 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They've counter acted the locals discount I believe by applying an early bird price, which can only be brought in person. Therefore likely only locals that will purchase it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Basically you cant discriminate in favour of any particular group in this case residents of Tirol. So now the price is the same for everyone. However there is a catch the ticket can no longer be purchased online only in person from various places in Tirol. So if I want to buy one I have to travel to Tirol (which I can easily do for "free" as I have a Deutschland ticket which includes Kufstein but no good for Dutch, Brits, north Germans etc) and the cheaper version must be purchased before 31st October. The price has gone up a fair bit but offers good value if you ski a lot and are local (even for folk living in Rosenheim or Garmisch say), especially for families. Not sure it has any real attraction for those based further away unless planning on spending a big lump of time in Tirol over the winter. No idea whether the Salzburgerland one is better value, also note the number of days in the Arlberg & Ischgl is limited (3 I think).
The article has a load of whinging at the end about how badly treated Tirol folk are having to put up with all the transit traffic & tourists, no mention that a good few have become very wealthy with the whole thing! There is a good chance that the traffic restrictions over the Brenner will end up at the European court which will no doubt cause a big fuss.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
The article has a load of whinging at the end about how badly treated Tirol folk are having to put up with all the transit traffic & tourists, no mention that a good few have become very wealthy with the whole thing! There is a good chance that the traffic restrictions over the Brenner will end up at the European court which will no doubt cause a big fuss. |
The argument I hear from locals/colleagues is that everyone is already subjected to higher prices for property, rents etc etc so the locals discount is a sweetner to counteract that.
I wonder how the summer lift pass in the Zillertal will work, as it was only possible to purchase this as a local, so I wonder if that removes it being available or be available to all. It could have an effect on whether I buy a winter pass for just the Zillertal or the Tirol Snowcard.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think it's a pretty fair way of dealing with it. Everyone gets the opportunity to buy it, but there is still essentially a locals price, since very few non locals would be able buy it in person between Oct 1 and 31.
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This happened in the Tarrentaise a couple years ago. The result was that the price of Paradiski season passes dropped considerably and they introduced season passes that gave you 1 or 2 days in any 7. Anyone could buy them but clearly only the locals coud make maximimum use of them (and seasonnaires).
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Ooh and this was the year we were going to buy a season pass (early bird) Ski welt,
I had seen a price but it was removed last week and states it will be announced at the end of the month.
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@2waterford, depending on the difference in early bird prices, and potential savings, it could be worth flying over for a day, then flying back.
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| swskier wrote: |
| @2waterford, depending on the difference in early bird prices, and potential savings, it could be worth flying over for a day, then flying back. |
Don’t think that would be an option, will probably just ski less days
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The Freizeitticket is probably worth it if you're going to get around 3 weeks skiing in a season in or around the Innsbruck area and does carry on for summer use. If you'd like to see FC Wacker ( not sure Eishockey is still included) or go to pools then that's a nice kicker. 3 days each in Arlberg and Ischgl aren't to be sniffed at as I'd guess day tix are pushing 70 these days.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, given Zillertal will be €76 a day next season, I'd imagine Ischgl and Arlberg are similar!
Also worth noting that Rodelbahn (tobogganing) is included in the Freizeit ticket, and if you've not experienced that at night, it's really great.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Ischgl also €76 day pass, season ticket north of a grand. Arlberg has not published prices yet but would imagine at least as much. In reality the ticket is only really of interest if you are living in or near Tirol. Perfect for local sporty families. I believe the Tirol Snowcard can also only be bought from a ticket point not online purchase but think is skiing only and more expensive.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, Ischgl also €76 day pass, season ticket north of a grand. Arlberg has not published prices yet but would imagine at least as much. In reality the ticket is only really of interest if you are living in or near Tirol. Perfect for local sporty families. I believe the Tirol Snowcard can also only be bought from a ticket point not online purchase but think is skiing only and more expensive. |
Last season was skiing only, no night skiing (as I found out after driving 1.5hrs to Kühtai to find out I had to pay, albeit only €22), and winter only.
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You know it makes sense.
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| 2waterford wrote: |
Ooh and this was the year we were going to buy a season pass (early bird) Ski welt,
I had seen a price but it was removed last week and states it will be announced at the end of the month. |
The Skiwelt website doesn't say anything about only being able to pick up season cards in person for early bird tickets. I know the lift company here have never offered local discount but have for many years had early bird season tickets that you can buy online and have them sent in the post including UK addresses.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ed48, the Tirol snowcard also gives access to big areas not on Freizeit, such as Zillertal, Skiwelt and Kitzski. So depending on where you're thinking of going, it's worth considering both options.
