 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’m though boss though innit 
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I'd say it's really down to the individual child.
Some like the structure/meeting others their own age and making friends/being away from their parents and siblings for a bit/etc. For those, well keep it going as long as you can as happy child == happy holiday!
Others hate the structure and being 'in school' when they are meant to be on holiday from school/have just out-grown what ski school can offer/etc. For those, don't force them into it as again happy child == happy holiday.
From the sound of it I'd probably still push the younger one towards ski school but offer the elder one a choice - either ski school or ski with parent plus a couple of private lessons to keep her imporving (and which you/your wife could share to improve your skiing too).
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Sounds like the elder would benefit from a "freeride"/club ski type teenagers group rather than the standard kids lesson progression through badges. If she outskis you & dad she might have more fun with them.
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Never. The style and nature of tuition just evolves. It's not a binary call.
Mine started out 80% skiing with instructors, 20% with us. i.e. like a lot of kids they'd do some version of ski lessons, then ski a bit with us.
The balance started to shift after they'd both got to around Bronze Fleche in ESF (i.e. completed all the normal ski lessons, got their Etoile d'or badges, and done a season of racing). Then they'd do more and more skiing with us. This also fitted with them getting older and fitter, and able to handle a few hours hard skiing.
Now they are both teens and have race coaching once or twice a week in the UK. In the alps they'll mainly ski with us, but sometimes some/all of us take an instructor or a guide.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mine still have lessons, albeit we've shifted to a couple of private lessons, rather than group lessons, as they've got older. They've all skied since they were 2 years old and, to echo what @Dave of the Marmottes, has said above, the elder two (18 & 15) have been having freeride lessons more recently, which has given them a whole new set of skills.
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I'd let the 12 year old choose. If the 6 year old is "wayward" in that he doesn't obey orders I'd insist he did lessons till he did!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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HI, It's a question. It would be good to know a bit more about the indoor skiing really. The skiing they have done in the alps is not much at all. But what does the instructor in the UK say? Also not really sure about the standard needed for the team the 6 yr old is going for. Biut indoor is not outdoor and being able to ski in all conditions isn't something that you will learn in a fridge. But you might well get to have a generally good style, on top of your skis etc- which goes a long way.
It is very difficult to have enough lessons really. I think lessons are very important to avoid ending up as a 'British skier' and perhaps lots of us stopped getting lessons far too early. I did. But then I started again. Our kids all went up to Gold classes (youngest didn't get it though but he was v small and young at the time). The eldest then went and did the Race group until he started to telemark when he was about 11.
Morning lessons for kids are a pain- especially the rushing back to get them bit. But it is also difficult to herd your kids safely when they are boys and want to go quickly. But I think it is necessary if they are to ski properly in all conditions, otherwise they won't really develop and will probably start to build in bad habits, again like lots of us did. Teaching then now while they are laying down muscle memory is great. Even if they do stuff inside.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@v1cky24, Are you having a holiday or providing childcare? If it feels like the latter, then lessons are the way ahead, at least for part of the day. At the school I work with, we have a "Young Guns" group for more advanced young skiers and that seems to keep most 12-16 yr olds entertained. For the 6 year old, he'll moan and whinge but if he's in the appropriate class in the mornings, then at least Mum and Dad get a bit of peace for half the day.
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I don't see why a six year old should be expected to moan and whinge. If one of mine threatened to do so on a ski trip there would have been consequences. Kids are not allowed to shoot ahead in ski school. One of my granddaughters was threatened with being confined to the apartment next day if she did it again and she knew her father meant it. So she didn't, because she loves skiing. I don't believe in letting kids dictate but the holiday is theirs, too. Has to be a balance!
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You know it makes sense.
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So I think my husband quite likes this adult only time we get on a morning. The earlier holidays we did had kids in a crèche all afternoon after skiing in the morning so we only really get a few hours to ourselves.
Last year, has really put him off as we went to L2A and dropped kids, stood in a queue for 35 mins, took an age to get up the mountain /sat in queues then had 1-2 runs and had to come back down to the bottom to collect them. We barely did any skiing in the mornings.
My daughter is of a reasonable standard. She went places with the instructor last year that even we didn’t venture to. She’s not a concern about safety or keeping up for the places we are likely to ski. Yes, she could probably still benefit from lessons but she complains a fair bit about them. The freestyle thing might be an answer.
