 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, I’m trying to find reasonable insurance for this winter. Family of 3 spending the season in France purely recreational trip. Don’t need insurance for passes, accommodation, equipment etc. Really need the accident medical and repatriation cover.
90 days
Off piste in bounds
Off piste guided
Snowpark
Heli/cat skiing
BMC is about £1100, ski club GB and Snowsports England/Scotand don’t offer long enough.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Have you tried insurance through your bank? My (somewhat elderly) parents bank with NatWest and have their travel insurance through them and have up to 90 days coverage. They've got all sorts of medical existing condition add-ons but I think they pay around £500 - £600 per year in total. And when they've had to use the insurance in the past for a serious medical issue abroad (heart attack and pacemaker fitted) the insurance company were tremendous and covered everything including surgery and recuperation in a top private hospital.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@MAthert, Welcome to snowheads. there is no such thing as "off piste in bounds" in Europe, its either off piste or not. Pay very close attention to terms and conditions around off piste. many policies only cover it with a guide.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Try Snowcard, very tailorable although it might not be much cheaper. Also heliskiing is illegal in France although you can fly into Italy and in odd cases like Val d’Isere to Bonneval-sur-Arc you can get a lift back on a heli from an off piste trip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Ski lots, I'm wondering whether the OP is based in the UK as he's asked about "Off piste in bounds", in which case UK insurers are no good to him
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@holidayloverxx, he was looking at BMC and SCGB???
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@MAthert, Are you UK based?
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@MAthert, Where do you live? If in Europe then you can take out membership of the Austrian Alpenverein (Austrian Alpine Club in UK) which offers rescue insurance as part of its membership. However trip length is only 8 weeks but it is possible to pay to extend this, a Family membership is €252 for 3 months see https://www.europaeische.at/pip/en/oeavrs. This insurance also offers a much higher medical insurance cover than that which is included in the basic membership offer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks we are UK based.
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| Ski lots wrote: |
| Try Snowcard, very tailorable although it might not be much cheaper. Also heliskiing is illegal in France although you can fly into Italy and in odd cases like Val d’Isere to Bonneval-sur-Arc you can get a lift back on a heli from an off piste trip. |
My understanding is that helidrops are banned in France, not helipickups, hence the VdI - BsA.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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AAC plus GHIC. Buy the uplifted AAC policy if you're not going to be able to manage on days or else bite the bullet on BMC.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@MAthert, If you are likely to make a brief trip back to the uk in the middle of your season, the standard AAC cover is fine. The 8 week limit on medical and repatriation cover restarts after any return home, however fleeting. That plus the EHIC has sufficed for me and my cronies for 9 seasons.
If not, then what @munich_irish, suggests.
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Thanks for the AAC suggestion but the premium options require you to have your primary residence in Austria.
I think the 10,000 euros medical cover is too low also the 8 weeks is too short.
I will probably fly back for a day mid trip but my wife and daughter would be staying in France.
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You know it makes sense.
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Since they will stop stamping passports soon how do you provide evidence that you returned home for a day in the middle of the trip? I'm genuinely curios
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@johnE, get on the tube and use your credit card, buy something on your card that you can't get online (pasty, sandwich etc), buy something at the airport arrivals.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@MAthert, That's not true to quote from the relevant page of the UK section
| Quote: |
Insurance cover for 8 weeks
Applications are only online and must be approved before the start of the trip. The prerequisite is the valid membership of the Österreichischer Alpenverein (OeAV) and the main residence in Europe. |
see https://www.alpenverein.at/britannia/membership/Member-Benefits/Alpenverein-Weltweit-Service-AWS.php
As has been through around here on numerous occasions the €10,000 limit for health cover on the basic insurance (much higher on the premium offer) is only designed as a top up for private clinics as it is assumed individuals can use their normal health cover (GHIC in case of UK). What it provides that few other insurances do is no quibble rescue insurance in the mountains, no nonsense about guides off piste etc
Agree the basic insurance is not perfect but unless you want to start paying out for something like BMC cover, which is likely to be well in excess of what practically everyone needs, the membership plus GHIC and standard "bank account" insurance works. In your case pay the additional costs for the longer trip length and they would be covered. You should have the GHIC in any case.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks, I really do appreciate this help/info as it feels like such a minefield.
You are right the UK website does state that and when you follow the link to the premium cover it takes you to the policy documents https://www.europaeische.at/pip/en/oeavrs
The 'Insurance Product Information' and 'Coverage Description' documents state main place of residence in Europe
However the 'Terms and Conditions of Insurance document states "Additional precondition for the Alpenverein Premium-annual travel cover is that the insured person has their main place of residence in Austria."
Which is a bit confusing.
Out of interest if we were sticking to the Savoie the AAC cover seems similar to Carre Neige.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@MAthert, SkiClub GB offer an extension to stay for 5 months - you have to have a platinum membership and then apply to the underwriters direct for the extension.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Check out SkiCover
https://www.skicover.com/off-piste-ski-insurance.aspx
| Quote: |
Going off piste within resort boundaries
Under our winter sports ski insurance policies you can ski and snowboard anywhere within resort boundaries provided they are considered safe by resort management.
