 Poster: A snowHead
|
Heya SH's. We're into the second year of the "New" Boa system for ski boots. If we can avoid talking about the traditional Boa systems that would be helpful. We at my shop have bought in fairly heavily this year. Boa boots probably count for 30% of our DH/Freeride range. I'm interested now to see how the idea has been absorbed, accepted or refuted by the "market" and you guys here are possibly a good representation of the "market" i would say.
PROS:
You'll get more choice, alot of this years new offerings are exclusively with Boa, if you want to take advantage of these technologies, you'll have no choice.
It makes a clicking noise, you might like it.
You can genuinely feel the micro adjustments over and around your foot.
It's more simple to service, than broken buckles. IMO
CONS:
You pay for it, on average it's 50 euros more expensive with it, than with a version with 2 Buckles.
"CLIC-OTINE" you'll become addicted, "clickity, clickity, click, fzzzzzzzzzz, clickity, clickity, click, fzzzzzzzz." It's mind numbing you can't stop pi$$ing around with it, and forget you can counter turn it to loosen, thus you'll need to reapply the tension with many many rotations. Being in a 'bin with friends whom have only a phone with which to ignore you is so last year!
It makes a clicking noise, you might hate it.
So, personally i've tried maybe 10 of the boots with Boa, several days each, and i don't mind it, nor want it. The noise drives me nuts (Look at me!). I didn't see the benefit, on any of them, i was constantly playing with it, only for the reason that i could.
However, there is an after sales product that make these boots work like nothing else. I will go into more details what that is on another post at a later date. This post is just to gauge how the "market" you guys feel about the offer in it's second year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
For me it’s neither a big positive, nor a big negative. I’m happy with a traditional 4-clip boot, and I’m guessing I’d be happy with a Boa boot, subject to one slight concern: whether my very high insteps will be accommodated by the Boa system, both when putting on boots and when tightening them. I often ski with clip-2 completely undone, until recently when Colin fitted some extra length clips to allow the boots to be buckled without overly tightening over the instep. I also have to open the clog quite wide to squeeze my hobbit shaped feet in to the boots, so I’m hoping that if my choice of boot (Lange RS130 Wide) starts using the Boa system it’s not going to wreck something which currently works well for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@rob@rar, Hello Sir, Instep height is not an issue, no more or less than a buckled boot, again it'll depend on the technician's approach to the problem, rather than the Boa being this issue. Lange are messing around with it, their own version and BOA, not sure if or when you'll get it on the RS anytime soon.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Haven't used the system on ski boots but quite like it's flexibility on cycling shoes.
However the biggest worry for ski boots is breakage or failure, particularly in the backcountry or when ski-touring.
Interesting article here...
https://www.powder.com/gear-locker/breaking-down-new-boa
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@geoffers, I hoped we'd be able to ignore the old Boa system, this is completely different in durability and practicality. Thanks for the link though, i tend to try avoid such articles.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Guess without ever having tried it I'm still sceptical that it's not all sizzle and no steak.
- overall crapness and failure of old Boa on bike shoes and snowboard boots.
- BS application of Boa to everything else , gloves really?
- I clip up the clog clips once and I'm good for the day. Try not to tension instep clip at all - just leads to foot problems. Zippies do the job.
- Extra money for something not asked for by the market.
- Marketing led reduction in consumer choice. Doubt many stores will carry Boa and non Boa versions in the same shell so tough cheddar boyo you're paying the premium.
- Hassle factor if it breaks. I know I've seen the videos but this season was only the first of beta testing with paying punters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
overall crapness and failure of old Boa on bike shoes and snowboard boots
|
Not an issue, we wouldn't be this far if it were comparable. I simply wouldn't have them in the shop.
| Quote: |
BS application of Boa to everything else , gloves really?
|
Agreed, however this actually does a job, very well, the question is did we need a new system?
| Quote: |
I clip up the clog clips once and I'm good for the day. Try not to tension instep clip at all - just leads to foot problems. Zippies do the job.
|
Subjective
| Quote: |
Extra money for something not asked for by the market.
|
I'll spend it wisely, on my boy's happiness.
| Quote: |
Marketing led reduction in consumer choice. Doubt many stores will carry Boa and non Boa versions in the same shell so tough cheddar boyo you're paying the premium.
|
Agreed, however, I offer premium service and premium product. Alot of what i want to sell comes as Boa only. There's a few that don't, and I would prefer they did for simplicity.
| Quote: |
Hassle factor if it breaks. I know I've seen the videos but this season was only the first of beta testing with paying punters.
|
No more or less than a buckle, in fact i'd say if pushed, more likely with a buckle. We've put them to the test, trust me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I bought new boots last season. They don’t have BOA because the shop only stocked the men’s version. My boyfriend bought those because they were more expensive and therefore more betterer and he’s a sucker for that kind of talk. I wish mine had it too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I'm not sure if would offer me anything over a standard clip system given that, most of the time, they only serve to keep snow out of the clog.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I needed new touring boots last season, and I intentionally went for the BOA version of the Hawk Prime 130s. (Which I think is pretty much the same boot @Scarlet is referring to that her BF has)
For me, I have a pair of Head Raptor RS 140 fitted at Solutions4Feet for all piste skiing, and these have the traditional 4 clip system.