The little one won’t be able to ski all day and I think we are the sorts of people who like to go far and wide etc. ski as many km as possible in the day. He skied with us x2 afternoons and then asked to go into the kids club in the afternoon to make snowmen and do treasure hunts - we’ve sorted out the accommodation so that is still an option if he wants to do that.
He’s a reasonable standard for a 6 year old I’d say for the exposure to skiing he’s had. He will gravitate towards jumps etc when made up in castleford. I still think he should be in lessons probably.
Just trying to work out what the best thing to do is 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Depends on the kids, the ski school and what the aim of the holiday is.
If they want to become good skiers, they need to keep learning. If they are already good skiers, are the lessons more about childcare, or progression?
Ours stopped lessons when they decided they were getting nothing more from them, and would prefer to be with us. Now the oldest is faster than me, and the youngest can keep up. Somewhere around 13 or so. They'll turn 18 and 16 this season.
I'd not have a 6 year old outside of ski school unless they were fully able to navigate the mountain on their own, and were mature enough to cope if they became separated from the group in bad weather. That makes it unlikely before about 11-12 for me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Soon I hope, its costing me a packet.
But seriously, they (14 & 18 ) started off with group lesson but of late have been having private lessons as they (certainly the 18 year old) had got to a standard where they are happy with their skiing and just brush up on things or focus on some aspects.
So the group lessons stopped for each a few years in, certainly by 8/9 or so.
The private lessons are more expensive on the face of it but offer much greater focus and skiing time per £ and flexibility with time/drop off especially when with a truly independent instructor rather than a school.
I think the privates brought them up far more quickly to a standard where they can ski with us, seeing as the 18 skis better/faster than me maybe too much so , I need the lessons now !
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 6-09-24 21:18; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's no way that the 6 YO shouldn't be in ski school. If you were qualified instructors who knew what you were doing leading a 6 YO around a mountain then fair enough but you clearly aren't so leave it to those that are qualified.
The 12 YO is more complicated. It's a balance between your "free time" with your husband and her happiness. Sounds like she's more than good enough to ski with you so maybe there's more family bonding value in allowing her to do that and feel like an adult for a bit. Might well change when she gets a bit older and doesn't want to be a teenager "forced" to ski with her uncool parents so I think I'd make the most of it now.
One other consideration; from your other posts I know you're going to Les Menuires. LM is the most French area of the 3Vs and there are no Brit ski schools. Make sure you pick one where the majority of students are likely to also be holiday makers rather than French nationals so the lesson will be fully taught in English and your 6 YO has a better chance of making friends. My gut feeling is that Oxygene would be your best bet but there may be others and I'd recommend starting another thread to ask for recommendations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| v1cky24 wrote: |
| Je suis un skieur - you wouldn’t take a 6 YO at all skiing? That would be a bit sad for him. He loves skiing with us (albeit for short periods) not skiing at all with him is a bit of a step too far but I agree he probably still needs lessons. |
I'm not sure where you've drawn that conclusion from. I didn't say the 6 YO shouldn't be skiing, I said he shouldn't ONLY be skiing with you. Of course you should ski as a family in the afternoon after his lessons but there is no way IMO that he should be skiing with you all day.
You're not qualified and you have no experience or knowledge of what exercises will help a 6 YO develop. Not to mention that if you did know what those exercises were, it effectively means that the entire family has to ski at a 6 YO's pace for the entire day. How is that a holiday? You said that you like to ski "far and wide"; that won't be happening with a 6 YO. I can guarantee that if your 12 YO is capable of skiing blacks she isn't going to be happy about skiing benign blues and greens all day because that's all her 6 YO brother can ski. You'll all be bored out of your brains and it's a recipe for disaster.
You've already said that his sister is good for her age and better than you but you've also said that she has twice the mountain experience that the 6 YO has. So on simple logic alone, why would you deny the 6 YO the same level of instructed experience that has so clearly benefited his sister? Let him learn new skills in the morning in the proper environment and have fun in the afternoon with his mum, dad and sister, who won't mind skiing at a slower pace for a bit because they've already been hooning around on their own in the morning.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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12 year old should ideally still be in lessons if you aren’t skiing blacks. Kids that age don’t want to ski with their parents pootling blues and reds. If she really does prefer to be with you get a couple of privates to keep her accessing more challenging bits of the mountain and improving (but a week of lessons really is the best opportunity to keep her exposed to a range of conditions while in lesson format). 6 yo needs lessons, it’s a no brainer.
