 Poster: A snowHead
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Apols in advance to any NHS staff / Docs / GPs on this site; this is not aimed at you personally but thought I'd share my experience . . .
Have had recurrent ear issues for many years and a build up of hard wax means I have to wear ear plugs in both the shower / swimming to ensure I don't get trapped water and an inevitable infection that is incredibly painful; especially on aircraft and at altitude. My GP has been pretty remiss on this IMO - over the last 10yrs I've had several 'attempted' annual ear syringing experiences, initially in the surgery by a nurse with ye old high pressure warm water blasting method (the NHS deemed this method too dangerous in terms of ear perforation a few yrs back so they binned it however its certainly effective) followed by the new, not so effective and more gentle method of suction; both were supported by frequent use of olive oil to soften the wax however even after 4x suctions per year for several years the now outsourced model (to spec-savers) simply never worked for me and the hard wax plugs were never defeated.
Roll on to 2024 and 3 weeks ago I had pain in my right ear; worried about my upcoming ski trip I got an appointment only to be prescribed sodium bicarbonate ear drops and be informed that the spec-savers suction service was no longer 'free' to under 55s and would be £50 a 'go' . . .I complained to my GP and told him that this had never previously worked and that I was worried about infection - 'suck it and see' was the response. With a week to go my ear was no better with constant gurgling and retained liquid; the pain had increased significantly and my ear was on fire - as predicted I had an infection. Annoyed in that the GPs atypical diagnosis was ineffective I 'demanded' some antibiotics based on the fact that I wasn't about to miss this trip (I'd already cancelled a month prior for other health related reasons) so 2 days before my flight I managed to get hold of some . . .which by the time I got on my flight had zero effect.
The flight was really painful and I was worried that my trip with my eldest teenage child would end up a wash out with a miserable dad and not much skiing . . . .how wrong was I!
On arrival in Zell am See and after a night of poor sleep my sister (a Zell resident who I was lodging with) drove me straight to Zell Hospital on the Saturday morning with a confident smile on her face . . 'they'll sort it' were her very words but I was doubtful based on a decade of NHS failure . .
The Hospital looked more like a Hotel and after checking in a smiling nurse collected me in precisely 5 minutes and I strolled into the Dr Hans office and outlined my history and the current problem. He not only confirmed that I did indeed have an infection but that the antibiotics prescribed were a child’s dose and no way effective for a man of my weight and the level of infection. He then proceeded to select several gleaming, stainless steel, torture looking tools from a side table and went to work! After initially clearing some of the hardened wax with a small fine hook he used ye old high pressure warm water blasting method, followed by the suction method, followed by another hook and grabby tool type method; not only in the infected ear but in the other ear as well . . .
Within 10mins he’d removed two enormous dark and hair infested wax plugs, each the size of the end of my little finger and amusingly exclaimed that I’d given birth to twins! The relief was incredible; not only had the gurgling and relative pain subsided immediately I could now hear out of both ears and with a clarity I’d forgotten existed . . . .after being prescribed some more effective antibiotic drops I told him I loved him and that I would specifically return to Austria to see him for an annual check up; he thought I was joking but I’m not! With a 20min turnaround time I checked back into the reception expecting a ‘standard’ 350 Euro fee that tbf I would have been more than happy to cough up such was the relief; I did have an EHIC card but that had run out in 2016 so I flashed it hoping for leniency. . .’not a problem sir – just email your updated card as soon as you receive it in the UK and we will waive any pending fees’ . . . . . . . . . . .INCREDIBLE!
I appreciate the challenges we face in the UK with the NHS – that’s another conversation; however the speed, efficiency, skill (and experience level) of Dr Hans and the time (let alone total cost) that the whole situation was COMPLETELY sorted compared to years of NHS meddling was a different class; suffice to say I enjoyed the rest of my trip with zero issues and my level of audible awareness (including pole clickers and my own clicking) has amplified 100 fold . . .!
If you ever have a health problem / accident in Zell/Saalbach get down to the hospital pronto with absolute confidence . . .I wonder if I can take out a dedicated Austrian Health policy?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 4-03-24 17:08; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Belch, we've lived in Austria now since last summer. I went to Innsbruck before work one day to get my e-card sorted. It's the card you have to show every time you use the health service and shows that you're covered via your tax contributions.
I then went for lunch with colleagues one of which was Austrian. I said i'd been to get my e-card sorted and she said words to the effect of, "that's all very well, but wait until you actually need to use the service, it's not that good!"
