Just started skiing this year and i can ski parallel and confident on japan red groomers. Have a cautious approach to black runs (ie traverse across the run parallel turning; rinse and repeat).
Mainly will be skiing on groomers. Like to ski fast on familiar groomers and dampness is helpful. Priority for next season: learn carving, ski short tree runs, learn beginner tricks
*Pls see my post below on the 80+mm options, in addition to the 3 skis mentioned here*
am looking at on-sale 2024 skis. do these fit my needs? 2 are womens ski. given my weight i think womens skis are alright?
1) Atomic maven C 86 169cm
2) line blade optic 92 168cm (more “playful” than the atomic?)
3) scott pure free 90 TI W 168cm (for advanced/expert skiers? The 2023 and 2024 versions are the same ski?)
choices are limited to the 3 above for on-sale skis
I plan to use these skis until they are unfit for use (ie not buying new skis in similar width every 2-3 seasons). A ski that allows me to progress to an advanced skier (however u define advanced) is the best (contradictory with my future non-purchase decision but want skis with the most room for progression).
Lastly, I assume look spx 12 90mm fits the 3 skis mentioned?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 25-08-24 19:59; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Do you ski more than 14 days a season? If not, don't bother. Rent a good piste performance ski each time.
Ladies skis are generally softer and often have slightly different binding heights to match female biomechanics. Stick to unisex or male skis.
Your choices are all multi-use skis (All Mountain/Free/Piste), which means they are a compromise. If you are spending 80% of your time on piste, choose a piste performance ski. It will be fine for your 20% of mucking about and help improve your skiing on steeper slopes.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If you're skiing mainly on piste I would go for something narrower at the waist - particularly if you are hoping to do more carving. A 90mm wide ski is going to be harder to transition edge to edge and will be less fun on piste than something in the 70-80mm range.
Hi @ski9,
Welcome to Snowheads.
I've never skied in Japan, but it seems to be sold on the promise of powder.
I don't know where you live, but you could be living in the States or Canada?
I'd agree with both RedandWhiteFlachau, & NoMapNoCompass...
Go to a good rental shop that allows and try a few different pairs, and when there is no new snow, take a pair of skis at about 70mm to 80mm underfoot.
These are the tools to go carving with.
Then if it looks like you are going to have a powder day tomorrow, nip into the shop before your apres ski and check out a pair of fat skis, so you can be early on the hill before the powder is all skied out.
Good Luck!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
RedandWhiteFlachau - do the slightly different binding heights make a significant difference? if it does, then both genders are disadvantaged for unisex skis since the binding height on unisex doesnt fit either gender perfectly?
i live in a country with summer 365 days/yr and i think i will ski between 14-25 days a season.
im looking at all-mountain due to its flexibility, although it is too wide for carving and too narrow for offpiste powder. purchasing multiple skis to fit for each use case isnt practical (excluding off-piste as i ski solo) due to where i live and limited ski days. or maybe i should drop the idea of learning to carve and just enjoy speeding down the slopes
will the blade optic 92 be stable at high speeds, since it is full wood?
the math checks out if i buy a discounted 2024 ski. delaying my purchase will mean spending more on rentals and the next off-season sale does not guarantee having the skis that i need. unfortunately the abovementioned 3 skis are the narrowest on sale..
I know there is a tendency to go for a sale item, but in the long term it is often better to hold out, pay a bit more and get something more appropriate to your skiing.
To clarify on the binding height, are you talking about delta/ramp angle? I won't try and re-hash as there is an excellent discussion here - http://youtube.com/v/K_rsFmskZDI
To be honest I would focus on a ski that allows you to refine and develop your technique. That isn't something that is 90mm+ based on what you have said. There is no real importance on going fast, if you start carving you will discover the pleasure is all about the forces and lines that come from stringing together beautiful turns. I would also add that carving isn't the be all and end all either, it is one tool in your quiver of skills. However a nice all-mountain ski in the range of 70-80mm is a perfect base on which to learn those skills.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ski9 wrote:
im looking at all-mountain due to its flexibility, although it is too wide for carving and too narrow for offpiste powder. purchasing multiple skis to fit for each use case isnt practical (excluding off-piste as i ski solo) due to where i live and limited ski days. or maybe i should drop the idea of learning to carve and just enjoy speeding down the slopes
This is really confusing.