I've had BOA shoes in the past for cycling and golf, so I knew what to expect, including the clicking noise etc, I just fancied seeing how they were for ski boots.
Tbh, I barely notice any difference vs a traditional boot. I'm neither pro nor anti. If I went for some new piste boots and they were BOA then fine, if they were traditional, also fine, it really makes very little difference to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| CH2O wrote: |
| Quote: |
overall crapness and failure of old Boa on bike shoes and snowboard boots
|
Not an issue, we wouldn't be this far if it were comparable. I simply wouldn't have them in the shop.
| Quote: |
BS application of Boa to everything else , gloves really?
|
Agreed, however this actually does a job, very well, the question is did we need a new system?
|
Well it's quite something. Take a product that was generally known for its bit shittness and suddenly dominate a market segment without any customer demand for it.
I'm sure it will be fine but like gripwalk I"ll try to resist as long as possible.
Oh and BTW some of the initial launch was appalling - K2 saying they could fit multiple foot widths from a single shell was scary as hell.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Honestly the exact method of closure is probably at the bottom of my list of considerations when boot shopping. Totally ambivalent either way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@clarky999, I suspect that's the case for most.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
No matter how tight I dial BOA up, they always come loose within a few turns (soft boots).
I just dont see why they are needed in a ski boot, unless someone got weird feet and need the extra anchors.
BOA gives a lifetime guarantee. Tell them it failed & they will send you a new one to fit. I now have spare BOA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
No matter how tight I dial BOA up, they always come loose within a few turns (soft boots).
|
The new version exclusively on ski boots, or the standard one that's been around for years?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I was in a pair of Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130 BOA last season and thought the BOA was great. It pulled the shell together more evenly than clips and did not create any wear points on the shell.
My previous freetouring boots (Lange XT3) the buckles were thin metal to try and save weight and this basically created a saw blade that cut into the shell as the boot flexed. After ten days use the buckles created a groove in the shell that was getting deeper and deeper. Lange refused to warranty on what was an obvious design flaw due to poor positioning of the clips.
The BOA system seemed solid and no issues after 20 plus days use. Dont think they are any more likely to break than a standard clip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| CH2O wrote: |
| Quote: |
No matter how tight I dial BOA up, they always come loose within a few turns (soft boots).
|
The new version exclusively on ski boots, or the standard one that's been around for years? |
23/24 season double BOA step-on's - I dont ski often, so hire when I do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
23/24 season double BOA step-on's - I dont ski often, so hire when I do.
|
Snowboard boots? Completely different device if so.
I see that the "public" are clearly not aware that this Ski Boot BOA system is a completely remodeled product on the same principal. Most of the skepticism seems based around that premise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@snowrider, Never heard that issue on Lange buckles though either, we sell literally hundreds each year. I'd on face value, based on that fact be curious enough to stand with Lange on that.
The Atomic Hawx XTD Boa was defo the pick of the bunch last winter, followed by K2, the rest we're not worth it IMO, too high volume shells, and picked for the "vague" range that is "Race" style, high performance, low precision. A white elephant in our world. Atomic have jumped all over BOA this winter, which is fine, no more. Salomon have a blinding product with it too.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 26-08-24 13:27; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| CH2O wrote: |
| Quote: |
23/24 season double BOA step-on's - I dont ski often, so hire when I do.
|
Snowboard boots? Completely different device if so.
