English language, Imogen Foulkes, first language, it is not.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This is very worrying. I read all about the Haute Route tragedy of a few years ago which I believe was exactly between Zermatt and Arolla too. In that case they got into trouble between the Dix hut and cabane des vignettes. I'm hoping this has a better outcome. The skiers this time must have heard about the previous disaster. I really hope they've been able to dig a snow hole.
Awful news. And five of them are from one family, including 3 brothers .
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Terrible
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Very sad... Blick reports that the search commander stated "[the group] did everything they could to stay alive". Same agency also states that there's no comment on the groups experience or what equipment they had with them. They had six private helicopters (resort & canton rescue) and two army looking for them, seems that they all struggled with the weather.
Makes you wonder how well prepared they were given that that the weather-front was forecast...
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Thomasski wrote:
Very sad... Blick reports that the search commander stated "[the group] did everything they could to stay alive". Same agency also states that there's no comment on the groups experience or what equipment they had with them. They had six private helicopters (resort & canton rescue) and two army looking for them, seems that they all struggled with the weather.
Makes you wonder how well prepared they were given that that the weather-front was forecast...
Very hard to understand with that weather forecast. Coming from the Valais and going up there you’d assume they were very experienced (at least the older ones) but I guess we may never know their thinking. Very sad for all the loved ones left behind. Another sobering example of how when the weather turns in the high alpine it can be deadly
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Read that Le Nouvelliste reported that a few of them were experienced mountaineers and training for the patrouille des glaciers which uses the route they were on...
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
One still missing, let's hope for a miracle.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Such a tragic end, the reports are starting to paint a bit more of a picture. A report from search lead Anjan Truffer:
“The picture we found was ugly,” said Truffer. “We saw that the ski tourers had tried to build a cave and protect themselves from the wind.” Truffer assumes that there was probably panic on site because people were scattered. The mountain rescuer believes that the incoming storm could have been fatal for the tour-goers. His conclusion: “The ski tourers froze to death at altitude, disorientated.”
Sounds like they might have left the mitigation too late and lost capacity before they could dig in... Must have been horrible.
On a sunny day or two later, the site seems surreal.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Idris wrote:
As I've said with the previous disaster (and this may upset people) . They died of being stupid!
They made a mistake. Three of them, at least, were training for the Patrouille des Glaciers race and were experienced and very fit. The suspicion I’ve heard from friends in Zermatt is that they probably thought they would reach the mountain refuge before the storm hit. So, a misjudgment rather than stupidity I think. And, personally, I’m rather disinclined to call others stupid when I’ve definitely made errors of judgement myself over the years.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Blackblade, Fronts can move unpredictably and be preceded by high winds that slow you right down, even if blowing from sort of behind. They knew that - they knew that the Foehn is brutal over those parts, and the They took a HUGE gamble given the meteo. I suspect 'object fixation' may often play a role. 'We've planned....we won't have the same practice time for the event...it's tight....but let's do it...'. Mistake. Hubris?
Idris....you've read the account of the 'two Jamies' at Chamonix? - the surviving quad amputee Jamie is a friend of a friend.
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@valais2, Know him well. Extraordinary story. He went on to pioneer some prosthetics for amputees, wrote a good book, passed his ML and does a great after dinner speech about his ordeal.
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Very sad story. I wonder how close they were to the refuge? Looking at the map probably a step too far- may have needed some further climbing hence the attempted snow cave. Given they may have been training for the race in April I suspect they dressed lightly for a route that I think the racers are supposed to complete in 6 hrs 30 to avoid getting disqualified (no idea how given the 2000m+ climb!)- I guess they had hoped to get onto the downhill stretch to Arosa (likely to be a lot quicker than uphill with skis!) before the storm hit.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Distress call at 5pm - hugely behind schedule in terms of location - ‘lightly dressed’ - equipment/hardware failure on someone in large group? That’s often a recipe for prevarication and poor decision making.
I am very confused by some details - ‘heading for Arolla’? But actually for Cabane Tete Blanche as that day’s objective? Setting off in ‘the morning’ one would know by noon as to whether pace is enough…
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Distress call at 5pm - hugely behind schedule in terms of location - ‘lightly dressed’ - equipment/hardware failure on someone in large group? That’s often a recipe for prevarication and poor decision making.
I am very confused by some details - ‘heading for Arolla’? But actually for Cabane Tete Blanche as that day’s objective? Setting off in ‘the morning’ one would know by noon as to whether pace is enough…
What a mess, so many questions that will never be answered. Did they think they would beat the weather and packed light? They ended up in the middle of a plateau, did they lose visibility to <50m before deciding to dig-in? The picture being painted is one of repeated refusal to accept they were against it.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Thomasski, Sometimes it feels prurient to immediately discuss an incident - ‘wait for the official report’…but although that’s important I really value the informed exchange of thoughts in the few days following something .. it raises my own level of awareness and thought.
We often ‘travel light and fast’ in the Alps, but only….when you know the topo and know the meteo.
