 Poster: A snowHead
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Please could you share your experiences of ski instructor courses in Canada?
My daughter is a UK BASI L1 indoor instructor and is keen to head abroad to take the next steps in the 25/26 season.
There seems to be various options available L1/2 courses L2 courses (possibly), apprenticeships, internships, "guaranteed jobs" and so on. I'm pretty supportive of her re-doing a combined L1/2 course, as I'm sure doing the L1 again (especially a different curriculum) can only be a good thing. Although that's extra cost of course. Or she could one one of those BASI L2s in Europe and head out to Canada fully qualified.
So a fair bit for us to think about. It would be great to hear your experiences to give some context.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You don't give much of a clue as to her skiing level. The combined L1/2 gap-year type courses generally assume just a few weeks skiing and the first half (at least) of them is really focussed on personal skiing development. If she's already a really good skier, and having done the L1 implies at least some way up that hill, it may be a waste of money to go on that type of thing, instead just do the standard BASI 2-week course, which while it includes personal performance is much more about adapting to the BASI way and about teaching.
It's about comparing a two-month course with a two week one, so even if she need a little more to start with, going for a pre L2 week or two with one of the more known British ski schools in France (e.g. Snoworks, Warren Smith, BASS) will be a lot cheaper and potentially more useful. These guys are mostly BASI trainers in their own right so are ideally suited for the task.
Oh, and although the L2 might allow her to work in Canada it should not be confused with "fully qualified". There's a very long journey ahead of her before she gets to that stage, and most young people realise that the time and cost involved, compared to the potential long-term income, is just not viable, so don't pursue their dreams to that level once they've done a season or three.
(ETA: Sorry, no idea about courses in Canada as per thread title).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Assuming she's the right age just get a work visa for Canada and go and work in a resort and she can do the training as she works. There's really no need to do a "course" for CSIA L1 for a BASI L1, just take the exam course.
Then if she's working at a ski school she'll just end up doing L2+ for professional development.
One wrinkle if that there's a bit of a People's Front of Judea thing going on with Canadian instruction as a bunch of senior trainers particularly in the West have done the Splitters thing and formed the PSIC. So that might dominate certain ski schools in time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I understand that you can complete CSIA courses in Andorra.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The BASI L2 is actually "just" an 8 day course, unless she needs loads of development work I'd just book onto one of those pre-Xmas then if she passes you can look into jobs outside of the EU unless she is lucky enough to have an EU passport Note she'll need the 35 hours shadowing that she needed to get her L1 PLUS another 35 before the L2 starts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Assuming she's the right age just get a work visa for Canada and go and work in a resort and she can do the training as she works. There's really no need to do a "course" for CSIA L1 for a BASI L1, just take the exam course.
Then if she's working at a ski school she'll just end up doing L2+ for professional development. |
This
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I'm very much of the opinion that generally these "gap year" courses are a waste of money.
By UK BASI L1 indoor instructor I think this is just the L1 BASI right? Get her to do a L2 course next season perhaps? Then with that in hand and a working holiday visa (if she's under 30) then she can get a a job somewhere in Canada and have no need for further exams and expensive gap year courses.
Another option that might be easier for her is, convert to IASI, you can then do the L2 split in Part A and Part B. Part A can be done in 2 days in the UK and Part B will just require a 4 day course in the alps.
This is working on the assumption she's at the standard of a L2 already.
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@AntonAusTirol, I did a CSIA level 1 at Lake Lousie about 10 years ago.
It was only a 4 day course and didnt cost much and it was fun.
I had no intention of becoming an instructor, I just did it to help my skiing.
There were a few gap year lads doing it, but its really all about helping the resort ski school.
L1 puts a lot of emphasis on how to give parents of children having ski lessons the sort of feedback they want to hear, to keep the children in ski school.
She will have a great time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| swskier wrote: |
I'm very much of the opinion that generally these "gap year" courses are a waste of money.
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I assume you've never actually done one.
For many people these courses offer a good progression from confident intermediate to career instructor. My OH was exactly at this level when she did CSIA level 1 and 2 with Nonstop Ski in Fernie a while back. It was a great experience, and it led to a job in a Swiss ski school which she has had ever since, along with Swiss residency.
Hardly a waste of money, rather the opposite.
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@DrLawn, @swskier, Like DrLawn I did the CSIS level 1 course in a week in Sunshine village followed by the Level 2 In Zermat a couple of years later. As swskier says those course's that charge thousand of pounds for 6/8/10 courses are really for the very rich or those who are starting from scratch. If your daughter already has a good amount of experience, which you seem to imply, contact the CSIA direct and look to do their courses in Canada. Then if she has a WHV she will have no problem securing a role there. Being a ski instructor will not line her pockets but should be fun for a season or two.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
I'm very much of the opinion that generally these "gap year" courses are a waste of money.
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I assume you've never actually done one.
For many people these courses offer a good progression from confident intermediate to career instructor. My OH was exactly at this level when she did CSIA level 1 and 2 with Nonstop Ski in Fernie a while back. It was a great experience, and it led to a job in a Swiss ski school which she has had ever since, along with Swiss residency.
