 Poster: A snowHead
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Hoping to try it for a special birthday treat!
Anyone done it? Day trip or full on lodge experience?
When do you book, most places seem to be full for 24/25 but not showing availability for 25/26?
And how on earth do you fly to Canada from Scotland in less than 16 hours these days?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Does it need to be Canada?
Plenty of great cat skiing operations in Europe and even Japan which will work out at a similar price point
Food for thought
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We did 10 days in Revelstoke about 8 years ago, plus 1 day of cat skiing. We stayed in Revelstoke town which was brilliant, with lots of restaurant choices, and a cinema. It's a proper town with non-ski and tourist businesses, absolutely great, loved it. We flew to Calgary and picked up a hire car, we used an MPV because it's just easier to chuck everything in the back to drive the 1.5 miles to the lifts each morning. Watch your speed I got pulled over twice for being over the 20mph speed limit near the school.
We booked Cat Skiing via the Revelstoke website link, very easy. It was postponed for 1 day due to adverse conditions/weather, but happened the following day. Fat Skis, and beacons provided. The guides were excellent, knowledgeable/professional. Left punctually, a pretty short trip to the cat ski area for the day.
Cat journey to the ski area (Mount Carter) was quite short. Cat is waiting at the bottom of each run to take you to the next run, eat lunch between run, masses of powder and decent-length runs. It is a lovely mix of terrain trees, cliffs, and open bowls. full on day with the travel between runs the only lax time.
Overall a massively fun day.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
Hoping to try it for a special birthday treat!
Anyone done it? Day trip or full on lodge experience?
When do you book, most places seem to be full for 24/25 but not showing availability for 25/26?
And how on earth do you fly to Canada from Scotland in less than 16 hours these days? |
Residential lodges are probably booked out already but you could get day places still now or standby when you are in location. Big Red cats and Fernie Wilderness Adventures probably the easiest near resorts. I have friends that speak highly of Mustang and Valhalla but they may be multiday.
Re flights. Saw a couple of Westjet planes when I was at EDI recently.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
| Anyone done it? ... |
I kind of worked for a BC cat operator - owned by borders - for a couple of decades. I've no commercial connexion with any cat or heli operator today. And my old organisation is no longer boarder run.
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| Day trip or full on lodge experience? |
1 lodge
If you're going boarding to a lodge, and want cat not heli, then Island Lake Lodge is the obvious place, and that's a wait-list job. Read the terms and conditions carefully and bide your time. Craig's memorial is there, but Craig also used to visit Blue River for the heli. Other operators exist, but look closely at where they are, and what they sell. If you want a "lodge" you probably don't want one where "day visitors" come in and out all the time, even if you don't have to ride with them, it's not a "lodge experience", more like a bus station. If you buy a single seat you're likely to be mostly riding with skiers, all of whom will assume you're a numpty. Your job is to show them how wrong they are.
With a lodge you're going to get a generally higher ability level (people commit for more days, tend to be able to know they can ride them), and the guides have more time to "group" you effectively, so more experienced folk may get more from it. I've not been to ILL, but I rode Northern Escape's cats one day and that experience was like slightly slower heli, significantly more "back country" than a resort-based cat operator can be.
2 day trip
Puts you with generally less committed folk, some of whom may not be able to make one single turn in powder. That's manageable with cats ... but they're not going to take a cat somewhere with [say] big forest if it contains folk whose ability can't be honestly assessed. You might get stuck or lost, so you'll be taken to the sort of terrain the operator feels comfortable with the risk you represent.
Most day trip guests I met would volunteer that they just had "their best day ever", so the product was something I was very comfortable with. A few percent of people think they'd be better on AK spines. They don't have fun, but I never came across one of those who could actually ride outside their imagination.
With a day trip the entire safety orientation time comes out of your day; with a lodge it's something you do once a week. That said, in a cat they can do most of the orientation whilst you're riding up. Find out how much vertical (or "how many runs" and typical run length) from the operator. Talk to the operations manager ahead of time and make sure they know your *actual* ability; modesty or false modesty are your enemies. Ask them if they rent/ loan gear, and make sure you either use their stuff or have something similar. Do not ignore their advice: they want you to have a great day. If you're at any time unhappy, say so politely there and then. You can expect to ride tracks on a run out or "transport" into a run, but most of the run should be untracked powder - that's what you're paying for.