I see that the "public" are clearly not aware that this Ski Boot BOA system is a completely remodeled product on the same principal. Most of the skepticism seems based around that premise. |
Previous experience is BOA biggest problem. People have mixed experiences with them. Also, while BOA is quicker in snowboard boots compared to laces, I do wonder if it is quicker than buckling up ski boots. Fiddly & possibly the need to remove a glove to grip for tightness
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
Fiddly & possibly the need to remove a glove to grip for tightness
|
Nope quite the opposite, too easy to mess around with, like a fecking "fidget" spinner, no need to remove gloves, although you probably will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Gored wrote: |
| I do wonder if it is quicker than buckling up ski boots. Fiddly & possibly the need to remove a glove to grip for tightness |
In terms of time/speed, its much of a muchness, there really isn't enough in it to take it in to consideration.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
| Honestly the exact method of closure is probably at the bottom of my list of considerations when boot shopping. Totally ambivalent either way. |
Same. I usually dont bother closing the lower buckles. Makes no difference to heel hold if the boot is fitted correctly
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@swskier, @BobinCH, So you'd have no trouble, if the boot was "optimum" buying with BOA?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@CH2O, BOA wouldn't be something I'd take in to consideration in future fittings. If the right boot for me happened to have BOA then that's what I'd buy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| CH2O wrote: |
| ...too easy to mess around with, like a fecking "fidget" spinner, no need to remove gloves, although you probably will. |
I didn't really see anyone messing with them last season. I think most people set them and forget them, same as buckles.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| CH2O wrote: |
| @swskier, @BobinCH, So you'd have no trouble, if the boot was "optimum" buying with BOA? |
Nope. My old Alien RS have BOA and it’s quite good and easy to use (when it works)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@Dave of the Marmottes, Ok, i'll try take whatever that is onboard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I wish they’d include at least 1 spare BOA assembly in the box, I know replacements are free but they take a while to come 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I wish they’d include at least 1 spare BOA assembly in the box, I know replacements are free but they take a while to come
|
It's a fairly expensive spare part to be fair, hense the price you pay for a boot with them on. I believe they, BOA and the manufacturers are hoping and have worked pretty hard to achieve is that it's highly unlikely you'll need to replace it. We've had a test model at the shop for the best part of 3 years now, i'd say we've smashed the BOA off with a heavy hammer at least 3 times a day to demonstrate the system, it's still going strong, i doubt any boot would come under that kind of regular impact in it's whole lifespan. Time will tell i guess. My opinion is that should you smash it off and need a full replacement, your primary concern would be a heli-vac and full medical insurance coverage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I’m glad you’ve said that as I’ve noticed a lot of offerings this year are BOA only, so people best get used to it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I do miss the sound of a 2,400 baud modem connecting to AOL (sigh)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| I do miss the sound of a 2,400 baud modem connecting to AOL (sigh) |
I tend to think any "let's all go back to rotary dial landlines" reverse ludditism is a bunch of crap with most consumer innovation and the better mousetraps are rare and arrive incrementally. Not with a big song and dance and price bump for marginal or nil performance gain.
I can see that Boa combined with some newer flexi plastics "might" produce a revolution in boot fit and performance for the masses without needing scarce fitter wizardry. But I doubt it's there yet.
And I still think it's the wrong focus for boot manufacturers who should have been upping their liner game given the shocking durability of most stock liners. I know Atomic have introduced their pro liners and Fischer outsourced to Zipfit. The cynic in me though says that if liners are too good the reason most people need to replace their boots disappears given shells are good for 200+ days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| And I still think it's the wrong focus for boot manufacturers who should have been upping their liner game given the shocking durability of most stock liners. I know Atomic have introduced their pro liners and Fischer outsourced to Zipfit. The cynic in me though says that if liners are too good the reason most people need to replace their boots disappears given shells are good for 200+ days. |
A tedious link I know, but in rollerblading Intuition liners (of K2/full tilt fame) introduced a specific liner a few years ago for close to £200. I cannot believe the amount of people who have bought them despite the cost, and they make shells previously unworkable for peoples feet work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BOA has been around for over 20 years, not sure why it's been used with snowboard boots & MTB shoes for many years but is only now starting to be extensively used for ski boots.
Presumably if BOA takes over the majority of the ski boot market then getting spares for a range of boots will be easier or are there different BOA systems on different boots ?
I've read that some people who (like me) who have a high instep really like the BOA system. e.g. localised pressure of conventional buckles caused numbness and cold feet through poor circulation while the BOA system spreads the pressure.
I see some footwear (eg running shoes & snowboard boots) are offered with a double BOA - is this available on ski boots ?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 27-08-24 10:03; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I'm a bit 'meh' about the BOA.
Yes, it might provide a better spread of tension around the lower foot, and maybe the top tensioner location is nearer the ankle so could provide a bit more heel hold but at the end of the day this is only the lower foot we're talking about and on a well fitted boot I'm not expecting it to make a make a major impact or be transformative.
Bur it is probably better than what we've been using up to now so I guess it is the future.
And I guess if they've convinced us on this then they've probably already won the marketing battle.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 27-08-24 10:44; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DB wrote: |
I see some footwear (eg running shoes & snowboard boots) are offered with a double BOA - is this available on ski boots ? |
I'm sure it will be - double the profit for Boa and double the mark up for retailers. My only practical observation is sometimes that it takes quite a lot of force to close cuff buckles and you want a super wide opening. Plus losing both cuff buckles at once would be considered near impossible and likely to result in a very shitty ski experience the rest of the day (if you don't have a Voile strap or 2). Losing a Cuff Boa must be more likely.
I think unfortunately Boa is inevitable at least until punters start breaking them in new and interesting ways, if the boot is the one for your foot you, after all, have limited choice. Maybe however it'll open a gap in the market for someone to stand out from the crowd by offfering clip boots at a Boa beating price.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