My boss (also English) and I then gave her some info on how the state of the NHS is and she quickly took back her view on the Austrian health system!
Then a couple of weeks ago, I was walking through Mayrhofen with my parents as they were over visiting. We walked past the Dr's and I said, i'm just going to nip in and speak to them about getting a fit to drive certificate to exchange my driving license. So in I went to book an appointment. 20 minutes later I walked out having been seen almost immediately, everything signed off and a certificate in hand to take to the local government for my application.
That would be unheard of in a doctors surgery in the UK!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
If we end up having to pay a little more in the UK
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To get up to Austrian levels of spending "per head" we'd have to pay a LOT more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
If we end up having to pay a little more in the UK
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To get up to Austrian levels of spending "per head" we'd have to pay a LOT more. |
If this was proportionate to income I don't see how this would be a big problem . . .depends on what we value and what we don't.
As it stands the NHS have spent more £ on my rotten ear drums over the last decade (and failed) than the Austrian Health Service have successfully achieved in 20mins (and that includes the cost of me getting there albeit incidentally). . . .something a little more out of kilter in the way our spend is spent methinks . . . . . . . . 
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@Origen, With you on this - efficiency is the key but we just seem so poor on this subject (spending good money after bad) when we should likely be world leaders.
Re Switzerland my son had a serious skiing accident almost a decade ago and I must say that wasn't a particularly pleasant experience; well it was in terms of care right up until they needed faxed evidence in triplicate of our insurance policy as well as an upfront payment with interest added in advance just in case!
In terms of Austria I was just pleasantly surprised at the speed and professionalism of the whole thing hence my post, as well as feeling duped after 10yrs of getting nowhere at home which has disturbed me somewhat and has really bought home the state of our once proud system. I'm a relatively healthy middle aged man but now seriously considering renewing by Bupa policy as I'm in fear of being lobbed on the fire when I hit 75 . . . .that's if they can afford to pay for the tinder and matches!
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@Belch, swskier is talking about the Ecard that residents have...its their health insurance...not the EHIC
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The Zell hospital is excellent. I felt like I should take my shoes off upon entry it was so clean 
If it builds up again in the UK, then take yourself to some chinese medicine place for some ear picking.
GP's in the UK are no longer allowed to treat, only triage & refer. Blame the ambulance chasing lawyers and injury claims.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@munich_irish,
No, it is not politically achievable.
People feel they have a right to treatment because they have ‘paid in’ or something they have previously enjoyed for free.
To give an idea, Austria health spending is about double that of the UK, yet both spend similar GDP as a %
So it is not a case of a little bit more. It would have to be double the taxes people currently pay.
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@Gored, seems like maybe the Austrians have their priorities right, whereas we are continue to act like pompous victorians. . . .
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You know it makes sense.
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Part of the problem is the low priority Brits accord to health, and the very little of their own money they are prepared to pay for it. Some years ago my OH needed open heart surgery and the NHS waiting list was too long. We went BUPA - and extended the mortgage to pay for a "fixed rate" operation. At about the same time a neighbour of my mother's had mithered to the local paper about the long waiting list for cardiac surgery. He was sitting in quite a smart double fronted bungalow with a double garage and had recently paid for the whole frontage to be landscaped and a bright yellow paint job across the front of the house. And a smart new car sat on the drive. And the stupid man, meanwhile, claimed to the journalist who took his photo that he was confined to his chair, on oxygen a lot of the time. If that was all the priority he attached to his health, why should other taxpayers fork out for him? I know people who have waited years for knee or hip replacements, rather than pay themselves, which they could readily afford to do, as they hobble out of their beautifully kept houses and get in their £30k cars. Or won't pay £50 for a private physio appointment - or get an NHS physio but then won't do the exercises they're given.
End of rant.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Belch, I went through similar ordeals every few months for years and the only way to get rid of the ear wax was a blast with the mini pressure washer down at the quacks................until a doctor said off the record to clean out your ears with the horseshoe end of a hair clip regularly, just don't enter the ear far enough that it's painful.
Well, that was at least 10 years ago and I do it daily, not had a problem since. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Belch wrote: |
| @Gored, seems like maybe the Austrians have their priorities right, whereas we are continue to act like pompous victorians. . . . |
Dunno if the service would be different for Austrian residents or not. UK will get a bill for your treatment though. So maybe it’s easy money to claim for the hospital.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lovely.
