 Poster: A snowHead
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So after my first post back in January titled 1st timers I’m afraid, we had a totally fantastic week learning to ski in Flaine! We all had a blast and are all totally hooked! Biggest disappointment is why did I leave it 48 years until I tried skiing! We even got back and purchased our own boots in end of season sales!
Anyway we’re thinking ahead to 2024/25 and want to get booking. Possibly Flaine again as the ski in/out self catering accommodation suited us perfectly and we just liked it all there. Obviously there are so many places to go, and we’re open to suggestions. Family of 4, 2 adults, 2 boys second full weeks skiing, so a good improvers destination. I like the look of Montgenevre, possibly La Rosiere, Val cenis, alp d’huez………. We would also want ski school for all again, probably esf.
We will travel second week of March again, and we are looking at the possibility of a long weekend just before Xmas, say around December 20th, would this be to early in the season for decent snow? I’m sure each year is different but historically what’s it like then? It’s quite cheap just prior to Christmas rather than just after!
Thank you in advance for any suggestions!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So glad it was such a success! You could do a lot worse than go to Flaine again, now you know the ropes there.
For a long weekend you'd need to go earlier than Dec 20th to avoid getting caught up in the Christmas rush. Earlier that month Tignes would be a good destination, as it is high altitude and opens early (some resorts which would otherwise be a good bet will not be open till the weekend before Christmas, or are dodgy for snow in early season. There are lots of Snowheads who know Tignes well and could advise about suitable locations. But obviously, a long weekend will be more expensive "per hour on skis". One possibility would be to book flights to a main destination airport, then find accommodation nearer the time, when you know where the snow is. In early/mid December there should be no problem booking accommodation at the last minute.
Bear in mind that for a long weekend your only tuition option will be private lessons, more expensive, but could be good for the family if you can all share the same instructor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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First up, great that the first trip went so well and you are all sold. It's a great thing to do as a family.
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| We even got back and purchased our own boots in end of season sales! |
Slight concern. Buying boots off the shelf in the sales is generally not a great idea... unless it's for kids. For adults you are better going to a good (by recommendation) boot fitter. Everybody's feet and ankles are different and generally to get something that is comfortable all day and is good for your skiing requires customisation and a new bespoke footbed. Can't really do it with kids as they grow so fast. Anyway, what's done is done and maybe you'll get away with it, for a year or two at least.
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| Anyway we’re thinking ahead to 2024/25 and want to get booking. Possibly Flaine again as the ski in/out self catering accommodation suited us perfectly and we just liked it all there. Obviously there are so many places to go, and we’re open to suggestions. Family of 4, 2 adults, 2 boys second full weeks skiing, so a good improvers destination. I like the look of Montgenevre, possibly La Rosiere, Val cenis, alp d’huez………. |
Often a tricky one. Definitely plusses to going the same place but of course nice to try others too. As it happens although I've done most of my skiing in France I've never been anywhere in the PdS area. Been ADH which is very good. In those early weeks and if you are going second week of March then smaller resorts like the one you mentioned plus others give you enough terrain and saves some dough.
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| We would also want ski school for all again, probably esf. |
As I understand it ESF is generally not all that great although some franchises are very good. I would certainly check out other options.
| Dpetchey wrote: |
| we are looking at the possibility of a long weekend just before Xmas, say around December 20th, would this be to early in the season for decent snow? I’m sure each year is different but historically what’s it like then? It’s quite cheap just prior to Christmas rather than just after! |
We always ski at Christmas. It's hit and miss. Most decent altitude places will be open though and be fine for 2nd week skier. As Origen says Christmas week is a busy week making weekend trips a bit tricky. Weekend trips in general require a bit of careful planning in terms of flight times to maximise days skiing. And also getting accommodation. There are few threads on here discussing, Weekend before Christmas just adds another dimension.
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I agree, for the second time (week) there is nothing wrong with going back to a place you already know and love. My guess is that after that you would start to be curious about all the other resorts you have read about ... it is also fun trying new places, just check the mix of pistes (e.g. if you are happiest with blues and the occasional red you don't want somewhere where most pistes are red and black).