This means our ski insurance policies cover you to ski and snowboard "anywhere". Be it a pisted run or off piste up to your neck in snow, as long as the area is open and is considered safe then you are OK. If the runs or the area has been shut because of a risk of avalanche or because of low visibility or high winds then you are considered to be skiing and snowboarding against the resort guidelines and if you had an accident your claim could be declined.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Going off piste within resort boundaries
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How do you know where the resort boundaries are?
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provided they are considered safe by resort management.
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Which by definition is only the marked pistes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Which by definition is only the marked pistes
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Exactly. And only the "open" pistes, at that. I've reported before some long and annoying conversations I had with dogtag insurance years ago (they advertised on Snowheads) and claimed to cover off piste. I was only concerned with France. They kept quoting the "resort boundaries" thing at me, and when I eventually got to speak to somebody who purported to know, they clearly knew zilch about skiing. When I asked about avalanche risk warnings I was told "Well no, obviously you wouldn't be covered for skiing off piste if there were avalanche warnings!" as though it was a stupid question. When I said there was always an avalanche risk assessment, even if it was 1, got the same answer. Completely useless - insured elsewhere.
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'Resort boundaries' are also important with regards to whether you pay for rescue. Like the UK normal mountain rescue in France is free. You only pay if you are within ' resort boundaries '. This was explained to me as if you can ski to it from the top of a lift , whether on piste or off piste, without significant climbing, then you are within the 'resort boundaries'. If you take a lift and then skin up to access another area you are outside. I realise there are always going to be grey areas with this definition but I have not come across a better explanation.
I personally spend about 90 days skiing in France each year. Mixture of piste and touring. I rely on EHIC / GHIC card for medical expenses and have a Vieux Campeur card that covers resort rescue. It does have some medical expenses cover but not the millions of pounds some people think they need to have. I am registered at my second home in France so have not really thought too much about repatriation. Some people seem concerned about very expensive repatriation. Personally I would get a friend to hire a transit van and come and pick me up if I was well enough to be discharged from hospital.
If I was staying only within ' resort boundaries' and buying lift passes I would certainly consider carre neige cover with the pass. Really depends on individuals view of risk and thoughts about medical costs / repatriation. Also I am personally not bothered about insurance for luggage / cancellation / equipment etc.
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Note that carre neige covers repatriation so no need to rent the transit and defines the area covered as accessible from ski lifts. I suppose that means without having to do any walking, afterall Mont Blanc is accessible from a ski lift, you just have to walk a lot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
Going off piste within resort boundaries
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How do you know where the resort boundaries are?
| Quote: |
provided they are considered safe by resort management.
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Which by definition is only the marked pistes. |
Has this been tested in court yet? I'd have thought a reasonable definition for off piste within the boundary would be anywhere between the extreme ends of a piste map, with the exception of any excluded area (e.g there's a nature reserve above Aiguille du Fruit in Courchevel)...of course that's not an easy line to draw, but it's more reasonable than a scenario where there is off piste cover but nowhere that complies with a definition of off piste.
Re: repatriation, if you have health insurance through work then it's possibly covered there too, I think if I get carre neige I end up having 3 or 4 competing policies which cover repatriation.
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In Europe I think it's widely understood that off-piste means off-open-pistes. Of course you can get insurance for skiing off-piste; sometimes that specifies that it must be with a guide. If you had insurance for skiing off piste it would seem absurd for a company to quibble because you were outside a line drawn on a map (and maps are just an arbitrary chunk of territory anyway).
I don't think it's strictly accurate to claim that rescue on-piste is paid for, but rescue off-piste not. I recall, when I spent a morning with the pisteurs (fascinating) in Les Saisies they showed us the sheds where they kept their equipment, include special sledges for off piste rescue, with bottoms like boats, rather than sledge runners. I bet if you fell and damaged yourself when venturing off the side of a piste, and needed Hervé and Jérome to come out to rescue you, you'd get a bill, just like when you are stretchered off a piste. I also recall a very sad case in Tignes, some years ago (reported on Snowheads) when a young Englishman lost his life in a very early season avalanche and his grieving family were faced with a big bill for the heli.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I don't think it's strictly accurate to claim that rescue on-piste is paid for, but rescue off-piste not
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That is not what I said. Off piste can certainly be within ' resort boundaries '
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@MAthert, Insurance is a regular topic as it seems to be such a mine field. Primary reason appears to be the issues around off piste and defining such. The advantage of the AAC and BMC and similar over the standard sort of holiday insurance is that they are designed for folk who wish to undertake sporting activities in the mountains. No need to get into semantic discussions over what is and what is not within a "resort", skiing with guides etc. Dont know about the French Carte Neige etc but the Arlberg has rescue insurance as an add on to the lift pass but it only covers the vaguely defined "within the resort boundaries". Personally if I am off piste I dont want to be worrying about what might or might not be covered if I need a heli evacuation.