Any tales about hemorrhoids?
How about a tapeworm?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That's saved for the next episode, you don't want a spoiler.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We remember the excellent treatment our son received in Kufstein hospital over 20 years ago, after being diagnosed with pneumonia in Niederau by the excellent Dr Laner (sp?). He treated him for 24 hours at our hotel then said he was not happy and we should drive him to the hospital. We got a bit lost on arrival and ended up going in a back door, but came across a doctor who sat us down, she wielded her laptop to get all the details entered and directed us to the right department. When we arrived they were able to access all the information immediately and he was admitted for around five days. The treatment he received was first class, and they also found as well as pneumonia that he had really bad blocked sinuses and they were drained every day. We were made to go and watch on the final day, and it was pretty disgusting! One staff member, nutritionist maybe, saw him every day with a flask of some type of herbal tea which she insisted on staying to see him drink. I remember being so impressed with the cleanliness of the whole place and the kindness of all the staff. We gave our travel insurance details and never heard any more from the hospital, but I did enquire later from the insurers and they had settled the bill.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Belch, I too have enormous issues with wax in my ears, compounded by Surfers ear, so extra bits in my ear for the wax to latch on to.
When I'm back in the UK I go to my local Hidden Hearing and gladly pay £60 for the suction, and it can be pretty grim the amount of wax that comes out, but when I come out the feeling is great, I have new ears!
I use the Earol stuff here in France that I brought out with me when I feel the ears getting blocked, and I have my own old fashioned syringe thingy, but try to avoid using that, and in the past I have gone to a French GP for him to clear them out as per what they used to do in the UK for €35.
Think because I sweat like a pig when working out, the sweat crystalises in my ear and the wax latches on to that, which is what the possible prognosis is for me along with Surfers Ear.
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| Origen wrote: |
Part of the problem is the low priority Brits accord to health, and the very little of their own money they are prepared to pay for it. Some years ago my OH needed open heart surgery and the NHS waiting list was too long. We went BUPA - and extended the mortgage to pay for a "fixed rate" operation. At about the same time a neighbour of my mother's had mithered to the local paper about the long waiting list for cardiac surgery. He was sitting in quite a smart double fronted bungalow with a double garage and had recently paid for the whole frontage to be landscaped and a bright yellow paint job across the front of the house. And a smart new car sat on the drive. And the stupid man, meanwhile, claimed to the journalist who took his photo that he was confined to his chair, on oxygen a lot of the time. If that was all the priority he attached to his health, why should other taxpayers fork out for him? I know people who have waited years for knee or hip replacements, rather than pay themselves, which they could readily afford to do, as they hobble out of their beautifully kept houses and get in their £30k cars. Or won't pay £50 for a private physio appointment - or get an NHS physio but then won't do the exercises they're given.
End of rant..... |
Correct.
I had my right hip done via work private medical 12 years ago. My left is not in amazing shape, and - while I am on the NHS list - if it deteriorates badly I will go private.
£15k will be money well spent, regardless of where it comes from.
At my age, I cant really afford 2 or 3 years of inactivity.
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| Gored wrote: |
| Belch wrote: |
| @Gored, seems like maybe the Austrians have their priorities right, whereas we are continue to act like pompous victorians. . . . |
Dunno if the service would be different for Austrian residents or not. UK will get a bill for your treatment though. So maybe it’s easy money to claim for the hospital. |
Don't know specifically for the same issue as the OP, but from my service at getting a health check for a driving license plus what I hear from colleagues, it's far better here than in the UK.
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The UK has a hugely unhealthy population, possibly the main reason it is under such strain.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Belch, are you saying that the Austrian doc carried out a procedure that has been withdrawn for safety reasons in the UK?
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| Origen wrote: |
Part of the problem is the low priority Brits accord to health, and the very little of their own money they are prepared to pay for it. Some years ago my OH needed open heart surgery and the NHS waiting list was too long. We went BUPA - and extended the mortgage to pay for a "fixed rate" operation. At about the same time a neighbour of my mother's had mithered to the local paper about the long waiting list for cardiac surgery. He was sitting in quite a smart double fronted bungalow with a double garage and had recently paid for the whole frontage to be landscaped and a bright yellow paint job across the front of the house. And a smart new car sat on the drive. And the stupid man, meanwhile, claimed to the journalist who took his photo that he was confined to his chair, on oxygen a lot of the time. If that was all the priority he attached to his health, why should other taxpayers fork out for him? I know people who have waited years for knee or hip replacements, rather than pay themselves, which they could readily afford to do, as they hobble out of their beautifully kept houses and get in their £30k cars. Or won't pay £50 for a private physio appointment - or get an NHS physio but then won't do the exercises they're given.