The long weekend is a tougher question, in December the most snow-sure resorts (like Tignes and Val Thorens assuming you stick with France) aren't the same as the ones easiest to get to when you want to maximise the ratio of ski time to travel time. @Origen's suggestion of booking the flights when cheap, and the actual resort once the weather conditions are known, is popular with experienced skiers but might be a bit stressful for secondtimers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Layne,
The boots were for the adults and we had a full fitting service from Ellis Brigham with custom footbeds etc. mine have need several alterations!
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@Dpetchey, you could add Avoriaz to your list of locations if ski in ski out was part of what made you enjoy Flaine. It's a shortish transfer from Geneva, not too much longer than Flaine is.
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@Dpetchey, cool, sorry if I sounded snotty.
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There is skiing available outside France
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Layne, hey if you hadn't already posted it I was going to as it was my initial reaction too 
@Dpetchey, after 1 week as beginners I'd be amazed if you'd 'skied out' Flaine/the Grand Massif area and as you seemed to really enjoy it I'd say go back. You don't have to learn a whole new piste map/ski school meet points/bars/restaurants/shops/etc so will hit the snow with that degree of confidence that going left of the top of chair A will put you on to a run you're familiar with/takes you to B, and that if your lesson ends up at X you can get back to where the boys' lessons end in Y minutes. That frees up a chunk of your brain to focus on your technique - and even looking up from time to time to enjoy the view!
For your early weekend that's opening week provided you go somewhere with access to skiing about around 2000m you should be fine. Even this season which was...not spectacular I was skiing every day up in Avoriaz. I think your main issue might be accomodation - Dec. 21st would be 'arrival day' for people staying Christmas week.
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Not sure of whether your long weekend has to be December. If not I would consider early Jan which is also cheap and there will be more open places and often better snow by then. Or if the school holidays I would consider Easter where you will often find better weather and better snow than Dec though obviously every year is different.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dpetchey,
Maybe consider La Plagne or Avoriaz as both have some really nice blues and loads of ski in/out accommodation although be mindful of the french school holidays.
Also be aware that skiing in mid March is different to December so maybe as beginners in might be better to stick to the spring skiing for now. That said if you do decide to go somewhere pre xmas then you might experience quieter slopes and also benefit from reduced lift pass prices. However on shorter trips always check what the transport costs are going to be as you can sometimes ending getting stung on those for just a couple of days skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Whitegoldsbrother wrote: |
| There is skiing available outside France |
There is, but ski in ski out is a lot less common than in the high purpose built resorts in France and this was particularly noted as a big plus to the OP. Also for weekend breaks, Geneva often proves the easiest/most convenient/widest range of available flights compared to the other airports serving ski areas.
OP also notes prices also, so that probably removes Switzerland.
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| Quote: |
I would consider Easter where you will often find better weather and better snow than Dec though obviously every year is different.
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Though usually true, with Easter holidays being very late in 2025 (April 20th) I do not think this will be true next season.
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You know it makes sense.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
I would consider Easter where you will often find better weather and better snow than Dec though obviously every year is different.
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Though usually true, with Easter holidays being very late in 2025 (April 20th) I do not think this will be true next season. |
Is this also true of Easter school holidays? I thought they had generally moved to beginning of April no matter when Easter itself falls? It's certainly the case locally.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@T Bar, You may be right in that UK schools no longer have Easter Holidays but have a spring holiday instead. For those of us who are not school teachers or pupils the Easter Holidays with, in my case before I retired, having Good Friday, the Bank holiday and the Tuesday off work meant we could have a long ski holiday only taking 3 days of leave.
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Poster: A snowHead
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School holidays touch Easter one way or another - but it can be the first, middle or last weekend of the two week break depending on when Easter falls.
The OP poster said "We will travel second week of March again" suggesting that they are not restricted by school holidays (could be that they are happy to take kids out of school).
I concur that a weekender in mid-Jan would open things up if the OP could do that. If going mid-Jan go somewhere with some tree skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Second week in March is probably THE optimum week in France - immediately after the 4 week "vacances d'hiver" which are crowded and expensive.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Origen wrote: |
| Second week in March is probably THE optimum week in France - immediately after the 4 week "vacances d'hiver" which are crowded and expensive. |
That's when they are going for their main week. I was mentioning possible alternatives for the second trip, the long weekend.
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Wow, lots of really helpful responses already. Thank you all.
