French resorts VS Austrian & Italian

A snowHead

Hello,

I am considering ski trips in Austria or Italy next season, just for a change. I have always booked French resorts.

Can anyone tell me if there are any major differences to consider such as accommodation options, travel, resort facilities/size, pistes and cost?

Or more generally what it is like skiing in Austria/Italy compared to France?

Thanks.

A snowHead

Some folk get a little worked up about the merits.
1) There is huge variety within all countries and particularly France though often when people refer to French resorts they think of the large purpose built domains.
2) You can get most accommodation options in many places though catered chalets area lot less common. B&B's and hotels are more common in Austria and Italy.
3) Travel to any of the areas is hardly difficult though trains from the UK are trickier the further East you go and the further parts of Austria and Italy probably involve slightly longer drives.
4) Size and cost are both highly variable and vary more within a country than between countries. FWIW I have generally found the smaller French resorts the cheapest option but the larger ones particularly the more fashionable like Courchevel and ValD'Isere can be very expensive.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Or more generally what it is like skiing in Austria/Italy compared to France?

generally...

Food in Italien is for me much better than France. Austria? difficult to say.
Slope preparation also better (South Tirol makes probably the best i have ever seen)
Prices ? depends...some resorts are as expensive as in France, other not.
Crowd? i think in Austria the well known resorts are more crowded in during high season as in France. South Tirol also.
But that depends also where und how

The biggest different for me : most of the resorts in Austria-Italy are not purpose built. That menas they are prettier, but a ski in ski out accomodation is more expensive, and difficult to find. Using buses or car to go for skiing is usually a must with all the minus that it has, if you have kids with you (the main reason why we go to France during the last couple of years)

IF money is not a problem, and you can find accommodation you like near the lifts, and eat-drink where you want, probably you would love Austria (e.g. Lech or Obertauern, St. Anton etc) or South Tirol (Val Gardena etc etc)

Generally speaking, if i was you , i think you have to try to find something in the dolomites

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Agree you cant generalise but some thoughts on a typically "Austrian" set up

Ski in / ski out in the way it is found in France is rare. Those places that claim such are generally at the bottom of a piste, fine to ski home but usually a walk / pole to the lift in the morning. Even then there are not so many places like this most involve at least a walk or more often an efficient ski bus.

It does appear that in recent years lift & piste infrastructure has improved more in Austria than in France. The dreaded T bars are now pretty rare in most cases now fast chairs.

Apartments tend to be larger (though I believe the French rabbit hutches of my experience of 30 years ago have gone) and better appointed. The place to book is through the tourist office web site AirBnB, Booking.com generally not useful.

Catered chalets are not a thing (a few in St Anton) but half board is and usually good value with abundant choice.

There is an Austrian thing about skiing and booze, slope side apres spots stay open past lift closing time and folk (foolishly) ski down in the dark on closed pistes.

Austria used to be seen as "cheap" not sure that is true anymore certainly Arlberg, Ischgl, Serfaus etc have got a lot more expensive in recent years (often eye wateringly so).

There is the peculiarity of the "ski route" which could simply be a track through the trees, a semi pisted run or a steep mogul field. If any of these might be a problem check before you start down one.

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France v Austria, the biggest difference is service in particular in mountain restaurants, I know there are good ones in France, however in Austria we haven't had an issue our first encounter with Austrian service was in St Anton and Lech, in terms of prices Austria is cheaper , we had good example of a couple skiing with us in Saalbach who wanted to do self service but quickly realised that the cost difference if any was small and the food and drinks prices were lower. We did notice that this past season prices have take a bit of a jump in resort beer and wine seems to have jumped.

Accommodation is Pension, hotel or Self-catering, limited slope side as has been said previously there is ski out but not ski in or vv, in Saalbach there is one catered chalet Ski Miguel and some in St Anton at various price points

Skiing you don't need a car, you can even avoid taking the ski bus depending where you accommodation, the resort is fully linked the chairlifts and gondolas are very good, over in Fieberbrunn there two older cable cars but the rest has been upgraded, inn Saalbach Hinterglemm you may feel a glow when sitting down nothing to worry about its the heated seat Laughing

there are some button lifts T bars on teh nursery slopes in Hinterglemm and a T bar up at the top on an are called Seekar well worth the trouble of getting up there

Eating out, the selection of restaurants in Saalbach has been improving and there is a good variety of reasonable ones to more upmarket , good choice of apre too from classic Austin to something more sedate.