You said "Mainly will be skiing on groomers" and "excluding off-piste as i ski solo" so I don't see the need for "flexibility")?
Carving wise - there are a couple of, at times very heated, discussion on carving here. But in essence you are talking about carving on piste, so you should buy a piste ski. You can carve an all mountain ski but that isn't why you would buy one.
After all it is free
After all it is free
This was the most recent thread on carving - well worth a read
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@ski9, I think @NoMapNoCompass, has answered your binding height question. Look, you asked for advice and most of us are saying the same thing.
Get a good piste performance ski and rent on powder days. My work ski is still a Rossignol Pursuit 600 which is 73mm underfoot and "designed for perfect grip on-piste." I find this the most comfortable and responsive ski when teaching on-piste and pretty good in variables. I keep trying new models every season but haven't yet found one that hits the spot. I have different skis in my quiver for when I'm touring (Black Crows) or skiing powder (Faction). They get far less use and if I didn't live in a ski resort I'd probably hire.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
So I've been thinking about your ski options and I reckon the Atomic Maven C 86 could be a great fit. It's a solid all-mountain ski that'll handle groomers and some off-piste, and it's not too wide for your current skill level. The Line Blade Optic is a bit more playful, but might be a bit too much for you right now. And the Scott Pure Free is definitely more advanced, so might be a bit of a stretch. As for bindings, the Look SPX 12 90mm should work with all three.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I'm a big Elan Wingman fan, both the 78 and 86 Ti. Great skis.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Layne wrote:
This is really confusing.
You said "Mainly will be skiing on groomers" and "excluding off-piste as i ski solo" so I don't see the need for "flexibility")?
flexibility means skiing the tree runs next to groomers.
based on the 1st post in the carving thread - if i cant learn carving i'll just stick to charging down the slopes with parallel skiing
NoMapNoCompass wrote:
I'm a big Elan Wingman fan, both the 78 and 86 Ti. Great skis.
unfortunately 2024 versions arent available
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
hi all found another shop with 80+mm skis which should be more of a "carving" ski. i think 80+mm is the thinnest i will go with due to the probability of higher snowfall in Japan and prefer more float on groomers should there be fresh snow + tree skiing next to groomers. feel free to shoot my logic down
skis are:
• Rossignol Experience W 82 / 86 Basalt (no structural difference vs mens version)
• Rossignol Experience 82 / 86 TI (solid groomer but not good for off-trail?)
• Salomon Stance 84 (similar to 2020 XDR 84 Ti that I rented?)
• Volkl Blaze 86 (more of a touring ski?)
• Atomic Maverick 88 Ti (is 161cm too short? Good for carving and performs in “off” piste but too advanced for me?)
im concerned about the softer ross exp basalt/volkl blaze but these are easier to make quick turns for trees?
Is it possible to learn skiing switch and beginner tricks on the Rossis/salomon/atomic (flatter tails vs the line blade optic 92)? Or should I buy another dedicated park ski just to learn switch/beginner tricks? + @grig919 saying line blade optic 92 is too advanced for me
a question on bindings: the online din calculator measures my DIN as 6/6.5 (170cm,60kg). the rossi exp 82/86 Ti comes with SPX14 Konect bindings (din range 5-14). will the minimum din of 5 be an issue? vs a binding with a din range of 3.5-12
thanks in advance for helping a headless chicken buying his first skis
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Maven, easily, ditch the Lines, worst made skis in the business.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CH2O wrote:
Maven, easily, ditch the Lines, worst made skis in the business.
Why are line skis bad? What about the 80+mm skis that I mentioned in the post above urs?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ski9, Wood and core quality is so varied. Effects performance and longevity. We refuse to mount them at our shop, perhaps a little radical, but knowing that so often they "fail" it wouldn't be cool to participate.
It's important to add however we've had all skis "fail", all "bindings" all "boots". (not every single one, but you hopefully understand.) However it's the regularity across all models that concerns us. As far as i can tell it's common to most skis made in the factory where Line make their skis.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@ski9, I struggle to understand what an "intermediate" ski is to be honest. I think i'm correct if i say that the manufacturers are now all aligned and have moved away from the concept of "ski ability" more now "practical" application for equipment, boots, bindings and skis. Race, Piste, All Mountain/Freeride, Free Touring, Touring, Freestyle, etc etc.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@CH20 which other brands use the same factory as Line? Are the rossignol exp basalt from the same line factories?
