 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all. Would love some recommendations please! I need to be in France for work in December. I'm free from 6 December to 12 December when I fly back to Australia. My ticket home is from Geneva.
I skied (first time beginner) in Couchevel and Val d'Isere the same period last year and the snow was supposedly amazing. I also did Crans Montana in Jan, and then St Moritz and Zermatt in March (instructor in Zermatt said was at upper intermediate).
I'm wondering where to go for this trip. Need to stay close to Geneva. Is Zermatt going to best bet again for being snow sure? Or should I do French alps again? Or somewhere else?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You'll have no trouble finding accommodation at that time of the year so wait and chase the snow and what's open
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@smash, You need to wait to see what conditions are like. Last season was better than average for very early season snow. Verbier might be a good choice very easy to get to Geneva. Zermatt is often not so good pre Christmas. If you stick with Switzerland the trains are very good so getting back to Geneva is generally no big issue from most places though St Moritz is pushing it a bit.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes, definitely wait.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Verbier is usually open early December, but the extent of opening varies, depending on conditions. You’d need to wait until much closer to the time to see what they decide to do. It’s particularly easy to get to/from Geneva Airport/Verbier by train and télépherique, as the gondola from the train station in the valley at Le Chable up to the centre of Verbier is public transport, so open from ~7am to ~11pm.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Which of those resorts / countries did you prefer? You can certainly wait to book accommodation. I’m a Verbier regular and would say it opens more terrain, more quickly than the alternatives. Usually full area opens on 1st weekend in Dec. It also has very good (recently upgraded) snowmaking so gives some insurance if it’s a low snow start to the season. Val Thorens could be a good option but I doubt 3V links are open that early? Not sure about Val D/Tignes? Verbier certainly a better choice than Crans, Zermatt (best in Spring) or Chamonix in early Dec
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3V links open sat 7 dec and Tignes usually opens two weeks prior to that but can be busy with race trainees
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@smash, wait and see. It's so early season you will have total choice on accommodation (well, except places that haven't opened up yet), and it won't be expensive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@smash, there’s likely to be a snowHeads Bash in Tignes that week.
High probability of good snow. Good value accommodation and lift pass. Opportunities for lessons. Plenty of people to ski and socialise with if you want.
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The week before Christmas at Val d'sere/Tignes has been reliable snow and the best powder off piste of my last 4 seasons. Probably a chance the snow may be thinner off piste the week before, but you would just have to stay higher if so.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| smash wrote: |
Hi all. Would love some recommendations please! I need to be in France for work in December. I'm free from 6 December to 12 December when I fly back to Australia. My ticket home is from Geneva.
I skied (first time beginner) in Couchevel and Val d'Isere the same period last year and the snow was supposedly amazing. I also did Crans Montana in Jan, and then St Moritz and Zermatt in March (instructor in Zermatt said was at upper intermediate).
I'm wondering where to go for this trip. Need to stay close to Geneva. Is Zermatt going to best bet again for being snow sure? Or should I do French alps again? Or somewhere else? |
Where would you be travelling from to resort?
What sort of accommodation would you be considering?
Are the 6th & 12th travel days or ski days?
Realistically the four resorts you are looking at are Vernier, Val Thorens, Val d' Isere and Tignes (the latter two make up the Espace Killy ski area).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plus Zermatt!
But, as others suggest, you can comfortably wait. Val Thorens normally opens the last weekend in November. Links to some of the rest of the 3v might be open, but I can’t find the planned opening dates. They are most likely to be mid December.
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To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend?
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You know it makes sense.