Can't comment on Italy as we have only ever skied Cervina, the food was excellent and reasonably priced

After all it is free

more or less ski in ski out in Austria you could find in Lech-Oberlech, Kühtai, Oberatuern and Saalbach Hinterglemm (i forgot it always)
Theretically in Serfaus is also ski in ski out if you are near the train stop, and if you consider the "undergrdound" as part of the lift system

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@Mjit, The other one we haven't mentioned is splitting the bill if there is group of you, never an issue in Austria , it was our waitress in St Anton who asked why we were making it so complicated to settle out bill there were 12 of us, she asked what I had then took payment .

There a still a couple of mountain restaurant in the Ski Circus were they like cash but there are over 60 and most are card or cash

@dh900 Toilets - OMG how could I not mention them, in Saalbach it's unusual to come across a bad one, you can find videos on the GB ski Club Saalbach page Laughing

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Italy has the cheapest (and best) coffee! Toofy Grin

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@dh900,
Which French resorts have you been to?

@Mjit, There is no difficulty in splitting the bill in French restaurants (I haven't tried in bars since we tend to work on the rounds system). Service is usually friendly, and I invariably end up chatting to the proprietor in English either before or after the meal. In fact the friendliness of restaurants and bars would put most places in England to shame.
My experience of restaurants in the big Austrian resorts tends to be that they are more like motorway service stations than they are in France. This is not necessarily a bad thing but different.
OK comparing Austrian skiing and French skiing my experience is:
My French skiing has been in large purpose built resorts (such as the Tarrentaise) where skiing convenience is important. My Austrian experience has been similar (places like St Anton, Soelden etc) here though they are built around small existing towns they are still large purpose built resorts. These Austrian resorts tend to rely on busses and large telepheriques to get you to the skiing. Lift queues in Austria tend to be longer than those in France. On one trip to St Anton it was over an hour to get to the skiing
In France there is a greater variety of pistes. It seems that all Austrian pistes are bashed, whereas in France there are more natur pistes where mogels are allowed to develop.
My experience in French lift passes offices is that they are prepared to discuss the conditions more and guide you to which is the best pass to buy, whereas in Austria you have to know exactly what you want and they serve you accordingly. Efficiently and formally.
The end of the ski day in France can be spent in big places with loud music and dancing girls such as the Folie Douce but most people seem to prefer a vin chaud in a more quiet bar. This type of raucous entertainment is more common in Austria. The resort bars in Les Arcs are almost deserted until about 10:00 pm.

You know it makes sense.

Until the OP tells us what he's looking for ai don't think we can give him any very sensible answers to his questions. There is such a huge variety of resorts in all three countries that very few generalisations make much sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@johnE, Dont think you are correct about "Austrian" piste bashing. It does vary from area to area but generally all pistes are groomed every night but many develop moguls during the day. In St Anton a common complaint is that some of the most popular blue pistes are heavily moguled by lunchtime. On any pistes marked as black you should be prepared to find moguls. Most areas have ski routes, the definition of which seems to vary not only from area to area but also within areas. You find simple tracks which anyone can ski (often an "easy" alternative to a steep pitch), also runs reliant on natural snow but are groomed at least to some extent and also runs which are not prepared in any way and have only minimal marking which depending on conditions can mean deep powder or moguls. It can be confusing if you dont know the area. Also no green runs which I believe are present in some French areas? Maybe the fact that many of the large French ski areas are owned by the same organisation leads to greater uniformity of piste types?

A snowHead

You can go to a lower resort Austria that France for the same historic snow fall.

1300m resort in France is like a 1000m in Austria, so don't be afraid by the quoted altitude of Austrian resorts

A snowHead

@dh900, depending on where in Austria you picked would give you a totally different experience to another location.

Austria has some purpose built ski resorts, similar to what you'd find in the well known places in France, but the majority of ski resorts are really just normal working villages/towns that have skiing attached to them. They're set up more touristy nowadays, but at the heart of them, there's people working and living normal lives.