Reply to ur 2nd post: But there's so many ski choices are and some are "Harder to control" (eg blizzard brahma) as per reviews even though they are all-mountain skis like the "easier to control" skis
Based on my prioties in the first post, Which skis from the atomic/Salomon/rossignol/volkl list above would u recommend
which other brands use the same factory as Line? Are the rossignol exp basalt from the same line factories?
Line are made in China, not that that means China is the issue, just the quality we see from here is most often bad, or worse should we say than elsewhere. Other brands sharing that factory, therefore, tools, materials and labour are K2 and Voelkl. Bizarrely we have never had an issue with K2 skis, not one to memory, Voelkl we've seen many problems, however Voelkl also have a factory in Germany where the skis are built without fault, occasional delam' issues, but that's a problem all metal lay up skis will have due to getting good adhesive bond on alloys.
Quote:
But there's so many ski choices are and some are "Harder to control" (eg blizzard brahma) as per reviews even though they are all-mountain skis like the "easier to control" skis
That's a fairly broad topic, and would take hours and hours of data and debate. I cannot see how any ski can be built for a beginner, intermediate or otherwise. There are too many variables in play to be able to precisely attribute the ski is at fault. It's been an issue i've taken up and debated with the manufacturers for many years, we seem to finally have arrived at the point where they, the manufacturers are selling for "intended" use. What is true to the rule, rather than the exception is the lower down the ability spectrum you are, the less likely you are to spend a higher amount of money. Now that is a marketing nightmare, the manufacturers are not going to overtly say, hey, "intermediate skier, we've made a poor quality ski for your budget." it's offensive and rather presumptive. What has been sold and manufactured for years are poor quality skis, in a scale of poor to excellent and sold to you as "best for your ability". Unfortunately the skience doesn't stack up. This is now becoming common knowledge, due in part to the internet and people like me for example dispelling these nonsense myths. I accept and understand people have a certain amount of money to spend, however would rather see them buy a high quality expensive, consistent product on sale online than buying something cheap, inconsistent and needing to be replaced in a short time at full price. At my store we sell skis at cost, as a package only. However this is to encourage skiers to buy quality, and not cheap, marketed nonsense.
Quote:
Based on my prioties in the first post, Which skis from the atomic/Salomon/rossignol/volkl list above would u recommend
I would never recommend you a brand to be honest, i couldn't careless, and at the high end they're all fantastic. The only important detail is length, width and radius. When i mention a ski by brand, it's only for identification purposes. What i'd be recommending would be the best made ski for purpose, at the right length, the right width with the correct theoretical radius and at what i could find at the best price. I'm aware of the production cycles, the construction methods and the provenance of most skis, so that's where i'm anchored when recommending skis. When i spit out a brand and model, that's where i'm coming from, however that vocab is incidental in most cases.
I own a pair of Atomic Maverick 88 Ti in 176cm, I think i still have it anyway. Amazing ski, i'm using a "Veteran's" race ski these days, so she doesn't get out much, hense why i say "i think" because i possibly sold her on last winter.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ski9 wrote:
im looking at all-mountain due to its flexibility, although it is too wide for carving and too narrow for offpiste powder..
My ski quiver ranges from 67, 76, 95 & 110mm skis, all sub 16.5m radius 170 -180cm
The best ones for carving are the 110s I think because the large front & rear rockers mean they ski like a much shorter ski and the edge has much greater pressure per cm & cuts into the hard piste more than the " longer" skis
@CH20 do u think the Atomic maven C 86 169cm or Atomic maverick 88 Ti 161cm will fit my needs better? since u recommended maven above.
is the maverick 88 Ti 161cm too short for my height (170)?
@tangowaggon is there some sort of formula to estimate how 110s for ur weight is equivalent to 85s for a 60kg weight?
does this same logic apply to powder skis? ie a 120s powder ski for ur weight = 90+ to 100 for 60kg
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Poster: A snowHead