End of rant..... |
I don't like going private in the UK because I don't see value added. So whenever I do it it's abroad. I also feel that if i pay taxes I should be treated fairly. NHS is no different to big corporations, it's not that they don't have money but they just refuse to provide good service which makes the service to cost more.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I don't see value added
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To me, having a painful and disabling hip replaced sooner rather than later is most definitely value added. And my OH could well have died on the waiting list for open heart surgery. People who say "I've paid all my taxes" have often not even paid enough tax to pay for their local highways to be looked after and their bins emptied. And hardly any "ordinary" families with kids pay enough tax to cover the costs of their education. The big tax contributions are made by wealthy individuals and big business.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Origen wrote: |
To me, having a painful and disabling hip replaced sooner rather than later is most definitely value added. And my OH could well have died on the waiting list for open heart surgery. |
That's why I go private abroad, if I can see a doc in the UK with a great diploma who doesn't want to treat me well then I don't feel like paying him privately either.
| Origen wrote: |
| People who say "I've paid all my taxes" have often not even paid enough tax to pay for their local highways to be looked after and their bins emptied. And hardly any "ordinary" families with kids pay enough tax to cover the costs of their education. The big tax contributions are made by wealthy individuals and big business. |
It's another topic to discuss why we have big business earning a lot of money and wealthy individuals. E.g. how would the real estate market look like if there weren't so many small landlords, or if banks allowed people affording to pay rent for years to take mortgage costing less than the rent.
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You know it makes sense.
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@snowdave, Yep - amongst other tools he used ye olde syringing technique (hot water pressure blast) that in the UK used to be carried out by a nurse in surgery but has since been deemed 'unsafe' and replaced with an outsourced (performed by spec-savers at cost) micro-suction method that is waaay inferior and simply doesn't work with hardcore wax. . . I'm assuming the UK method ban is semi-bs (based on woke safety protocols) and in combination with the outsource model its obvs a time / cost saving exercise amongst other things. . .look at the way I was also prescribed fob off child level antibiotics - methinks there's another cap on what drugs they can and cannot recommend as well! I think in terms of procedure the point is the refer 'DOWN' method simply works - ie you see the top man who can make decisions and perform minor surgery on the spot to sort and negate expensive drugs / subsequent bs referrals / 2yr waiting lists . . . . .perhaps like the skilled GPs of yesteryear!
@Whitegold, Hahaha - had a Kidney stone last month and cancelled my previous trip - had I known I'd be seeing Dr Hans I would have gone anyway (true dat)
@king key, I can bore you with the above if you'd like ? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Belch wrote: |
| @snowdave, Yep - amongst other tools he used ye olde syringing technique (hot water pressure blast) that in the UK used to be carried out by a nurse in surgery but has since been deemed 'unsafe' and replaced with an outsourced (performed by spec-savers at cost) micro-suction method that is waaay inferior and simply doesn't work with hardcore wax. . . I'm assuming the UK method ban is semi-bs (based on woke safety protocols) |
Not sure "woke safety protocols" is how NICE works when assessing clinical risk and benefit, but I'm glad you haven't got a perforated eardrum or permanent hearing damage.
Personally, I'll take evidence-based medicine over a shiny hospital any day.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Not sure "woke safety protocols" is how NICE works
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Indeed. A totally daft characterisation.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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find it difficult to believe antibiotics were prescribed at a child's dose too, most children get liquid formulations, capsules and tablets are saved for the adults (although children can be easily taught to swallow tablets and capsules). Clinical systems flag up inappropriate prescribing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As stated on my original post didn't want to get into this but I forgot this is Snowheads where everyone's an expert! In for a penny etc. . . .