We are ok to take the boys out of school for one week but wouldn’t like to do any more, so 1 week in March (8th-15th). We would also like to try and fit in a second break as the kids break up on the 18th December, a short break from 19th to say 23rd could work well and appears much cheaper than post Xmas.
I hadn’t considered Easter though, we could do Easter from 5th April, which might work. I guess a high snow sure resort such as Avoriaz might still work then? Is this a mega busy time? We’re keen to seek quieter slopes whilst we progress from let’s face it, beginners.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
a short break from 19th to say 23rd could work well and appears much cheaper than post Xmas.
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When you say "much cheaper" is that a package? Flights will be cheaper but that timing goes into the Christmas week - when accommodation will be expensive, and difficult to get for those odd days.
5 April would work in a high resort (maybe not Avoriaz, which is the only high place around there and could be very busy with people staying lower down. For that time I'd go to Val Thorens or Tignes.
It's difficult to predict crowds - last season was quite crowded even at times when experience would not have predicted crowds.
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@Dpetchey, I skied in early April for about 20 years when we were more restricted by school holidays. We had conditions which ranged from decent to excellent but never very poor, though some years you had to be on pretty high North facing slopes by the afternoon to retain the good conditions. Inevitably sometimes the weather can be poor but this is also true for any time of year. Personally I think the likelihood of good snow is higher in early April than pre xmas though sometimes you can obviously get excellent pre Xmas snow. The really high resorts liek Tignes and Val T can be busy in April but plenty of mid altitude resorts can very quiet and have a high chance of good snow. I remember skiing powder on piste on deserted slopes on Easter saturday in Val Cenis.
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With no issue with going March 8th - 15th I can say it was a fantastic and quiet week in Alpe D'huez this year. So much so, I'll be there in 2025 too 
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We have gone to Les Arcs almost very Easter for the last 30 or so years, even when it has been in late April and almost aways had enjoyable snow. OK in late April it has often been very hard in the morning and slush in the afternoon, but by carefully planning routes we have usually found at least a couple hours with those golden moments of 2 or 3 cm of soft snow over a firm base. We have even had good skiing on the last week of the season, which I think corresponds to the bank holiday weekend next year.
Easter Monday is a national holiday in France so there is a slight infux of people over the weekend but unless you are looking for it you would barely notice. In general it is quiet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dpetchey, As mentioned the more you drift into Christmas week the trickier it will get accommodation wise. If you can fly Wed eve and then ski Thu, Fri, Sat that could work well. Maybe even to Sunday.
April is always quiet.
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For your long early season break, have a look at flights into Innsbruck, which opens up the resorts around Innsbruck itself, plus the Zillertal. They are usually mostly fully open by then, have short transfer times (circa an hour), and glacier skiing available if snow is poor.
For March / April, Montgenevre would work for both.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| swskier wrote: |
| @Dpetchey, you could add Avoriaz to your list of locations if ski in ski out was part of what made you enjoy Flaine. It's a shortish transfer from Geneva, not too much longer than Flaine is. |
Thanks for the suggestion, looks like a great alternative!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Layne wrote: |
| @Dpetchey, cool, sorry if I sounded snotty. |
Not at all, thank you for all of your feedback 
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@Mjit,
There is know way that we have skied out all that Flaine has to offer. We were just getting into the blues towards the end of the week.
Just wondered if there are any particularly good places with long cruisy blues/greens which would be great learning/confidence building.
Thanks for the input, it does make sense to return to Flaine
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You know it makes sense.
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Yes, Heidi have some good package prices for the weekend prior to Xmas at Montgenevre@Origen,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dpetchey wrote: |
| Just wondered if there are any particularly good places with long cruisy blues/greens which would be great learning/confidence building. |
If you are thinking of your next place after Flaine, La Plagne is particularly known for its cruisy blues. Otherwise I might suggest Valmorel as somewhere strong on the blue and green runs.
Someone else may be able to say what the snow is like those places in December, we haven't been then. And either would need longer transfers than Flaine, and as I commented before on a long weekend you don't want to waste it all on travelling.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dpetchey,
Val d’Isere is fantastic for blue slope skiers. Particularly because many of the easier runs are at the top of the mountains and enable you to see the spectacular views and make the Alps such a wonderful place to be.