I'm in Innsbruck tomorrow and taking the train back to Zillertal after so that Mrs Swskier can use the van to collect her parents from the airport. If I get a chance I'll look at the baggage situation at the trainstation.
I did also notice another place last weekend when we were in Innsbruck, but it's pricey.
https://www.citylocker.store/en-gb/lockers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ed48, There are lots of lockers at the Hauptbahnhof, they updated the payment system recently so it works much better. However I am pretty sure it is a maximum of 24 hours. I dont believe there is a staffed left luggage spot in the station itself.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I did check citylockers, its 400 eur for 3 weeks 
Its unlikely the easy solution exists to keep ski stuff in Austria. Keep them with the ski buddies or leave at apartment, both have pros and cons, the most freedom is taking with you every time.
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@ed48, you can probably find a student flat who will let you keep the skis in their basement in Innsbruck for beer money; you'd just have to work out a way that you can def get access to them when you need them (ie in case all students go home for Christmas or whatever).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If it is arguable that it is discriminatory to sell locals discounted lift tickets then locals may well argue that all the free travel and entry fees on the guest visitor cards are discriminatory to them.
Many locals and season workers due to the nature of their work may not get so many days to ski in the season and if the season pass price rises it will not be possible to justify the expense. I feel the fuse has been lit.
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"We are working on a solution"
Local fares for cable cars have been around for a long time – but perhaps not for much longer.
The cable car operators (also in the district) try to save them, because there is more at stake than you would think at first glance.
The local fares of the cable cars are shaky – rescue attempts are being considered .
The responsible Federal Office of Metrology and Surveying wrote to a Tyrolean cable car and ski area operator as early as 2022, with reference to the EU Services Directive and the EU Geoblocking Regulation, that fare reductions should be avoided.
They would violate EU law: "Anyone who offers discounted tariffs to locals will be fined 720 euros per case," quotes the Tyrolean Chamber of Labour. And that would then of course cost money. There is another legal opinion, according to which EU law does not apply in this case, since cable cars are not a service, but public transport. But now it's getting serious for everyone, the Tyrolean and Tyrolean cable car operators.
"We are still working on a solution," says a cable car boss in the district of Landeck.
In any case, everything should be done to ensure that the local tariffs remain - and all cable car operators see it that way. For them, it's about more than saving the Tyroleans a few euros: If the Tyroleans can't buy discounted day or season tickets, they may no longer be on the slopes at all. And that means: no exercise in the fresh air, no young skiers and probably also a tourism attitude that tourism does not want. The Chamber of Labour fears even further turbulence: In the end, there could be the end of all tariff concessions, including student and senior citizen tariffs.
In addition, guest cards are also likely to be discussed (although the cable car operator from the district currently assumes that the discounts for guest card holders are legally ok).
In any case, the cable car operators are legally clarifying what options there are for maintaining the "local tariffs". As long as no injunction or the like is filed, the current system could be left in place – but at some point it will affect every cable car. "In the end, it's about: Who sues whom?" says the cable car operator from the district.
At least there is no final solution yet, "probably there is not a common solution for all mountain railways either," suspects the expert from the district.
There are trials: The Imst Bergbahnen continue to grant holders of the Tyrolean Family Pass "local tariffs". Managing Director Bernhard Schöpf's reasoning is: "The criteria of the Tyrolean Family Pass exclude no one. Only the main residence must be in Tyrol." It remains to be seen whether this holds.
The popular Tirol RegioCard takes a different approach – in the pre-sale month of October, it's much cheaper: the card costs 672 euros for an adult (from 1 November then 914 euros). Children (born 2009 to 2018) pay 336 euros (then 458), young people 537 euros (then 731) and disabled people (60% and older) 504 euros (then 686).
The family ticket is only available in October and costs between 764 euros (1 adult, 1 child) and 1,712 euros (2 adults, 4 children). Tickets can only be purchased in person at the ticket counters – it is not allowed, for example, for friends or landlords to buy tickets for other people.