I am pretty sure the AAC premium insurance is available to UK based members but it is easy to call the UK office and they will be able to confirm one way or other
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@munich_irish, There is a school of thought that says, at least for France, I don't know about Austria, that if you're in the resort boundaries then your insurance will cover you, providing that it says that, and if you're out of resort boundaries then mountain rescue will get you for free and therefore you don't need to know or worry about where the boundaries are. I'm not really a fan of this logic, especially as the companies that mention resort boundaries normally also contain other subjective clauses, and just stick the AAC but then I have never been on ski trip longer than 8 weeks
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You know it makes sense.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Since they will stop stamping passports soon how do you provide evidence that you returned home for a day in the middle of the trip? I'm genuinely curios |
TRavel documents/tickets?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
There is a school of thought that says, at least for France, I don't know about Austria, that if you're in the resort boundaries then your insurance will cover you
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I've not been aware of that "school of thought". Absolutely never, even in the days when I looked very carefully each year at what was covered in my insurance policies. I would only ever have done pretty unadventurous off piste skiing without a guide/instructor, well within any imagined (and they are imagined, nowhere defined) "resort boundaries".
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
johnE wrote:
Since they will stop stamping passports soon how do you provide evidence that you returned home for a day in the middle of the trip? I'm genuinely curios
TRavel documents/tickets?
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So book a return flight from somewhere to the UK, print out the boarding cards but do not even bother getting on the plane. But then you have to get home, not just to your home country. And don't have an accident when you are supposed to be at home.
This is the wording from the BMC
"Trip
A holiday or journey that takes place during the period of insurance and which begins when You
leave Home, and ends on Your return Home or, in the case of repatriation on medical grounds
to a Hospital or nursing home in Your Home Area. Cover will not commence more than twenty
four (24) hours prior to booked departure time or cease more than twenty four (24) hours after
booked return Home"
Insurance wording doesn't take account of the more modern, more casual means of travelling. For example the BMC mentions "booked" times. What if you just pitch up at the tunnel?
TBH I think the insurance companies want us to be honest with them.
I'm saying this because there is no eveidence apart from my passport that I went to my apartment in Les Arcs in July.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@johnE, Didn't you buy anything on a card in Les Arcs (re my earlier post on proof), buy fuel en route?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@johnE, they assume people fly and book hotels or package deals and that they will have proof of travel. Passports were never stamped going into the EU/Schengen until recently anyway. I know from experience how difficult it was when hubby had his accident in France. We were driving but hubby needed to come home by plane before we were originally due to return. One son accompanied him, the other came home by car with me and the dog. Computer said no on a number of occasions, such as curtailment of my own holiday to care for hubby after major surgery, and for sons even though they had no transport home without me there to drive them back. I was even asked on 6 occasions to provide an invoice for my accommodation (our own apartment) so they could refund the costs, but they wouldn't pay for a night in a hotel room (Ibis) close to hospital for the son who was accompanying him home at 7am in the morning. I had to provide all sorts of evidence of length of stay including tunnel booking references and dates of travel before they would even consider the claim. We were all on the same insurance policy, one under 19 and one as a dependent student.
Eurotunnel should be able to provide documentation when you booked, even if it was on the day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Further to the discussion above, and the novel suggestion that off-piste in France means outside the "resort boundaries" (whatever they are) or that off piste rescue is free, I'm linking this old thread about the sad case of two snowboarders who died in Tignes, leaving a big helicopter bill for their unsuccessful rescue. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=17456
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Origen, If you are referring to my posts I wish you would read them more carefully. I said rescue outside resort boundaries was free with no reference to off piste. You then link a report where it is probable that the snowboarders were within resort boundaries.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@holidayloverxx, Yes, but the euro bank account card is shared between my wife and me. Credit Agricole only issue one card per account. It does not record who actually used it. The crossing booking was also in my wife's name. My name didn't appear on anything, but I do have witnesses who saw me in France and, of course, stamps in my passport if I need an alibi 
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@johnE, you wife would need to have provided Advance Passenger information to whoever your crossing was booked with.
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@johnE, The credit card company will know which card was used - they have different security codes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pateman99 wrote: |
| @Origen, If you are referring to my posts I wish you would read them more carefully. I said rescue outside resort boundaries was free with no reference to off piste. You then link a report where it is probable that the snowboarders were within resort boundaries. |
What pistes are outside of resort boundaries then? I'm struggling with the concept that if someone needs rescue outside of resort boundaries how that isn't off piste
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@Hells Bells, Indeed she did but there is no actual check that you did the journey. It just makes travel through passport control easier.
@holidayloverxx, Indeed they would know exactly which card was used, but there is only actually one physical card. Sometimes my wife uses it, sometimes me, and my son swipes it over the reader at the toll booths.
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