Hardly a waste of money, rather the opposite. |
Doesn't it all come down to the person? I was in Fernie for the winter the first season Nonstop started and while it provides a good product with experienced coaches ( in fact I suspect it's the main revenue centre for Fernie ski school) it's also an expensive way to go about things as you're effectively paying for friends and to have everything sorted for you.
I rather get the impression that L1 courses are for those who can't really ski to be bootcamped to a standard.
As your Mrs went through it care to tell us how many weeks of ski instruction work it took to get payback on the Nonstop costs? Even in CH where the mighty CHF crushes all.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I came to the conclusion for not alot more money i could do a 7 month season in Banff instead of a nonstop 10 week course. I just booked my casi L1 and L2 direct. If she has basi L1 probaly dont need casi 1, may as well just book a basi L2 courses. Canadian qualification is a bit limited and i think its only Canada,Andorra and as mentioned before Switzerland, i worked for a company called Viamonde a few weeks over couple of seasons teaching uk teenagers from international schools, it was great.
This was all nearly 18 years ago now however  .
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
I'm very much of the opinion that generally these "gap year" courses are a waste of money.
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I assume you've never actually done one.
For many people these courses offer a good progression from confident intermediate to career instructor. My OH was exactly at this level when she did CSIA level 1 and 2 with Nonstop Ski in Fernie a while back. It was a great experience, and it led to a job in a Swiss ski school which she has had ever since, along with Swiss residency.
Hardly a waste of money, rather the opposite. |
Correct I haven't done one, instead, I just did exams and training weeks off my own back, i've almost finished the L3 now for less than a gap year course would cost. Probably a couple thousand less than the cost of the course.
I'm not suggesting the outcome of the course is a waste, just the amount it costs to do it.
A L1 and L2 exam fee is only £675 each, and the L1 can be done indoors with potentially no accomodation costs. A week of accommodation, lift pass, travel etc to somewhere like Hintertux for a L2 will cost in the region of £1.5k, so for less than £3k you've got the same as what Non Stop will charge you just shy of £9k for. Ok there's training with Non Stop, but you can self fund a fair amount of training to reach the level with the £6k you've got left over.
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You know it makes sense.
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As an aside,
I would argue that for a skier/snowboarder aged under 30 of average academic standard considering a general degree course in the UK an instructor course provides a better return on investment than 1-3 years in higher education.
If you put your mind to it and work hard one could easily do a
training course in Canada
followed by a season working in NZ
back to Canada to work for a season
followed by a season in Australia
If you can't get back in to Canada then it's off to Japan
In the same time it takes to complete a university education one could be at Level 3 standard with 4 seasons of experience under their belt
And more importantly debt free
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Even better to train to be a plumber
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
As your Mrs went through it care to tell us how many weeks of ski instruction work it took to get payback on the Nonstop costs? Even in CH where the mighty CHF crushes all. |
That's a good question. As I remember it the course cost CAD9000, plus flights of course. As a newbie instructor you have no regular customers so most of your work is kids during school holidays. To be honest I'd say it took almost a whole season to get all the costs back. Subsequent seasons of course become more lucrative, so there’s a real return on investment starting at the beginning of the second season.
| swskier wrote: |
Correct I haven't done one, instead, I just did exams and training weeks off my own back, i've almost finished the L3 now for less than a gap year course would cost. Probably a couple thousand less than the cost of the course.
I'm not suggesting the outcome of the course is a waste, just the amount it costs to do it.
A L1 and L2 exam fee is only £675 each, and the L1 can be done indoors with potentially no accomodation costs. A week of accommodation, lift pass, travel etc to somewhere like Hintertux for a L2 will cost in the region of £1.5k, so for less than £3k you've got the same as what Non Stop will charge you just shy of £9k for. Ok there's training with Non Stop, but you can self fund a fair amount of training to reach the level with the £6k you've got left over. |
That sounds fine if your only goal is to get the qualifications, but I suspect the majority of people opting for a Nonstop type course are looking for rather more. My wife found it a very good all-round experience, for example she got to do stuff like cat-skiing which I've not seen offered in the Alps (or at least not in our neck of the woods).
I guess it depends what you’re looking for. The Nonstop model of a completely pre-packaged offering is clearly attractive as they’ve been going for years now. There were 77 people on my wife’s course, and she reckons that less than a quarter of them intended to actually work in the industry. So the average Nonstop candidate is probably not pursuing the same goal as you are. Good luck with the L3!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| abc wrote: |
| Even better to train to be a plumber |
Train to be a train driver - 56K/yr in Scotland, more in the south, plus benefits. Or work in the signalling - 70K / yr.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 22-07-24 15:24; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@AntonAusTirol, my daughter went to Whistler Nov 2022, with her BASI 1. She had c 5 years experience teaching on dry slope here in Glasgow. When she first arrived she got groups of kids 5-8 years old then sat here Canadian level 2, most of which refunded by the ski school. She simultaneously starting getting involved in adaptive and done her level 1 with that. Last season she done her adaptive levels 2 and 3 again most of which refunded by ski school. Her visa runs out this year but the ski school are sponsoring her visa and she's staying on to help with the Invictus Games.