If you like French cuisine like Raclette, Fondue etc, Austria is very different to this typically, although you'll find these options in major ski areas no doubt. Austrian cuisine is a lot heavier, think more Goulash soup, dumplings (Knödel), currywurst, schnitzel. It's also not uncommon for people to eat a dessert as a main meal at lunch either, Apple Strudel, Kaiserschmarrn and GermKnödel being the common ones.

One thing you'll notice in most places is you barely pay much more on the mountain for a beer than you would in the valley. You're not paying €8+ for a beer on the slopes like many places in France, more like €5.

There's not many places in Austria that have the mega piste distances like you would find in somewhere the 3 Valleys, Paradiski etc. In general the bigger places here are in the 150-200km of piste, however, you'll often find there's lots of smaller ski areas all quite close to each other with really good public transport, trains and buses, to access other areas. Getting around Austria is much easier than France as you're at lower altitude and there's more regular public transport as these towns and villages are full of working locals that require transport for their day to day lives. Also, due to the lower altitudes of the valleys, trains are a lot more common.

The majority of my skiing experience has been in France, until we moved to Austria last summer, so I've seen the differences quite recently. I'd say in general you're more likely to find a cheap self catered apartment in a French ski resort than you will in Austria, so you can get the initial costs of a French holiday a bit lower (flight and accomodation) but then you're more likely to spend less money once you're in Austria than in French. There are exceptions to this as people have pointed out though.

Apres ski is quite different in Austria compared to France. French apres ski music tends to be a bit more electronic/dance type music, whereas in Austria most places are really cheesy euro-pop songs, and dancing on top of tables etc.

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And on the majority of the many, many, ski resorts in France you won't find any "apres ski" dancing and you won't, thankfully, have to eat very cheese- heavy dishes if you don't want. And most are small. One generalisation which is true is that a higher proportion of accommodation in French resorts is self catered and at all price points from cheap to luxury chalets whereas Austrian resorts, even small ones, have a greater range of hotels. Two generalisations I'd hazard are that shops in both countries sell a large quantity of Alpine tat and French bread and patisserie is better than Austrian ( and FAR better than Italian) wink

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We stayed in a unit where two flats had been knocked into one, and that one wasnt exactly big. I'd have liked to see how when it was two flats worked. They would ahve been the usual little narrow bunk room, tight bathroom and a living room with a kitchenette/main bedroom

After all it is free

My observation on beer prices in France and Austria was that they were broadly similar in price but in Austria you got 33cl and in France 25cl.

Please excuse my lack of experience on Austrian resorts - I've ony been on 5 skiing trips there to 4 different resorts compared to the hundred plus to France

My wife and neice have a crêpe at the end of skiing rather than cake. Personnaly I'm not keen on sugar so have a vin chaud instead (which of course has sugar in it Embarassed

.)

@johnE, funny what you say about queues, I reckon I've queued more in France than Austria in general, even skiing in St Anton! I'd also say the St Anton lift structure is vastly superior to the big French resorts, more heated/covered chairs, more enclosed lifts in general.

For the OP I don't think you can compare "countries" as others have said what are you looking for in a resort as smaller resorts in many countries are vastly different to the huge linked areas.

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In the High Season and School Holidays, i think that Austria is more crowded and with bigger queues as France.
But this has also to do with the resort.
E.g. Arlberg area has many "entrances" so it is not so obvious. But in many resorts where you have to take the gondel to go to the main resort e.g. Sölden in High Season the queues are bigger than France.
On the other hand, indeed Austrias lift structure ist probably the best in the Alps, but because of that, sometimes there are almost zero waiting times, but the slopes are over crowded.

Generally speaking i think it is not everything "black vs white"....
Most of the resorts in France are builted with the came concept, but in Austria there are differences.

The big minus for me in Austria (although i love the country and speak the language) is that accommodation in walking distance from the lifts is too expensive for a family in the high season. And the whole thing "prepare the kids, take tha car, drive till the parking, find a place, then again prepare the kids, and walk till the ski school" after so many years, cannot take it any more....
i am too old for this XXXXXX Laughing

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@kitenski, My 2 trips to St. Anton had horredous lift queues. Typically it would start with 30 minutes at the telepherique then another 30 minutes at the next lift and 15 minutes after that. I just felt there was far too many people for the skiing infrastructure. I've never encountered that level of queues in France but the Arpette in La Plagne gets close, very close.