My personal view: if you're doing "daily" stuff, cat is a better experience and a better day than heli. For back country stuff, the best of ILL and NE is I think similar to heli, but it's slower than heli. If you can afford it, heli wins.
If you're comparing costs, look closely at the run count, what's included and what's excluded. Typically you'll get safety gear included, but may need to pay extra for rentals and photographs (and almost everyone buys the photographs). Cost wise, aside from the odd "boutique" operator, it's much of a muchness. The more you buy the less it costs, small doses are expensive per vertical meter. Cats are cheaper. Stormy weather is more likely to ground helicopters; lack of snow more likely to affect cats.
booking
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| When do you book, most places seem to be full for 24/25 but not showing availability for 25/26? ... |
Check their cancellation terms, it matters. Lodges and day trips work a bit differently. You can likely book resort based day cats for the coming season now.
Lodge based operators - ILL and CMH (heli) for example tend to have a high portion of repeat bookings, and typically are always "sold out". ILL has a formal "wait list" system, other operators you need to talk to the folk and get on their list. It's easier if they know you are universally compatible, by which I mean: not rude or unsafe and not incompetent.
Daily cat operators have to to close when they're tracked out. In extremis operators will heli people over tracked snow to reach "the goods", but that's very rare. Day operators where the "snow machine" doesn't fire for a few days have to cancel people. That's why cat operators are in places like Whistler where the machine is regular. Maybe 50% of people will be cancelled out by the operator - they cancel on you. Therefore: book a day towards the start of a resort visit, because if you get cancelled, they may be able to re-schedule you. Do not book the last day as half the time it won't happen.
Any operator wants you to sign up as soon as possible. But if you're going (say) to Whistler and you know when already, you might as well book. My own company never discounted late availability seats - it undermines the business model. There are a few exceptions - you can still get "standby" flights at Blue River (Mike Wiegeli heli)... the catch being it's three hours from anywhere and you may not get a seat. And you don't control who you fly with in that case.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wow, that's a lot of info, thanks all.
Only ever considered Canada but for no particular reason. Japan might be worth a look I guess but still drawn to the Rockies - went to Fernie many years ago and loved it.
Lodge is definitely the dream so sounds like I need to get in touch and be patient. ILL looks great and driveable from Calgary!
From what I've heard it's pretty easy to fly there in summer but not many flights in winter, I miss Fly Zoom.
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With your name I assume you're good with driving in blizzards, but if you're not I wouldn't try driving from Calgary to BC
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Yeah love a wee drive in the snow, tends to stick to stuff a lot less in BC than Scotland though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| scottishandy wrote: |
Wow, that's a lot of info, thanks all.
Only ever considered Canada but for no particular reason. Japan might be worth a look I guess but still drawn to the Rockies - went to Fernie many years ago and loved it.
Lodge is definitely the dream so sounds like I need to get in touch and be patient. ILL looks great and driveable from Calgary!
From what I've heard it's pretty easy to fly there in summer but not many flights in winter, I miss Fly Zoom. |
If it's Canada, then I went with these guys their first two years of operation back at the start of the 2000s.
It was an excellent experience both times. They have tree terrain for low vis days plus high alpine terrain when it's bluebird.
Not showing much availability except for early on
https://chattercreek.ca/cat-skiing-availability-2024-2025/
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Hey, cat skiing sounds epic! Book a lodge early, and don't forget about Europe or Japan. Good luck!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Mike Pow and I have had so much fun in Turkey over the last three seasons - a real adventure (in a good way), masses of snow, and easier/cheaper/different to Canada. See Turkeysnowcats.com for one of the options. Report of that coming up in Fall-Line mag fairly soon. Or google Ovit for cat/sled/touring.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Check out white grizzly. A really authentic good outfit
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| Quote: |
Check out white grizzly. A really authentic good outfit
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Looks amazing, but not easy to get there!
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm a bit late to the party but have cat skied with three Canadian operations:
1. Chatter Creek, near Golden - We did 3 nights in their wilderness lodge, accessed by helicopter. Fantastic lodge, great skiing but missed one day and one night as the heli couldn't fly. Wouldn't use them again as no recompense, no apology and not so much as a free drink. It was terrible to be stuck in Golden BC (effectively up the Creek...) while effectively paying for an additional night and extra day's skiing for the guests who were stuck at the lodge. As a result, I can't recommend them.