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There's no way that the 6 YO shouldn't be in ski school. If you were qualified instructors who knew what you were doing leading a 6 YO around a mountain then fair enough but you clearly aren't so leave it to those that are qualified.
^^ - it was this bit @je suis un skieur
We are not qualified to lead our son round the mountain I think you put?? Or it read that way to me.
I do like to complete a risk assessment in my head before he comes out with us for safety purposes so we do not put him in danger. Which clearly means afternoon curtailment of what we usually do. I wouldn’t say we weren’t able to take him out though? He wouldn’t tolerate an all day lesson anyway likely. He’d be exhausted. Maybe next year.
I was hoping he will come on some going to lions, though clearly that’s only going to develop him so far on the limited slope conditions indoor. I want him to be a good skier and confident. Tilly would probably also benefit from more lessons - my main point of this is - do I give her a choice or not? which boils down to what sort of parent you are I suppose right
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| v1cky24 wrote: |
| Last year, has really put (my husband) off as we went to L2A and dropped kids, stood in a queue for 35 mins, took an age to get up the mountain /sat in queues then had 1-2 runs and had to come back down to the bottom to collect them. We barely did any skiing in the mornings. |
Well that's not so much an issue with your children being in ski school as either picking the wrong ski school or the wrong resort.
I've not done L2A myself but have done a number or resorts and any where you have limited/only a single practical first lift and where ski school meets at the bottom tend to be like that - so try a different resort where you're not tied to a single first lift, or a different ski school that meets at the top of the lift.
The other thing is to study the piste map and look for "the roads less travelled". I was in Morzine with friends/children in bottom-of-the-lift-meet ski school for Feb half term a couple of years ago and the adult skiing would have been really limited if we'd just followed the hurd (15 min queue for Pleney gondola, up Pleney, ski 10m, 15 min queue for Belvedere chair, along Belvedere, actually start skiing). But I know the PdS quite well so while stuck by ski school with queue for Pleney/up Pleney I knew/the map shows if you look at it you can cut right before Belvedere and ski over to the Nyon area, via the empty Pre Favre chair.
OK, there might not be a similar option in L2A or whatever resort you go to this year but the routes you want to take for peak week are often different to the ones you'd take a non-peak one.
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We generally had our kids in half day ski school, skiing with us the other half I would guess up until age about 11-12.
After that they largely had privates, but we were with another family and privates split four ways were often cheaper than four individual lessons for a week and allowed a greater flexibility from ski school hours.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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After five years (2yrs ski school and 3 years private)when they could pretty well outski me on piste and were just getting more interested in off piste
days.
It was their decision, to spend more time with us all skiing as a group. Although part of me was willing to push them further, I appreciate that
they both have their own drives and desires, and it would be inappropriate of me to try and fulfil my desires through the my kids. And it is important to have fun.
Daughter did go on a couple of years late to Instructor in Austria via SIA (I think), but my son is by far the better and more accomplished alround skier.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think from our experience 12yo should be with you now. 6yo lessons am then family pm - it might be a bit painful (and scary if you have a cannonball kid like we did!) but in two seasons it’ll be just brilliant all skiing together- with memories to savour 
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You know it makes sense.
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My daugther ended Etoile d'Or at 8 years old and she is still "learning" with racing courses
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
There's no way that the 6 YO shouldn't be in ski school. If you were qualified instructors who knew what you were doing leading a 6 YO around a mountain then fair enough but you clearly aren't so leave it to those that are qualified.
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???
My son only skied with my wife and I (and friends) until he was 6. I'm not a qualified instructor.
He turned out to be one of the top jnr freeride skiers in North America, which I like to think was entirely down to skiing with me 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@v1cky24,
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I’m going to get an array of answers to this
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I expect you're also starting to see another law of snowHeads, which is that most of the answers are put forward as being definitively correct.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@stuarth, very cool. Another way of saying: "ski hard with people better than you and soon they won't be".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My way isn’t correct, we’re now at ten plus years of lessons, 4/5 weeks a year, for my 14 & 12 year old.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think there are several strands to this question.
