 Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry to start a separate thread on bindings - but WTFH dropped an aside about rental bindings in the one on testing - and I think I'd be dragging that thread OT to follow up the subject there.
| WTFH wrote: |
| .......and you have the advantage of having your own skis ...........that..... don't have big heavy rental bindings on them. |
So, what are the differences between rental and private bindings? From what WTFH wrote, they are heavier, but is this a problem? OK, they may be heavier to cart round, especially if you have to walk uphill with them. But apart from that?
Are they higher - to allow for the adjustment mechanism? If so, is that bad? Anything else to think about?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nick Zotov, Basically rental bindings have a longer range of boot size adjustment. This can be done by either having a very long rack for the heel piece, or (more commonly now) a moveable toe as well as heel piece.
The downsides are, their heavier, they have more moving parts, the mounting screws tend to be further apart - which will affect ski flex...
Compared to ordinary bindings, unless you want to share your skis with someone with a very small/large feet. (Pauses whilst everyone shouts about bindings only being adjusted by trained, qualified, technicians) .... there is reason to use rental bindings.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick Zotov, (glad to hear you're fit again btw) - not necessarily higher, but if they are the type which rely on sliding the heel piece only for boot sole length adjustment then you may not be "ideally" positioned on the ski, if you're worried about that sort of thing. (cue spyderjon?  )
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Nick Zotov, I'll try to find a link to spec sheets that will give the technical differences.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Interesting that you started this thread Nick, because I was about to start a thread on rental bindings as well. I was interested by the concept of being able to 'share' a ski between people without having to redrill etc, and have been googling around.
As far as I've been reading, the current crop of rental bindings shouldn't actually be that much heavier than the regular bindings. For example, a rental version of a Salomon 810 might only be slightly heavier I was led to believe. Of course it will affect flex.
I have been looking at several shops though, and I don't seem to be able to locate any for sale for the 'public' so to speak. Anyone know how/where rental bindings are sold, or indeed has information on the additional lift and weight added by the rental plate for the common Salomon models?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Was writing my post whilst you were writing yours. Specs and hard figures would be much appreciated 
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skibomb, if you want to buy them, look on ebay - there's normally a few pairs of skis on there with rentals on them - either shops off-loading at the end of the season, or people who have bought ex-rentals hoping to make a £ or two.
I have seen the spec sheets on a Japanese site in the past, but I can't remember the url...
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skibomb, The Atomic Neox bindings adjust both front and rear automatically when adjusting for boot sole length.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gsb wrote: |
| skibomb, The Atomic Neox bindings adjust both front and rear automatically when adjusting for boot sole length. |
...and weigh a ton
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Cheers. I'll keep a look out for some, and also further technical specs. Although I'm not quite sure how keen I'd be on a pair that had actually been used for a couple of season in an actual rental set-up - slightly apprehensive about how that would affect reliability.
Also, don't certain rental/demo bindings allow for toe as well as heel piece adjustment? In other words, would they enable changing to mountpoint on a ski depending on snow conditions. E.g. moving them more centre-mounted for certain conditions and more backwards for powder conditions etc. I have been looking at versions of the Tyrolia Railflex system as a way of achieving this, but a binding that can be shared between skiers as well as adjusted forwards/backwards (and is light, doesn't affect flex etc), would be close to ideal 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Arno, How much is a ton?  The atomic website is less than helpful in this respect...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skibomb, is there any reason why you want to share out your skis?
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You know it makes sense.
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skibomb, The Neox does have the facilty for a small adjustment to suit style/conditions.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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veeeight, Fantastic - exactly what I was looking for One website I saw selling the Neox quoted them as shipping weight of 10 pounds per pair, which would definitely rule them out...
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 20-07-06 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, Missionary zeal - wanting friends and acquaintances try decent skis
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skibomb, Vist bindings and (I believe) Line bindings are plate mounted allowing easy sharing between skis (and friends). The idea with Vist is that you only need to mount plates on all your skis and use one binding.
In addition, for those of us with a sense of fashion, Vist also come with interchangeable covers so that your bindings always match your skis aesthetically. http://www.vist.it/html/en/products_bindings.php?p=5&subp=44#sub2
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight, thanks - I saw the Salomon chart before it shrank! Not all that much weight difference, really. Though when you're an old f**t like me, every little helps. Interesting to see the DIN ranges though. Tends to back up what you'd think - that retail bindings are more likely to match your specific needs.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Murdoch, Cheers for that. I actually just bought a pair of Line Prophets, which contain the Line quickmount system. However, the Line Reactor bindings are approx 700 grammes heavier for each binding which would be a bit too much (apart from apparent issues with reliability).
Next year's Salomons look interesting (and this is slightly off-topic because I haven't seen them in a rental capacity). But apparently the Z12 will be 17% lighter than its 912 Ti equivalent, and have autmatic toe adjustment, which would be great if working.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yup I ski'd the Z12 - the biggest improvement they have made (apart from the automatic toe adjustment) is they have got rid of that stoopid spheric ball thing, and now I can actually feel the ski doing it's thing!