However, the ridiculous price of the lift pass can make this extortionate for beginner skiers who cannot make the most use of the incredible ski domain that is on offer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Saalbach has plenty of cruisey blues and a better looking town than flaine by far. Best lift system in the world. Complete different mountain experience in Austria to France. We'll worth a try
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Baron von chippy,
100% and much cheaper. Overall less commercial and very friendly. We skied there with some friends who are blue/red run skiers on January 2022 and had a fabulous time.
Thoroughly recommended.
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I don't think you can say Austria is "much cheaper". It depends how you do it. In your own apartment, very close to the slopes and ski school meeting place in Flaine, you can have snack lunches at home at supermarket prices and easy evening meals with great wine at 10 - 12 euros a bottle and cheap drinks for the kids. I don't have anything against Austria - have skied there several times - but claims that either France or Austria are "better" need to be taken with a pinch of salt. It depends what you are after. If it's affordable self-catering with the ski school within the popping distance of the cork of a Crémant de Bourgogne, France probably wins. If it's a range of good half-board hotels and the most lively apres ski, probably Austria. Both have plenty of good skiing. One consideration for the OP is that the availability of all-day ski lessons in Austria could be a plus or a minus. If it means buying lunch out for all the family every day it could work out expensive. I have no idea about "snowsureness" in Austria at Easter. Depends where you go, I suppose, like France. Neither of my Austrian ski holidays was good for snow but that's the luck of the draw wherever you go and I've had poor snow in France sometimes too.
Personally, with kids, I'd do my best to avoid anywhere where you had to get them and the whole family's gear on and off a bus.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Origen wrote: |
Personally, with kids, I'd do my best to avoid anywhere where you had to get them and the whole family's gear on and off a bus. |
Couldn't agree with this advice more
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Dpetchey,
Glad to hear that all went well and the family is hooked!
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I'd either go back to the grand massif and stay in Les Carroz or try Montgenevre or la Rosiere. The only thing I'd say about la rosiere is that you need to be confident on red runs and long drag lifts to make the most of the Italian side so maybe do Montgenevre first and la rosiere the year after. Val Cenis is ok but less cruisy than Flaine or the above. It does have a nice off the beaten track feel though and is good value all round.
I would stick with late season for now. The runs will be less busy and the piste conditions more forgiving.
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Go back to Flaine, get to a higher standard without wasting time finding out the resort basics. Then you’ll be well prepared to go anywhere else next time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
| I don't think you can say Austria is "much cheaper". It depends how you do it. |
I think you can when you make like for like comparisons.
No toll roads and cheaper fuel in Luxembourg (if you drive.)
public transport in to resorts from airports is better and cheaper.(if you self book)
super markets are cheaper(if you self cater)
ski school is cheaper(if you have kids)
Food on the mountain is cheaper
A Bier at apres is cheaper
I'm not say one is better than the other.
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Ski school prices vary a lot in France - our local ESI always seems very good value to me but I doubt you can make any overall generalisation about France versus Austria. Food and beer on the mountain is generally cheaper in Austria but neither Austria nor France can hold a candle to Italy for overall quality/price. As for supermarkets, this comparison reckons France very slightly cheaper than Austria - but basically they're the same. https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/austria/france
Lift pass prices basically the same, from what I know.
It depends what you are looking for - we all vary such a lot in our priorities and preferences. What makes the big cost difference is how you accommodate yourself (hotels far more expensive, obviously), how you eat at lunchtime (big family lunch times on the slopes are expensive wherever) and how you get there. Driving a family of four to a French resort will generally be cheaper than flying the family to Austria and taking public transport to resort. But if you can find reasonable flights and use public transport to an Austrian resort that will be cheaper than peak weekend flights to Geneva and a private taxi transfer.
I suspect that for a family looking to ski on a tight budget it's hard to beat driving to resort with some judiciously-chosen food basics and self-catering in a ski in/ski out location. If you want a top quality hotel in a beautiful location there's probably much more choice in Austria (or Switzerland). Being able to buy one tank full of petrol in Luxembourg is an irrelevance. Save the cost of a round of drinks on the mountain!
The biggest difference is probably based on whether you are forced into school holiday weeks!
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FAQ