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@sugarmoma666, depending where - Zermatt is the easiest of all. By train from the resort to Geneva airport on a regular and reliable service.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mooney058, but that's what I mean. Zermatt may be easy but some of the other suggestions aren't.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| @sugarmoma666, depending where - Zermatt is the easiest of all. By train from the resort to Geneva airport on a regular and reliable service. |
Swiss trains are excellent and reliable as you say but it’s a 4h transfer to Zermatt. Versus 2h30 to Verbier. And Verbier is a much better bet than Zermatt in December
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend? |
Realistically, the OPs options are something along the lines of:
Saas Fee
Zermatt
Verbier
Val Thorens
Val D/Tignes
All of which are accessible via a combo of public trains and buses (fairly) easily, so I'd agree with everyone to hang fire and book last minute, as it's unlikely they won't be able to get to/find somewhere to stay.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| mooney058 wrote: |
| @sugarmoma666, depending where - Zermatt is the easiest of all. By train from the resort to Geneva airport on a regular and reliable service. |
Swiss trains are excellent and reliable as you say but it’s a 4h transfer to Zermatt. Versus 2h30 to Verbier. And Verbier is a much better bet than Zermatt in December |
Not sure Zermatt is particularly easier than Verbier? For Zermatt train to Visp, change train and then up to Zermatt. For Verbier, train to Martigny, change to Le Châble then jump on the lift up to Verbier, or stay in Le Châble. Both as simple as each other, but as Bob says, much quicker to Verbier.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend? |
Not sure that its any easier arranging transport six months in advance than a few days.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend? |
Not sure that its any easier arranging transport six months in advance than a few days. |
A few days in advance you may well struggle with availability, particularly when travelling on non standard days. Of course, it's almost always possible so long as you're prepared to either throw money at it or accept it might take ages.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@swskier, of the resorts you cite, I only really know Val Thorens and Val D/Tignes. Getting to and from either from for e.g. Geneva by public transport on a weekday will be doable but could easily take ages. The train between Geneva and Moutiers takes over 3 hours. From Moutiers to Val Thorens you've then got at least 45 mins on a bus and would be lucky if it lined up well with the trains. Getting to Tignes is at least another 45 mins. Early in December, Altibus isn't generally running a full service to to resorts, particularly on weekdays.
Keen as I am on public transport, if I was looking to squeeze in a short week of skiing, I'd want to be minimizing transfer time so would likely look at options like Snowdrone to Tignes, which often books up well in advance. Or even better I'd choose a resort with good public transport links on weekdays in December.
Personally, I'd pick one of the options and get things booked up.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend? |
Not sure that its any easier arranging transport six months in advance than a few days. |
A few days in advance you may well struggle with availability, particularly when travelling on non standard days. Of course, it's almost always possible so long as you're prepared to either throw money at it or accept it might take ages. |
Well car hire at the moment is under £250 from down town Geneva so not astronomical in the overall scheme of things and cancellable if you can find a better option.
Snow conditions can vary massively in early Dec from place to place and if it was me I would rather wait.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| To all those saying it's ok to wait, I can understand that's ok for accommodation but what about arranging transport to and from your chosen resort, especially when at least one direction won't be at a weekend? |
Not sure that its any easier arranging transport six months in advance than a few days. |
A few days in advance you may well struggle with availability, particularly when travelling on non standard days. Of course, it's almost always possible so long as you're prepared to either throw money at it or accept it might take ages. |
Well car hire at the moment is under £250 from down town Geneva so not astronomical in the overall scheme of things and cancellable if you can find a better option.
Snow conditions can vary massively in early Dec from place to place and if it was me I would rather wait. |
Car hire isn't an option I consider as I'm not confident driving in the snow, as living in the south I have no call to do so. My guess is someone from Australia would be in a similar position but I could be wrong  I've been up the road to Tignes in December in conditions that I definitely wouldn't have driven in.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
Car hire isn't an option I consider as I'm not confident driving in the snow, as living in the south I have no call to do so. My guess is someone from Australia would be in a similar position but I could be wrong I've been up the road to Tignes in December in conditions that I definitely wouldn't have driven in. |
I guess only they know that and I put it out as one option. Personally I have driven from Tignes in conditions needing snow chains and don't think it's too bad (Much better roads than some in NZ which I have driven on needing chains)
Obviously massive snow fall can disrupt public transport as well as private transport. I remember being in Zermatt when not even trains were getting in and out because of avalanche danger.