Re the adjustment range on the Sollys - the standard S912 has 24mm of adjustment (3 boot sizes) whilst the rental S912 has 122mm of travel/adjustment (15 boot sizes).........
I can also tell that they (demo bindings) are heavier, and also normally stand taller. I regularly ski both retail and rental versions of bindings, and it's just a matter of getting used to them.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 20-07-06 14:37; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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OK. I can do pig-ignorant. What's automatic toe adjustment?
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Nick Zotov, The Salomon bindings have a toe piece that has to be adjusted vertically for the right height for the boot, but also has horizontal adjustment for the boot in the 'wings'. Having seen my local skitech 'adjust' these for me, I would actually rather have this done by the binding itself, as in the new version, because the settings used for these wings can negate all the good work done in terms of DIN settings etc 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 20-07-06 14:44; edited 4 times in total
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| Nick Zotov wrote: |
| OK. I can do pig-ignorant. What's automatic toe adjustment? |
Certain Salomon models, you have to adjust the toe piece width, as well as the toe piece stand height to your boot. Most other manufactueres this is automatic (variable) and will automatically adjust to the boot.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, Thanks for the additional details and your experience with the Z12. I think I might have to get a pair this season....
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skibomb and veeeight, thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| skibomb wrote: |
| Arno, How much is a ton? The atomic website is less than helpful in this respect... |
The weights of the 05/06 Neox bindings are: Neox 614 = 3.19Kg, Neox 412 = 2.86Kg, Neox 3:10 = 2.71Kg. The 05/06 Neox 412 & Neox 310 bindings are 0.5Kg lighter than the 04/05 models.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| Nick Zotov wrote: |
| OK. I can do pig-ignorant. What's automatic toe adjustment? |
Certain Salomon models, you have to adjust the toe piece width, as well as the toe piece stand height to your boot. Most other manufactueres this is automatic (variable) and will automatically adjust to the boot. |
Everytime I have problems with Sally bindings, it is those damned wings.
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| jtr wrote: |
| skibomb wrote: |
| Arno, How much is a ton? The atomic website is less than helpful in this respect... |
The weights of the 05/06 Neox bindings are: Neox 614 = 3.19Kg, Neox 412 = 2.86Kg, Neox 3:10 = 2.71Kg. The 05/06 Neox 412 & Neox 310 bindings are 0.5Kg lighter than the 04/05 models. |
jtr, is that each or for the pair?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| jtr wrote: |
| skibomb wrote: |
| Arno, How much is a ton? The atomic website is less than helpful in this respect... |
The weights of the 05/06 Neox bindings are: Neox 614 = 3.19Kg, Neox 412 = 2.86Kg, Neox 3:10 = 2.71Kg. The 05/06 Neox 412 & Neox 310 bindings are 0.5Kg lighter than the 04/05 models. |
jtr, is that each or for the pair? |
WTFH, These weights are per pair.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jtr, ok, so only a couple of hundred grammes heavier than Sallies and Tyrolias.
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Poster: A snowHead
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veeeight, "and now I can actually feel the ski doing it's thing! "
Don't understand why you couldn't feel yous skis? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For me, the interface on the spheric system with the BoF immediately above the ball thing was less than satisfactory, felt like there was too much "play".
It's only subtle, but the new Z12's without the spheric ball feel much more secure and the skis more responsive edge to edge. Much more "feel" and transmission of what's going on comes through my feet.
I am still a Tyrolia kinda guy anyway.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
Don't understand why you couldn't feel yous skis? |
The S912 and S914 have a fair bit of torsional flex in both toe and heel. You do feel this when changing edges.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I just saw that the Tyrolia Railflex for the 07 season will be 15% lighter, which means that an 07 Railflex set-up (enabling on the spot forward and backward adjustment to perfect the mount point depending on snow conditions) will weigh just about the same as the current Salomon S8/S9 set-up. Sounds like a very promising possibility...
See http://www.untracked.com/highlight-176970.html
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skibomb, looks good! (not my choice though unless they are going to mount them on the SWs)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I wonder where they get their -15% in weight from, from my sheets the 05/06 Railflex LD12 is 2440g, and the 06/07 RFD12 is 2440g.
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I have test bindings on my Volkls and my wife does on her Rossy's,too we swap ( ) regularly with each other and others....the Volkls in particular weigh a lot and took me a while to get used to carrying but I moved closer to the lift and its fine now !!!!!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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One of the benefits of the Atomic Neox bindings is their almost infinite fore/aft positioning posibilities to suit a user's personal preference. Apart from when carrying there's also no difference when skiing the slightly heavier older 04/05 Neox 412's.
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If you are unweighting for some turns, rather than just trasitioning from turn to turn, I can see lighter bindings being a good thing. Weight is not a problem only when carrying skis.
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FAQ