There may be more covered lifts in Austria but TBH this is of no concern to me though I accept that it may be important to other people. I don't really mind slow chairlifts, even the single seaters in Japan. I don't mind the T bars that still exist in Austria. I can even take the slingshots in Chile. I just don't like queuing

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@johnE, Interesting, what time of year? I tend to stay in Stuben so avoid pinch point queues in St Anton!

Queues depend crucially on WHEN you go, more than WHERE.

I've never understood why people sneer at "French rabbit hutches". Nobody is forced to rent one. There are also palatial chalets with swimming pools, cinema and spa and massage beds. Order in your own private chef. My son's cooked in a few of those and his wages alone cost a lot more than a rabbit hutch.

You know it makes sense.

@kitenski, Once over Christmas and once in early January, but not the New Year week. I agree with @turms2 about Sölden, much worse than anyhing I've experienced in France. I suppose I've just choosen the wrong resorts. Perhaps I should go to the smaller less known resorts in Austria not pushed by the British travel operators but often refered to on this forum.

Now to Italy. Iv'e been skiing there about as much as I've been to Austria.

Could be thought of as four seperate areas, the former Savoie, the former Austria with Livigno and Bormio in the middle (I have no idea if this is culturally German, Romansh, Lombard or even Italian) and the whole of the Appennines to the south

As others have said food on the mountain tends to be better than France and Austria. Coffee is excellent and served in appropiately sized cups.

Lift queues are more like France than Austria.

Pistes are bashed to death, even blacks.

Scenery in the Dolomites is outstanding.

Accommodation is largely family run hotels (mother in reception, father in kitchen, daughter doing everything else)

A few areas are known in the UK but the vast majority of resorts are largely Italian. How many of us have skied in Val di Zoldo or Selva di Cadore, Roesengarden (Carezza) or even San Martino di Castrozza in the Dolomites as opposed to perenial favourites Canazei or Wolkenstien?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

An important difference between France and Eastern Italy is the weather. The Dolomites are sheltered and are therefore more likely to be sunny and dry in a prevailing westerly or northerly airstream whilst France and western Austria may be overcast or even storm bound.
The Dolomites also tend to be a bit cooler and are much less likely to receive rain.
During early season natural snow cover will normally be much better in the French Alps but the ski runs and lifts are normally more reliable and extensive in the Dolomites. This is because of effective snow making and fewer interruptions from poor weather. The skiing is also more sheltered in the trees and easier to reach from the valley floor.

A snowHead

A snowHead

@clarky999, I despair of Austrian bread. I now stop in France en route and buy a decent Pain de Campangne for the first couple of days

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@holidayloverxx, fair enough Laughing

An Arlbergspitz from Ruetz bakeries is quite similar to that if you get desperate though

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@clarky999,

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I agree, Austria has some lovely bread.

In the Italian bakery Very Happy

My friend was discussing how she had broken her tooth right through the root. I asked “What were you eating? Rocks?” ”No, bread” Laughing

Dwarf bread, indeed.

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I would say the bakeries in German speaking areas are far better than the French ones. Supermarket bread is rubbish though. White bread is not so common and the typical white breakfast rolls (Kaisersemmel) are nothing special. I can see that not everyone gets on with the normal sourdough rye bread "doorstep" loaves though far healthier than baguettes etc (Pain de Campangne is much better). There is usually a big selection of Semmel (rolls) with various seeds etc, always a pain when someone in the huge queue on a Sunday morning stands there debating how many and of what type to order. The selection of cakes & pastries is very good and bakeries can usually be found in even small villages, decent coffee too (hate to say so but I find coffee in France poor, even UK better now!).

Italian bread is very variable some areas really good (Rome) and some really not good at all (Tuscany, completely tasteless like eating dust).

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After all it is free

Thanks all for the comments and insight, and sorry for the delay in replying.

After reading replies I think Austria will be my likley choice, possibly the Arlberg region, although resorts around Innsbruck are also appealing. Are areas in both purpose-built or just mountain towns which are now resorts?

France = best trails
Austria = best nitelife
Italy = best food

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@dh900, Arlberg is an area with several options.

Maybe check out this video

http://youtube.com/v/cv8kSNyuNSs?si=J2L8yHaWe3YcGubN

Innsbruck is a city so not sure of your question.

Help!!

French resorts VS Austrian & Italian

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