I have been skiing for for 50+ weeks and I can ski anywhere on piste without struggling much. I am okay with moguls, icy condition and off piste (well off piste in a sense it's in the resort or in between piste but not backcountry). I'm however not very good at skiing powder. That probably is a combination of (1) that my technique isn't very solid (2) I haven't had the opportunity to ski in powder as much as other condition. I get a private lesson from time to time just to get some pointers. Anyway that's the background.
I would like to do start doing some ski touring/get a ski guide and chase some powder. However my OH isn't too keen on it so I would be doing it by myself. My questions are:
Would I be able to join a group touring lesson or get a ski guide in a group setting (e.g. with other people that I've not met)? Trying to save money here.
I have Japan specifically in mind. Would the answer to the above question change if it is Europe or North America?
Assuming there are group lessons/tours available, how good do I have to be off piste? I'm not as good off piste as on piste but I manage. I don't want to be the person dragging the group level down. For reference I have previously done a ski touring initiation session in France and didn't have any problems with it but I'm looking more for a group ski guide here so I can ski the supposedly legendary powder in Japan.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@euanovsky,
Might be worth joining the Eagles ski club as they are the premier ski-touring organisation in the UK, and run some introduction to off-piste/touring courses
This is an example from last year's program
Quote:
16 - 23 Mar Off-piste Skiing Grimentz
Graham Frost, IFMGA; Tom Saxlund BASI
Develop your off-piste skills and mountain awareness. A combination of ski coaching and guided day tours with Tom Saxlund (BASI 4) and Graham Frost (IFMGA guide). 6 full days tuition.
Using guides/professionals doesn't come cheap however, as it's their livelihood - but at least in a group setting like this the cost is spread.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@euanovsky, Japan is a fantastic place for ski touring but the guiding requirements don’t seem to be as high as in Europe and I’ve heard mixed reports of group trips. So research your guide well!
I learnt ski touring through my L1 Mountain safety instructor module. You can book in to essentially the same week as an intro to touring. Our guide/trainer for the week spends his time guiding for Chamonix Experience when he's not training ski instructors, so the same course is available in chamonix.
Choose a smaller / less busy resort which has a good snow record and easily accessible non-glaciated off-piste terrain beside the pisted runs.
Take private lessons and work on your technique both on-piste and transitioning to off-piste. The lessons will be cheaper at a less well known resort. As will everything else.
There are plenty of places in Europe which offer great off-piste powder experiences without the need to ski tour.
I'll start you with Pila in the Aosta Valley, Italy.
Here's my partner Nerys enjoying mellow, wide open, untracked, toe to ankle deep powder under sunny skies right off the lift and right beside the piste. The area also puts out right at the lift station.
Familiarity breeds comfort in skiing and you can see in the first video clip she's 'feeling her way down' traversing and doing half turns before relaxing into the flow of letting the skis run and using the snow and terrain to determine her turn shape and speed control.
The Austrian Alpine club have some good intro and base ski touring courses. as well as more advanced courses. These are open to members and non members, naturally based in Austria.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Bob, I was going to say the same thing. The AAC(UK) also has the benefit of providing you with appropriate insurance for Ski Touring as part of the membership fee. Also have a look at the "Members" Touring opportunities. These range from beginner level to advanced and would be perfect for your first touring experience.
My advice would be not to start too high or too technical. Definitely don't sign up to a Hut to Hut tour straight off. Go out and try some day tours first. I wouldn't worry about your level of skiing, most competent skiers will be fine on slopes of 30 degrees or less. Going up however will depend on your fitness levels. The only way to train for going uphill is to go uphill.
If you are based in Europe then Bavaria, Salzburgland and the Tyrol have some superb Touring infrastructure and hundreds of day tour options without the need to pay huge sums of money to stay in a resort.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I would like to endorse all the advice that folk have offered here@euanovsky, .
Ski touring and lift accessed off -piste is a learning game, take your time and most of all get some avalanche awareness training.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks - all very useful advice!
I'm not looking to go hut to hut on ski touring. I think my goal is just to be able to do a short day tour and get more comfortable skiing powder.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I'd separate the 2 goals. Skiing powder can be done by lucking out in your choice of destination and week or by stacking the deck by reference to somewhere historic stats favour like Japan. Touring is a different thing and best touring conditions may not be perfect powder. Snow stability is a thing.
No reason not to combine them but by definition if touring you will be skiing less powder vert than a lift served day if conditions permit. If building your skills getting first tracks down an untracked pitch matters less than just doing it before everything gets too set up.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Do you want to learn how to ski powder well or do you want to improve ski touring and pick up the relevant skills? Or perhaps a little of both?
I would actually say touring is not the optimum way to learn to ski powder. Mainly because the amount of vertical per day is so much lower than you could get lift served. Also the uphill can be quite fatiguing if you are not fit. Finally, touring doesn't necessarily mean great powder descents!