@snowdave, @Origen, Ok - admittedly a bit 'emotionally' worded but pls explain why pressure based syringing is now defunct in the UK whereas its not in Austria? This is a blanket policy not an individual one in the UK as far as I'm aware . . .or is it more the level of treatment a GP is able / ready to commit to until a 2yr wait / more senior referral? Personally I'll take preventative / quick and effective action rather than 10yrs of failure! Dont tell me based on NICE (and the UK being the bastion of all medical procedures) you're now inferring all Austrian docs (or this one at any rate) was a quack . . .!? Methinks not . . .my ears are reborn
@Hells Bells, The same applies to drugs - a UK GP can presumably only prescribe a certain 'level' (in this instance a low ineffective dose that the Dr specifically flagged as childs dose; his words not mine and presumably based on mg / frequency of application) for my affliction whereas a UK hospital / more senior doc can and will prescribe double if deemed necessary . . .I have first hand experience of this with both myself and my kids in certain circumstances - why is this?
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There seem to be some urban myths creeping in here. A quick five minute google suggests that ear syringing is NOT prohibited in England! But it's no longer a core service in the NHS.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Origen, Not really an answer and this is not an 'urban myth' as you infer from my perspective - just 10yrs of first hand real-world experience of being fobbed off and made to suffer for presumably more 'worthy' patients! Would be interested to understand (other than NICE as assumed) why its not a core service anymore and when/where its actually available; Harley St perhaps? Please advise?
Like every public service in this country it feels like this is about a £££ saving exercise and very little else - effective and preventative care has fall to do with it!
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| Quote: |
Not really an answer and this is not an 'urban myth' as you infer from my perspective
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I can't make head of tail of that. You claimed that ear-syringing had been deemed unsafe. I looked it up, and my reading suggested that this was not the case.
I was not claiming to have provided an "answer", just information. 
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@Origen, Ok - I'll bite if that's what you want . . I'm beginning to believe you have nothing better to do than nit-pick every post - to what end I've no idea. This post was meant to be vaguely informative and semi-jovial; like a lot of others its been dragged down to the depths of tedium by the mood hoovering massive yet again . . .
I didn't 'claim' anything but there was arguably some assumption inferred - 'syringing was unsafe' were the words of my own UK GP several years ago when I last visited him/her and suction was the only method readily available when referred to by a GP - fact. This has since been superseded by an outsourced model (spec-savers) in more recent years and now elevated (updated info provided on my last visit 3wks ago) to no longer being 'free' to the under 55s. Most semi sane indviduals who are not medically trained go with the expert advice on the whole in life - not google ffs . . .
To cut to the chase and for your benefit - the headlines are (when it comes to waxy, painful ear treatment) UK=2/10 Austria=9.876/10 . . . . . . . 
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September 2020
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54296737
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People suffering from a build-up of ear wax are not entitled to have their ears syringed on the NHS in England, a government minister has confirmed.
Edward Argar said it was no longer one of the core services GPs are obliged to provide.
But he said if the wax was linked to hearing loss GPs could refer sufferers to "audiology services," which can provide hearing aids.
He was responding to an inquiry from Tory MP Andrew Rosindell.
Traditionally, wax was removed by the use of water injected into the ear with a large metal syringe.
The National Institute for Clinical Excellence, which approves treatments for the NHS, now advises GP surgeries to use electronic irrigators or suction devices. If that repeatedly fails, the patient can be referred to "a specialist ear care service or an ear, nose and throat service".
Removal of ear wax is not on the list of core services surgeries must offer, although some groups of local surgeries, or "local clinical commissioning groups", band together to pay for them.
Ear syringing at private clinics can cost around £80. |
Similar article:
https://www.wellingearwaxclinic.co.uk/why-gp-surgeries-have-stopped-providing-ear-syringing/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Several of my elderly friends have had very successful "suction" treatment for earwax costing around £80 - they were quite thrilled with the difference. In fact I was thinking about it myself. It's as cheap as chips compared to the dental treatment we're all paying for. Maybe it doesn't work for everybody - but neither do hip replacements or cataract surgery. I'm having cataract surgery tomorrow - and the risk of serious complications is 1 in 50. According to the NHS. There's plenty of good quality medical information available on the internet.
You did say, @Belch, that syringing had been "deemed unsafe" but perhaps you didn't mean it or were just exaggerating for effect and to have a swipe at NICE. You were being deliberately provocative with your silly remark about "woke safety protocols". If you are going to get upset with people who take issue with rubbish like that, don't write it.
It would be nice if we could still get ear syringing on the NHS but it's not going to keep me awake nights. I'm more concerned about the unavailability of dental treatment, serious staff shortages in midwifery. Or awful delays for cancer diagnosis and treatment.
But glad your ears have been unstopped.
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FAQ
