20th December 2024 and 19th January 2025. Chains, winter tyres, insurance and breakdown cover included, although excess applies on insurance. Prices based on collection and drop off at depot near Oxford, home address drop off and collection can be arranged at extra cost.
If anyone is interested in making up a group of 6 to 8, hiring a van and then waiting for the best snow, then please get in touch - especially for January holidays.
Have a look at the vehicles and a video of a van on a trip to the Alps. Hopefully this message isn't spam, just trying to make a genuine reduced price offer available on this web forum. It's something different, and could suit keen snow sports enthusiasts looking for something,well, different. If you want to hit fresh snow in Europe, this could be one way of doing it - or, at least, maximising your chances.
https://www.vansforbands.co.uk/winter-holidays
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Aosta Valley, Italy
In via Milan or Turin
Rent a car
Stay in Aosta
Drive to whichever of the big and small resorts you fancy that day. There's around 17 in the valley to choose from.
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=169136
And in the link above there are further links to plenty of other great value for money easily accessible powder destinations across Europe
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I promise that I'm not being a man with a hammer here and I apologise for France (although this bit has decent prices) but the availability of lots of easily accessible and relatively safe off piste is a key reason why I bought a place in Les Contamines.
It's not got the great terrain of St Anton but nor are you fighting for tracks on a powder day. Unless its peak season, if you use a bit of imagination you should get a couple of days of proper powder skiing after a dump.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I know its technically France but how about Montgenevre / Aigle sector?
Piste skiing probs a bit limited but to make your trip from the states worthwhile you have Italy within skiable distance for lunch and quite an expansive area (with a guide)
Alternatively you could stay in Les Duex Alpes for a quick warm up, get a guide and ski La Grave for your stay . . . . lots of offpiste options there from relative offpiste novice to hardcore mofo . . .
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There is some interesting offpiste in Les Deux Alpes too.
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| Belch wrote: |
I know its technically France but how about Montgenevre / Aigle sector?
Piste skiing probs a bit limited but to make your trip from the states worthwhile you have Italy within skiable distance for lunch and quite an expansive area (with a guide)
Alternatively you could stay in Les Duex Alpes for a quick warm up, get a guide and ski La Grave for your stay . . . . lots of offpiste options there from relative offpiste novice to hardcore mofo . . . |
Yes and Sestriere and Sauze D'Oulx are good options if you like skiing in the (nicely spaced) trees*
(*and if you don't what on earth is wrong with you?  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jedster wrote: |
Yes and Sestriere and Sauze D'Oulx are good options if you like skiing in the (nicely spaced) trees*
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Some even nicer trees at Montgenevre too (above Claviere)
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FAQ