She got friendly with an English girl who came over with no teaching experience and had hardly skied. She done her Canadian exams at start of season and was teaching groups of young kids.
Downside is getting accomodation (certainly in Whistler)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@boabski, wow impressive
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@davidof, cheers. I would say she takes after her dad but that's waaaaay off the mark 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| . . Train to be a train driver - 56K/yr in Scotland, more in the south, plus benefits. Or work in the signalling - 70K / yr. |
yeah the helicopters are full of public transport workers and plumbers. Not.
There may be some work for plumbers in resorts, but you'd have to compete with locals and the training will be marginally specific. The train runs through blue river, but I've never met any rail workers there
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
Correct I haven't done one, instead, I just did exams and training weeks off my own back, i've almost finished the L3 now for less than a gap year course would cost. Probably a couple thousand less than the cost of the course.
I'm not suggesting the outcome of the course is a waste, just the amount it costs to do it.
A L1 and L2 exam fee is only £675 each, and the L1 can be done indoors with potentially no accomodation costs. A week of accommodation, lift pass, travel etc to somewhere like Hintertux for a L2 will cost in the region of £1.5k, so for less than £3k you've got the same as what Non Stop will charge you just shy of £9k for. Ok there's training with Non Stop, but you can self fund a fair amount of training to reach the level with the £6k you've got left over. |
That sounds fine if your only goal is to get the qualifications, but I suspect the majority of people opting for a Nonstop type course are looking for rather more. My wife found it a very good all-round experience, for example she got to do stuff like cat-skiing which I've not seen offered in the Alps (or at least not in our neck of the woods).
I guess it depends what you’re looking for. The Nonstop model of a completely pre-packaged offering is clearly attractive as they’ve been going for years now. There were 77 people on my wife’s course, and she reckons that less than a quarter of them intended to actually work in the industry. So the average Nonstop candidate is probably not pursuing the same goal as you are. Good luck with the L3! |
Agreed horses for courses for sure. I know people that have done the Gap Year route and really enjoyed it, one of which went on to full L4 BASI status. Likewise I've also seen many that have gone down the same route as myself.
It just seemed for the OPs daughter, as she already has a L1, a gap year course feels a bit pointless as the first half will just be repeating what they've already done. Alternatively they spend 1 week in the Autumn on a glacier in Europe and have their L2 sorted ready to go and teach. (assuming they're at the L2 standard)
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My stepson did his BASI 1 a few years ago just as Covid struck. He managed to get his shadowing hours in eventually once everything opened up. He then did CSIA 2 in Andorra mostly because I live in Andorra. He’s worked the past 2 winters instructing in Andorra. Last week he flew out to Argentina to spend the winter there. Not to work but to be a ski bum (his Spanish isn’t good enough) - most of his instructor mates in Andorra work in Argentina too so he has loads of places to stay. In between seasons he works as a tree surgeon (fully qualified) in the U.K. He’s young and making the most of having no commitments.
Interestingly, in Andorra he’s graded as a level 1 for pay. They don’t think CSIA is as thorough as their own system or that of France, Argentina or Chile (most of his South American mates are L1 in their systems). I think BASI L2 is graded as level 1 too. If she’s interested in working in Andorra, she’d pretty much be guaranteed a job with a CSIA L2.
https://instructor-academy.com/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@AntonAusTirol, An expert skier already working as an instructor would probably not get that much out of a L1/L2 gap course, if your daughter is already at this standard I'd look at going directly to an autumn sitting of the L2 exam/assessment.
After passing the L2 there are L3 gap/nonstop courses. If you like the idea of a gap course the L3 courses would be a better fit for someone that is already at L2 level.
I did an early season gap year type course a few years ago.
It seems to me that the L1/L2 gap year courses are best suited to people that need to improve their own skiing to reach the L1 and L2 standard. Most people on the course were at the "intermediate plateau" at the start (myself included). Much of the time early on was spent relearning basics and getting to a better technical base. There were a few people that were already of a higher standard and they probably didn't really need to be there for most of the first half of the course.
The course was geared up for younger people away from home for the first time, I felt that this was valuable to the youngsters because it was a safe bubble where they could be independent but there was the support of the organisers the whole time to make sure everything was ok. As an older person I didn't need this but it might be a consideration.
At times it felt like a long ski holiday with slightly more intense lessons and a few exams mixed in.
I'd say the gap year courses are good if:
The money is not a problem
You want the extra support for being away from home for the first time
You want something fun and relaxed where there is plenty of time to enjoy yourself without much pressure
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@AntonAusTirol, one thing my daughter was saying is that lots of folk stayed on last year for their second year. She reckons there might be a drop in instructors this year. All to do with the post COVID timings - for example once Australia opened up there was a mass influx of Aussie instructors. This year should probably see a normal influx which should make it easier for those with BASI 1
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FAQ