2. Mustang Powder, near Revelstoke - 3 nights in their wilderness lodge. It was accessed by snowcat when we went, but now (I think) is accessed by heli. Great lodge, fantastic food, great skiing, great set up. Highly recommended.
3. Fernie Wilderness Adventures - 5 days' skiing on 2 separate visits. Mainly a day skiing set up, but accommodation available. We just did day trips (2+3). Very good value, great skiing, great set up and very enthusiastic guides. Another highly recommended operation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
I'm a bit late to the party but have cat skied with three Canadian operations:
1. Chatter Creek, near Golden - We did 3 nights in their wilderness lodge, accessed by helicopter. Fantastic lodge, great skiing but missed one day and one night as the heli couldn't fly. Wouldn't use them again as no recompense, no apology and not so much as a free drink. It was terrible to be stuck in Golden BC (effectively up the Creek...) while effectively paying for an additional night and extra day's skiing for the guests who were stuck at the lodge. As a result, I can't recommend them.
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I can‘t help but notice the irony. Cat skiing is less expensive than heli skiing because…no heli! But to have to use heli to access the lodge seems to negate the advantage. Also, some people choose cat over heli for the weather-proof of cats. But again, needing a heli to get to the cat defeat that purpose.
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2. Mustang Powder, near Revelstoke - 3 nights in their wilderness lodge. It was accessed by snowcat when we went, but now (I think) is accessed by heli.
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Same problem?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| wiigman wrote: |
| Mike Pow and I have had so much fun in Turkey over the last three seasons - a real adventure (in a good way), masses of snow, and easier/cheaper/different to Canada. See Turkeysnowcats.com for one of the options. Report of that coming up in Fall-Line mag fairly soon. Or google Ovit for cat/sled/touring. |
Also Kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, and I assume there is some cat options in Georgia too. Seat in the cat this year including guide (and I think maybe even lunch too) is $120 per day in Kyrgyzstan, so some excellent value to be had.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
| ... I can‘t help but notice the irony. Cat skiing is less expensive than heli skiing because…no heli! But to have to use heli to access the lodge seems to negate the advantage. Also, some people choose cat over heli for the weather-proof of cats. But again, needing a heli to get to the cat defeat that purpose. ... |
I think in truth the main "purpose" for cats is cost. They can work in a broader weather range, but they're sufficiently slower so you're still going to get less vertical per elapsed day any way you look at it. And see below for some "the cats are down" scenarios.
There are quite a few "fly in" lodges, including some of CMH's and some ski touring ones such as the one in the book about Craig (which is a good read, also has bits on various other BC operators). If they had a lot of hassle with it, they'd have a back up I expect.
My own cat/heli operator was resort located so mostly daily business. Our refunds were 100% in cash if we cancelled on guests. I once rode the cat to the top of the mountain, did the safety briefings, the whole thing, and dropped into "leg breaker snow"... we turned around, drove back down the mountain, then fully refund everyone. All of whom lost about 4 hours of their lives and one ski day for which we did not pay. But they did not break their legs on run #1. It's also not uncommon for a resort based cat operator to be cancelled if there's been no fresh snow for a while. You have to build cat roads, so you're more limited in where you can ride, and no one wants to pay to ride tracks, so cancellation is the only solution. Actually one year of persistently low snowfall ... we used heli to fly guests over the tracked out stuff into a more remote area where we'd stashed the cats.... those lucky guests got a [short] free heli flight. That's less likely happen with a "lodge based" outfit I expect as they'd need to build enough roads to cope with any anticipated drought to maintain their business.
Everyone's happier when it snows all night and the sun shines all day, but weather isn't like that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A long time ago (seems like a lifetime ago) I spent a week at Monashee Cat Skiing. They're a lodge operation and the lodge is in the middle of their terrain. It was a fantastic week. Of course the snow was unbelieveable and the terrain gave so many options. The access to lodge is by a ~1hr snowmobile ride - so they're completely out in the wilderness. They still have a hot tub though. the food was great and the on-site masseur was excellent and sorted out my stiff neck in one session.
I've just Googled and found they are still operating. Whether it's the same team as when I was there or things operate in the same way I couldn't say. But they were very professional and of course they left the 'glory run' through fire damaged forest for the last run of the week - just to pull us back again. https://www.monasheepowder.com/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Philhitch - Thanks for alerting me to Monashee, my son has just moved to a school near Kelowna, so visiting him and having a boys trip has suddenly become a lot more appealing.
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FAQ