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@swskier, true, never took train to Verbier so never considered it from Geneve. Train to Zermatt has an attractive feature going from Visp to Zermatt
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@mooney058, Visp up to Zermatt is stunning without doubt.
Martigny to Le Châble is a pretty decent 2nd place still! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There are a couple of trains an hour direct to/from Geneva Airport to both Martigny & Visp (same trains), then one train an hour to either Le Chable or Zermatt. Could not be easier, Swiss trains are still very reliable and comfortable. No doubt it is cheaper to book ahead but in terms of overall cost of a trip no biggie to wait. I would say Verbier is a better option for snow record and shorter journey, the cable car from the train station is the first part of the string of lifts to Mont Fort! Zermatt is a special place but not convinced that it is ideal for early season partly snow record but also mid winter storms are common, closing the link to Cervinia
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1. Zermatt
2. Verbier
3. Val d'Isere / Tignes
4. Val Thorens
5. Saas Fee
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You know it makes sense.
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@munich_irish, only been to Zermatt during a couple late October/early November Zermatt Ski Test events. Snow was aways more than adequate. Would imagine mid-Dec would be even safer.
And then you could snap pics like this
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mooney058, The issue with Zermatt is that it has a relatively dry climate as it in the rain shadow of a significant number of high mountains to its north west from where the prevailing weather systems come from. Generally (there are always exceptions) heavy snow comes from the south, this past season being a perfect example but these are far less reliable. Verbier is much more exposed to north westerly weather systems so gets more precipitation. Assuming no wind the glaciers will provide limited skiing (like in October) but more general skiing is less secure. As always climate can be defined but weather is always random!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@munich_irish, Genoa Low is a known phenomenon bringing load of precipitation. Though would not argue about the prevailing weather systems in Zermatt and or Verbier as I never looked into it. On the occasions I visited Zermatt early in the season it was always great. Skied almost to the very bottom each time
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
A few days in advance you may well struggle with availability, particularly when travelling on non standard days. Of course, it's almost always possible so long as you're prepared to either throw money at it or accept it might take ages. |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
Keen as I am on public transport, if I was looking to squeeze in a short week of skiing, I'd want to be minimizing transfer time so would likely look at options like Snowdrone to Tignes, which often books up well in advance. Or even better I'd choose a resort with good public transport links on weekdays in December.
Personally, I'd pick one of the options and get things booked up. |
Quite the opposite!
In early December, “booked up” “well in advance” could very easily ending up with poor condition in the chosen resort while a different resort has excellent snow!
Talk about “throwing money” down the drain. Or “accepting” inferior condition just to save a couple hour of transfer time! This is the lamest excuse I’ve heard to advocate “book up in advance”.
I also don’t get the aversion with a few hours of transfer. The OP is starting from Geneva. He’s got a head start over any Brits flying in from the UK. If you can stomach the 2-3 hr of flying in + ground transfer which at the minimum would take 4-5 hrs to get to resort, surely he can sit back for a 3-4 hr of train/bus journey? Besides, he has a whole week, which is pretty typical of a ski holiday for most UK skiers. I just don’t get the obsession to save minutes on transfer time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Personally, I’d vote for Zermatt. I’ve done a season-opener on the first weekend of December there for the last decade and, yes, whilst the conditions have varied year to year I’ve never been unable to ski then with most, if not all, of the resort fully open.
As has also been mentioned there is the issue of transfers; whilst the trip from Geneva to Zermatt is about 3h15m it’s a very easy journey; you get on the train directly at GVA and, after one transfer in Visp, off in the resort itself. Compared with the 3V it’s a much easier transfer despite being a bit longer (or not if traffic is bad).
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FAQ