1) Getting lessons/tuition/coaching in general, regardless of adults or children. There are some on the forum that go to fridges regularly, will have many weeks of lessons and/or private lessos/tuition. Some because they don't have people of similar ability to ski with, some because they are technique freaks, some because they want to continuously improve. And equally there are people that don't go to fridges and don't have any tuition in resort. Again, for various reasons - including the obvious one, that they are happy doing what they do.
2) In addition to 1 you have the parenting question. Without wishing to get into what is a sensitive area, some parents wish to make arrangements for their children, whilst they go out and ski as normal. Some parents want to spend as much time as possible with their children and ski with them. And obviously you have the middle ground. And of course this could change over time i.e., some parents may have their children taken care of when young and then ski with them when they are a bit older.
3) Group dynamics. Even within an adult group there is a question of who skis with who. I've had arrangements were a group of say 8 would split into two or three groups to ski together. And it's even possible to change day on day.
To the OP: you mention your husband is anxious about skiing with the kids but you don't say how you feel about it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@doddsie,
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My way isn’t correct
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There's correct and correct: your way might be super-correct for the kids, less so for your finances. In other words, there are numerous ways to skin this cat, as also per Layne above!
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Replying to the original question, he’s never stopped really even though he’s 23 and has been working winter seasons instructing. He’s done ski lessons/kids club when younger, ski lessons morning/ski with us afternoons, the Austrian all day lessons, joint lessons with us, trips with us and no lessons, race team coaching in the U.K., race training camps in the mountains, VI guide camps and now every instructing course he does has an element that involves fine tuning his own skiing.
The main thing we did was find something he enjoyed and wanted to do at that time. He probably would’ve been 9-10 and a very proficient skier by the time we had a trip where he had no lessons, but the next one if he wanted to go in lessons he would. Eventually, we weren’t good enough/more reserved and he just wanted to go in lessons with a cool young instructor and kids of his own age all day. When he started going away on training camps, we’d tag our ski trip onto that and leave him to follow the coach’s instructions.
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It's interesting to compare this discussion to the question "when should your kids stop having swimming lessons?" Some of us never have lessons, or only a few odds and ends, and can just potter around fairly safely. Some have more lessons, or teach themselves and "copy" good swimmers, and can manage a pretty stylish crawl. Some compete, and train. Then the sky's the limit. There's no right answer but if kids are to ski safely with parents then all concerned need to have some idea what they're doing. One kids can ski better than parents (and that happens all too quickly) then the key question is "why aren't the parents having lessons?". I do find it bizarre that parents who honestly have no clue, and have rarely had any lessons after their first week, insist that their kids go to ski school. "Do what I say, not what I do". Not a good example of parenting, I reckon. If parents are aware of their own incompetence, and don't feel qualified to supervise kids round the mountain, then the whole family should be in lessons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@v1cky24, just to be open and honest: our kids have skied from 3/4 years old and have never had a lesson (now 17 & 19). And that caused a bit of a stir when I mentioned it on here a decade a go. Whilst me and the wife are not instructors we were both very experienced skiers. And we prepared to give up out skiing time to teach/chaperone them. In other sports, such as swimming or gymnastics, even windsurfing, we've put them in lessons/classes. It's definitely not for most people but it was largely enjoyable and after a certain point it was just like skiing with mates. One of the advantages is that it does get over the logistics of ski school meet ups, having to come back to base, etc!
But back to your situation: I've stayed in Les Menuires quite a bit and yeah if you have a 3V pass it could be a bummer on days you want to explore the mid to outer reaches. That said you could still get over to Mont Vallon or down into the Meribel snow park in the afternoon and make use of the pass that way. One thing you could do is a split. So if the 6yo is in ski school or not, hubby (or you) could take the older on a full 3V day while the other parent stays local with the 6yo so if they get tired you can just head home. One general thing I would say is if you park thinking about your day a bit and just enjoy the time with the kids it can still be relaxing/fun for the adult. Many, me included, would often go out to try to ski the day I would normally had rather than just thinking about doing a bit of skiing alongside the kid. Not sure if that is explained well!
Hopefully some of this thread as helped!
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@v1cky24,
When they stop enjoying lessons, which is when they'll stop getting any benefit from them.
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FAQ
) ultimately they are safe and happy.