For learning to ski powder Japan lift served seems like the best bet. Let the lifts do the hard work so you can concentrate 100% on the skiing. Japan is about as close as you can get to guaranteed powder. Take some instruction to dial in technique.
If you want to improve ski touring some kind of ski touring focused course is your best bet. Ideally one that teaches you avalanche safety and other relevant skills rather than just "guiding" if your end goal is to be self sufficient. Just be aware if you do it in Europe or n America you might not be skiing a whole lot of (or even any!) untracked powder - it just doesn't snow that often and the obvious stuff gets skied out quick in most places.
If you just want to go touring everyday and ski powder Japan works. Also you could consider Georgia or Kyrgyzstan for something a bit more remote and perhaps cheaper. My friends company in Jyrgalan Kyrgyzstan were offering $250 per day guided ski touring for 2 people including guide and accommodation with breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Even if you pay the whole thing yourself $250 per day for a private guide and full board accommodation in a village where you can tour from your door and easily find untracked powder a week after a storm is a pretty sweet deal.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Just go heli skiing if you want to ski good powder. The economics will be different for others but a week in Japan is more expensive than 7 heli days for me.
Japan is still a lot of fun obv
Touring is also a lot of fun
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
hang11 wrote:
Just go heli skiing if you want to ski good powder. The economics will be different for others but a week in Japan is more expensive than 7 heli days for me.
I would ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE going to Japan to learn to ski tour with a passable skill level in powder (my interpretation of your words)
The touring is tough through often knee deep or deeper snow
If the conditions are great you won't see much
And you'll be falling a lot if you're already tired and not used to skiing deep powder
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
boarder2020 wrote:
For learning to ski powder Japan lift served seems like the best bet. Let the lifts do the hard work so you can concentrate 100% on the skiing. Japan is about as close as you can get to guaranteed powder. Take some instruction to dial in technique.
Agreed
Resort based skiing where you can work on technique on-piste and then transition seamlessly to off-piste without the need for hiking and/or touring
And you'd be better placed going to less frequented ski areas where the powder lasts longer
One big thing to remember, tracked powder in Japan is very different from tracked powder in Europe. It doesn't set up as quickly as in Europe so you can still have soft snow experiences crossing tracks and skiing the diamonds between tracks.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@BobinCH, I can get 7 days heli done for about $9k nz, don’t need to pay for accommodation or transport. I spent a bit more than that last time I went to Japan on flights, accommodation, car hire, couple of cat days, insurance etc etc. don’t need to pay for any of that if I stay local.
Japan is awesome, touring is also awesome, but bagging bluebird pow days in my local mountains out of a heli with a couple of mates is the easy winner in terms of awesome.
And I would say if you want to ride good powder with no pressure to chase it, then heli is the hands down best way to do it.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
There are a couple of areas that do half day or full day 'tasters' , the two that spring to min.d are Flachau in the Amande area, and Warth on the edge of Arlberg.
There may be others too
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@euanovsky, I think you would be wise to understand that touring is all about the “up” and if there’s fun on the “down” it’s a bonus
....One big thing to remember, tracked powder in Japan is very different from tracked powder in Europe. It doesn't set up as quickly as in Europe so you can still have soft snow experiences crossing tracks and skiing the diamonds between tracks.
And powder, full-stop, in Japan is very different on the whole to what you might well experience 80% of the time in Europe when skiing fresh snow!
I've seen regular Japow skiers who have not coped with the vagaries of EuroPow and have almost thrown their rattle out of the pram, and likewise I've taken skiers who had only ever tried to ski EuroPow to Japan and by the end of the week they were skiing thigh deep without any issues, and then once back to Europe they've stuck to the piste
Another option is to do Slack Country in Europe, take touring gear to a resort and if the snow is good drop off the back down a visible safe line <20% put some turns in and then skin back up, I've introduced a number of people to ski-touring like this.
On the whole 20 yrs or so ago ski-touring was very much biased towards Spring skiing, which tends to be a lot safer, it's only been in the last 15-20 yrs years that it's evolved more into a discipline to ski powder and that brings with it many more issues as have been alluded to already.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 1-09-24 19:34; edited 1 time in total
Agree with what a few have said hear already. Keep your learning to ski offpiste/powder and your touring separate. Learn to ski in all conditions FIRST, then start touring. This will make you safer when you start touring,and will let you actually learn to ski. You just can't get enough turns in a day touring to really improve your skiing. I known its the "cool" thing now to say "I only tour", but those folks trying to learn to ski that way are really letting themselves down.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Ski touring is less of a thing in Japan because there is just so much powder accessible from the top of a ski lift that there is little need to go further afield. Throughout January and early February snowfall is as reliable as it gets, and the light, dry consistency is incomparable with anything I've experienced elsewhere. The resorts are like playgrounds where most of the mountain is fair game, so that you can usually find untracked powder even in the busier resorts. Niseko and Furano operate backcountry gates which allow experienced riders to access deep powder which tracks back down to the bottom of the lifts. Rusutsu is also amazing for off-piste.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