In the case of tickets in the family group, it is sufficient for the head of the family (parents or grandparents) to buy tickets for their children/grandchildren.
https://www.rundschau.at/landeck/lokales/wir-arbeiten-an-einer-losung
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I have a memory of a small french resort being told they cannot sell discounted local passes, something along the lines of a disgruntled guest took it to the highest level of the european courts who ruled it should not be allowed. This was about 20 years ago. My internet searching cannot find the case.
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It's quite annoying, but just feels like another excuse to jump the price up after several years of “we were closed because of covid and need more money,” “there were fewer guests and we need more money,” “we're still recovering and need more money” blah blah, and I'm not convinced that their maths actually maths.
The tickets can be sold to anyone, not just someone with a local address, so they will likely sell more and so the price must go up? I know that the lift companies don't actually want to sell more season passes, especially not at the cheaper early-bird rate, because they calculate that it will reduce the number of day passes sold at the full price. But that assumes that everyone would ski the same number of days regardless, which I don't think is the case, especially if conditions aren't that great.
Also, if local families are priced out of skiing, the influx of young skiers into the system will fail, and they won't become the ski instructors, lifties, piste patrol, avalanche management etc. of the future. Already, a lot of skiers have turned to touring-only, and don't buy any kind of pass and often carry their own food too. Sometimes it is because of the price (resorts have turned to gouging on the car parking) – several that I know used to buy a pass and mix touring with lift-access, but these days feel they are priced out.
I keep seeing “we are trying to find a solution” in the press, but the tickets go on sale next week. I suspect the attempt will fizzle out quite soon. Personally, I will probably use my ~€200 ski token bonus that the govt sends me around Sep/Oct. Not too much you can do with a wodge of actual cash these days, so handing it to the tourist office in exchange for a ski pass seems like a good use for it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| hsdee wrote: |
If it is arguable that it is discriminatory to sell locals discounted lift tickets then locals may well argue that all the free travel and entry fees on the guest visitor cards are discriminatory to them.
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Locals have been arguing this for years, but those benefits aren't really free; they are financed by the Kur-Taxe that tourists pay.
| hsdee wrote: |
Many locals and season workers due to the nature of their work may not get so many days to ski in the season and if the season pass price rises it will not be possible to justify the expense. I feel the fuse has been lit. |
| Scarlet wrote: |
Also, if local families are priced out of skiing, the influx of young skiers into the system will fail, and they won't become the ski instructors, lifties, piste patrol, avalanche management etc. of the future. Already, a lot of skiers have turned to touring-only, and don't buy any kind of pass and often carry their own food too. Sometimes it is because of the price (resorts have turned to gouging on the car parking) – several that I know used to buy a pass and mix touring with lift-access, but these days feel they are priced out.
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As Scarlet says, been happening for a while already, and is likely to have knock-on consequences down the line for many segments of the industry. You have to remember the differences between Austria and France/Italy here too: for most of the Austrian population skiing is, or was, the equivalent of football; it was something everyone did, and was normal and affordable not an expensive sport for the privileged to do once or twice a year. That's already changed and many families particularly are priced out.
The public transport stuff Stanton posted above is interesting though, if that then falls into a different rule pot. Because in Austria ski lifts already do fall under public transport, which is why resorts had to keep the lifts spinning during corona even when tourism was not allowed.
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@clarky999, are you buying a Freizeit ticket this year? With the increase in price, the Tirol card starts to look like better value, though I've had a fair bit of use out of mine this summer so will probably stick with it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Scarlet, nope. I didn’t last year either, but I have access to free day tickets in the local resorts through work, and as with the little guy here now I basically only go skiing on powder days, not buying the FZT gives me more flexibility to buy day tickets outside the region if there’s more snow somewhere else.
He’ll start learning to ski this winter though (can’t wait to start teaching him!), so probably 25-26 we’ll get whatever family version of the FZT exists
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I have just seen presale season price listed on Skiwelt page of €650 and €722 full price, I hope these are correct but have a feeling they may not.
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You know it makes sense.
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We have a residents’ pass here in Andorra. €425 for the whole of Andorra but nowhere near as much terrain as Tirol. There’s also a reduced rate for people who live in the nearest Spanish town. The government are pushing for closer links to the EU. It’ll be annoying if one of the things they do away with is the season pass although it’ll be even more annoying if they change the income tax rate!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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For the reasons mentioned, I’m not opposed to local discounts. However, what I still don’t understand is why I haven’t been able to purchase the Tirol Regio Card or the Freizeit Card (as an no-Tirol Local), even at different prices.