Don’t know the route? Don’t skimp on gear and maintain rigorous turnaround decisions.
Dodgy meteo? Gear up, or stay home or stay low…..and maintain rigorous turnaround decisions.
Don’t know your fellows in the team? Question everything…keep a constant eye on everything…and turnaround times
Anticipate kit failure…carry gaffer, zip ties etc….and maintain rigour turnaround decisions
Oh…and know your bailing routes….
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
valais2 wrote:
@Thomasski, Sometimes it feels prurient to immediately discuss an incident - ‘wait for the official report’…but although that’s important I really value the informed exchange of thoughts in the few days following something .. it raises my own level of awareness and thought.
We often ‘travel light and fast’ in the Alps, but only….when you know the topo and know the meteo.
Don’t know the route? Don’t skimp on gear and maintain rigorous turnaround decisions.
Dodgy meteo? Gear up, or stay home or stay low…..and maintain rigorous turnaround decisions.
Don’t know your fellows in the team? Question everything…keep a constant eye on everything…and turnaround times
Anticipate kit failure…carry gaffer, zip ties etc….and maintain rigour turnaround decisions
Oh…and know your bailing routes….
I completely agree, it's so sad to hear this tragedy gets unraveled by the rescuers/canton police, everything they reveal contradicts what you'd expect from experienced mountaineers/tourers. But it's a lesson learned/reminded for us all.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
valais2 wrote:
... I am very confused by some details - ‘heading for Arolla’? But actually for Cabane Tete Blanche as that day’s objective? Setting off in ‘the morning’ one would know by noon as to whether pace is enough…
Perhaps they meant "in the direction of Arolla", or that the original target was Arolla, and they backed off to the hut?
By the time they raised a shout, it was presumably too late for them to simply descend: they needed assistance and asked for it.
As assistance couldn't get there (by air or on foot), their options were descend/ dig in/ aim for the hut.
It looks like they tried for the last, and backed off to digging in once that was the only choice left.
Presumably descent seemed harder than making the distance to the hut.
If as reported the presumably fully-clad on-foot rescue team couldn't get there, it was a dirty night.
I think talking about this type of stuff makes it less likely we'll be in those situations,
but conclusions certainly haven't been made by the authorities yet and it's all a bit confused.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
That poor family.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
valais2 wrote:
I am very confused by some details - ‘heading for Arolla’? But actually for Cabane Tete Blanche as that day’s objective? Setting off in ‘the morning’ one would know by noon as to whether pace is enough…
Maybe everything was going well until a piece of equipment failed. As far as I'm aware one person is still missing - maybe it was the missing person's equipment that failed. Maybe it wasn't posible for them to ski down after the equipment failure so they decided to head for the Cabane Tete Blanche for shelter.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 15-03-24 11:45; edited 1 time in total
I'm confused by the refereneces to the cabane Tete Blanche. There are the cabanes de Bertol and de la Dent Blanche in that area - both being several kilometers from the col de la Tete Blanche, one NW and the other NNE, but I'm not aware of this one and the Swiss Alpine Club site makes no mention of it.
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Pretty poor taste calling people stupid when friends/ family can be reading this. Perhaps need to think more before hitting their keyboards imv.
Pretty poor taste calling people stupid when friends/ family can be reading this. Perhaps need to think more before hitting their keyboards imv.
The press called it suicide. I haven't noticed anyone here conducting themselves with poor taste...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I was actually skiing in Arolla last Saturday. Around lunchtime we skied a black run from the top (~3000m) and the wind was gusting so strong at times the wind was almost blowing us backwards. We called it a day shortly after that.
This wasn't a big surprise as the forecast was for high winds, and we had added extra layers to avoid getting cold.
We can only speculate what happened to those skiers up on the Tête Blanche, but there was a fairly obvious weather situation going on.
After all it is free
After all it is free
We did attempted the HR West->East in 2017 and abandoned the trip in the north bowl of Monte Brule, heading down to Arolla abosutely gutted for not making the complete trip. In hindsight, our guide 100% made the right call. We were a few hours from the Tete Blanche...
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Group shelters may have helped ? I’ve carried them before on the few ski tours that I’ve done in the alps. They tend to be standard kit these days in the Scottish mountains. Light, compact, cheap and useful. In very strong wind, blowing snow or rain you just have to focus on getting inside where the immediate shelter will allow you to think more clearly. It takes hours to dig an effective snow shelter and that might not have been possible with flimsy shovels if the snow was frozen. It wouldn’t have been comfortable but it would have got everyone together quickly and might just have enabled their overnight survival?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sun 17-03-24 10:54; edited 1 time in total
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That video - it's interesting that MRTs find that people have kit like group shelters and haven't used them. But I can understand it. I'm not that sort of hill-walker, but I am a sailor. Never been in a really tricky situation, weather wise, but certainly been in situations where I know I am not functioning well, huddled in a corner, getting colder, can't face the thought of going down below and struggling into the high quality mid-layers I naturally have in my bag downstairs.
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Poster: A snowHead
stupid!