That said, it's worth noting that the same locals who are upset about the situation now probably found it amusing and justified when it happened years ago. But from the other sid...
Karlsruhe (Court Decision): Municipal swimming pools may only offer discounted entry prices to local residents in exceptional cases. If the pools target not only local but also non-local swimming enthusiasts, different pricing constitutes discrimination, as ruled by the Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe in a decision published on Tuesday, August 23, 2016 (Case No.: 2 BvR 470/0 . As a result, an Austrian visitor may be entitled to reclaim €2.50 of his entry fee, plus interest.
The Austrian had visited a thermal bath in the Berchtesgadener Land in September 2005. The sole shareholder of the municipal leisure pool was a tourism association in which a district and five municipalities were involved. However, to access the thermal bath, the complainant had to pay the regular entry fee, while local residents paid €2.50 less, which amounted to about a third of the total entry price.
Feeling discriminated against due to the different pricing structure, the Austrian demanded the return of the €2.50 difference, plus interest.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We got our annual ski pass here back at the beginning of June, which was certainly cheaper for me being Main residence than if I was not. It also included free use of the gondolas in the summer which we have certainly been taking advantage of.
The only issue was as opposed to recent years, I dont now have either of the Tiroler Card, or the Salzburger ski pass, so if I ski anywhere other than the Kitzbuhel ski area, I will have to buy a pass. But with a saving of nearly 400 euros over last years pass, which didnt include either a discount for being a local, or use of any summer gondolas, I felt it was worth it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| jafa wrote: |
| The only issue was as opposed to recent years, I dont now have either of the Tiroler Card, or the Salzburger ski pass, so if I ski anywhere other than the Kitzbuhel ski area, I will have to buy a pass. But with a saving of nearly 400 euros over last years pass, which didnt include either a discount for being a local, or use of any summer gondolas, I felt it was worth it. |
This is the decision I'm right on the cusp of, and can't make yet until the Zillertal announce their pass prices. There was something on the website a month or so ago, but that's now disappeared.
Realistically, I'll ski pretty much solely in the Zillertal, however, I'm planning on entering some masters races which last year consisted of 5 events around Tirol all of which weren't in the Zillertal. They're small areas so you're probably looking at €40-50 for a pass I'd guess, and that probably brings it to a similar level to the Tirol snowcard. The Germans were supposed to be holding their FIS Masters Cup race in St Johann im Tirol, which would have made it more of a reason for the Tirol snowcard, but that's now moved to Bischofswiesen in Germany.
Then there's the summer element as you mention, we bought a summer pass this year at €190, but when you include it in the Zillertal ski pass it was a €120 add on last year, but not sure what will happen with that one as it was a locals only pass.
Also, if I have the Tirol Snowcard, I can spontaneously meet friends for a ski as they're outside of the Zillertal, and the company ski race is in Reith im Alpbachtal so would also be included.
Hopefully Zillertal prices will be out soon and I can weigh up the 2 options.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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“”Then there's the summer element as you mention, we bought a summer pass this year at €190, but when you include it in the Zillertal ski pass it was a €120 add on last year, but not sure what will happen with that one as it was a locals only pass.””
Ours was free no extra. Ie buying the annual pass in the summer inc the summer gondolas which if we had purchased would also have been 190e just for the summer
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So I made it to the Kassa today, and Zillertal are giving a locals discount with the Meldezettel again this season.
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I feel like I am fully missing something here. I have only just looked into the snow card tirol and it seems to be €1,124 and included Ischgl, but the Ischgl season pass alone is €1,124.... Are you restricted to only a set number of days in each resort or something with the Tirol one? Thank you!
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@Thew2002, Snowcard is cheaper if bought before the end of October, €989. No limitations to the number of days in Ischgl with the snowcard. If it's the same price as the Ischgl pass it's a no brainer to get the snowcard as it gives you options of elsewhere.
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@Thew2002, the Snowcard is not valid for the Arlberg, Freizeit card gets you 3 days
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yeh I was thinking of getting the Arlberg card AND this Tirol one. My friend has a car so as long as we do 15 days in ischgl it should have paid for itself which is my thinking.
I only heard about this Tirol one yesterday though, if you know of a better combination for me please shout!
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| swskier wrote: |
| So I made it to the Kassa today, and Zillertal are giving a locals discount with the Meldezettel again this season. |
Is that for a Tirol card or just the local one?
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FAQ
